WOW I did not know alki cells were THAT bad!

[AnthonyMcEwen2014]

Just out playing with the new to me D40A, impressed, I was using the free Alkis that came with it (Bright orange GP ultras, I have no idea what there quality is like as never used them before) and to begin with I was very impressed, a very noticeable difference between turbo and high and it began to get hot after maby 30 second to a min (not hot to touch just warm) yet after maby only 5-10 mins of playingn with it in all modes I could no longer tell any difference between high and turbo!! And it would not create any heat on turbo as it had lost so much output. I never even got to run turbo for the full three mins before cut off.

I'm hoping they were just crap batterys, I know alikis have a very poor discharge curve but dose this sound normal? Maby they were just cheap battery or is this typicall Alki proformance? Woukd a good Duracell cell proform better?

I'm guessing that when I use NiMH it won't have this and will confirm it was poor batterys (I know even NiMH is not as flat as lion but it is much better I belive) and I will be able to flick onto turbo for most of the capctiy of the battery when I want to and it still be brighter than high.

 

[StorminMatt]

(I know even NiMH is not as flat as lion but it is much better I belive)

Unless we're talking about LiFePO4, the discharge curve of Li-Ion batteries is MUCH less flat than NiMH. In fact, the discharge curve of Li-Ion batteries is pretty much a straight line that starts at 4.2V and drops linearly to a knee at around 3.0V (after which it drops REALLY fast). Lights using Li-Ion batteries need to be regulated to accommodate the voltage drop that occurs between a fully charged and a fully discharged battery. LiFePO4 has a discharge curve virtually identical to NiMH.

As far as your light, I've tried running my EA4 on alkaline batteries just for kicks (and because I get plenty of them laying around from buying various lights and other things). I noticed the same loss of performance as the battery is drawn down.

 

[StarHalo]

Save the alkalines for low output/marathon lights, where they can indeed outlast NiMHs and Li-ions..

 

[AnthonyMcEwen2014]

Right that's good to know!, I just confirmed it by running it on NiMH on turbo till step down and when I steped it up just to see it was a s bright as when I started, so I'm happy it was the alkis, I am amazed at how poor they were though can't get over that!!

Err as for lions being less flat than nimhs r you sure??? I though along with there high capacity that's why they were so popular!

I dont know a lot about lion but I'm sure that's why lithium tech batterys are so popular, high capactiy, able to be sadly charges at high C rates (upto 5c in some applications although it shortens life cycles (and although not seem it done iv seen brands stateing that they can be charged St upto 15c!!!) And huge huge huge discharge rate of in some (comenly 65c+) along with very very flat discharge curves up till the last few % of capccity were it drops like a rock. (Although I'm talking about lithuam polymer in hobby grade packs (I assumed lion and life is the same)

Now I'm just really confused.

 

[AnthonyMcEwen2014]

Save the alkalines for low output/marathon lights, where they can indeed outlast NiMHs and Li-ions..

Think I will now, only used them as I got them for free and wanted to see how they profomed, now I know lol! Was just not excepecting such extream result haha!

 

[hiuintahs]

Save the alkalines for low output/marathon lights, where they can indeed outlast NiMHs and Li-ions..

When I discovered NiMH a few years back, I no longer bought alkalines other than for the remotes, clocks and low output items which is the only thing I use them for.

When I discovered low self-discharge Eneloops, I dumped all regular NiMh batteries on Ebay and have never looked back.

My neighbor told me the other day that he has a stock of alkaline batteries for when the crap hits the fan. I just had to laugh. We then had a well needed discussion of what he really needs to get. I guess he is using alkalines in his Jetbeam PA40 that I got him. Probably getting the same performance that the OP talks about with his D40A .

 

[fyrstormer]

Save the alkalines for low output/marathon lights, where they can indeed outlast NiMHs and Li-ions..

Or spend a bit more and get lithium primaries, which will run damn near forever.

 

[StarHalo]

Or spend a bit more and get lithium primaries, which will run damn near forever.

Alkaline will outrun lithium primaries in a low enough drain application, you just have to be mindful for leaks over that very long period..

 

[AnthonyMcEwen2014]

Or spend a bit more and get lithium primaries, which will run damn near forever.

Haha true!!! So damed expensive though...but for back up deffo aggre 100%, make a good option in bug out kits etc???

Still pretty sure me or storminmatt have crossed our wires some how, likely me being silly!

Yheai plan on getting some Enloops sometime,


I do appolgize for my spelling and typos, I have no ides its a combo between me typing to fast and auto correct on my nexus 7.

 

[StarHalo]

but for back up deffo aggre 100%, make a good option in bug out kits etc???

Lithium primaries for storage and extreme temperature use, Eneloops for daily use, and alkalines as nightlight/low drain apps. You should definitely make getting some Eneloops your first priority though, they'll give you much better performance in LED lights and are much more cost-efficient than any other alternative.

 

[AnthonyMcEwen2014]

Yhea I will be. Asap when funds allow, I have cheaper nimhs that will do for now though.

 

[fyrstormer]

For devices that I consider low-drain, such as wireless computer accessories and remote controls, I use Energizer Lithiums. (if alkalines have a longer lifetime given a low-enough drain, then I guess I don't own any devices with a drain that low.) I change the batteries in my wireless mouse and keyboard about once a year instead of once every couple months, and I don't think I've ever replaced a battery in any of my remote controls since switching to lithiums.

Another thing I haven't had to do since switching to lithiums is open the battery door periodically to check for damage from leaked acid.

 

[mcnair55]

There is nothing wrong with the batteries and i buy them for other devices but yours maybe were old stock and coming up to there use by date and as you possibly had them free no worries.

I also buy the professional users version of Duracell as they are cheap as chips and in non retail packaging and are ideal for things like baby AAA and AA key chain lights etc,mainly use Eneloop type for all but still keep a box of each size Alkies in.

 

[Bright+]

For devices that I consider low-drain, such as wireless computer accessories and remote controls, I use Energizer Lithiums. (if alkalines have a longer lifetime given a low-enough drain, then I guess I don't own any devices with a drain that low.) I change the batteries in my wireless mouse and keyboard about once a year instead of once every couple months, and I don't think I've ever replaced a battery in any of my remote controls since switching to lithiums.

Another thing I haven't had to do since switching to lithiums is open the battery door periodically to check for damage from leaked acid.

A set of "heavy duty" will go years in a remote. Lithium and alkaline AAs are about the same capacitor at drain levels of clocks, remotes, etc.

Lithiums are good for high draw stuff, or extremely low load stuff where battery life is limited by the shelf life of regular alkalines.

 

[SwordEdge]

for rechargeables, good charger (maha c9000) and good low self discharge nimh (eneloop, immedion) is a safe bet & long term good choice for almost anything AA-AAA, even high performance flashlights. Li-ions 14500 are for hardcore, tech aware people that know how to use them properly. I think they do offer a more usable power (keep the highest level for longer time on my light), but you will need to find a decent charger and have a li-ion compatible light, like the zebralight sc52 for example. I use the sysmax i2 (white version) with panasonic ur-14500p unprotected in my sc52, and it is a pretty nice setup, but that's not for everybody. This is CFP after all, so this might not apply here, but let's just say I wouldn't buy 14500 for my grandma, for example.

I honestly try to use as little alkalines as I can, since they leak all the time, especially in high drain application.

cheers!

 

[Nano-Oil.com]

For devices that I consider low-drain, such as wireless computer accessories and remote controls, I use Energizer Lithiums. (if alkalines have a longer lifetime given a low-enough drain, then I guess I don't own any devices with a drain that low.) I change the batteries in my wireless mouse and keyboard about once a year instead of once every couple months, and I don't think I've ever replaced a battery in any of my remote controls since switching to lithiums.

Another thing I haven't had to do since switching to lithiums is open the battery door periodically to check for damage from leaked acid.

I totally agree and I am using 3.6v Lithium AA in my Logitech mouse and key board 2 cell 1.5v = 3.3 when brand new.

I made my own dummy since they are hard to find, the thing is I do not charge to full just to make sure,
however I will test soon with a full charge 4.1v on some equipment that I am retiring, my guess is impunity.

On some other devices that needed more juice (amps), I have actually put 2 x 3.6v instead of 2x1.5v alkaline by creating a parallel connection with the cells, hence still 3.6 v 4.1 v charged.
It is also always good to know what a device is really drawing under different conditons and to know how the batteries are responding in terms of voltage drop.

 

[mcnair55]

for rechargeables, good charger (maha c9000) and good low self discharge nimh (eneloop, immedion) is a safe bet & long term good choice for almost anything AA-AAA, even high performance flashlights. Li-ions 14500 are for hardcore, tech aware people that know how to use them properly. I think they do offer a more usable power (keep the highest level for longer time on my light), but you will need to find a decent charger and have a li-ion compatible light, like the zebralight sc52 for example. I use the sysmax i2 (white version) with panasonic ur-14500p unprotected in my sc52, and it is a pretty nice setup, but that's not for everybody. This is CFP after all, so this might not apply here, but let's just say I wouldn't buy 14500 for my grandma, for example.

I honestly try to use as little alkalines as I can, since they leak all the time, especially in high drain application.

cheers!

I have never had a leaker with Alkaline,if you use common sense they should not pose a problem as it is the worlds biggest selling battery and would soon not be if there was an issue.Many people who have the problem leave spent batteries in the device and then the problems occur.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I have never had a leaker with Alkaline,if you use common sense they should not pose a problem as it is the worlds biggest selling battery and would soon not be if there was an issue.Many people who have the problem leave spent batteries in the device and then the problems occur.

You must be very lucky as I have had two surveys about alkaline leakage and most people have had leaks and too many of them have tried their best to limit using them altogether. I've had them leak in almost every type of situation even brand new in the package not past the expiration date. Common sense says don't trust them, devices that you rarely use don't store alkaline batteries in them.

 

[samgab]

Unless we're talking about LiFePO4, the discharge curve of Li-Ion batteries is MUCH less flat than NiMH. In fact, the discharge curve of Li-Ion batteries is pretty much a straight line that starts at 4.2V and drops linearly to a knee at around 3.0V (after which it drops REALLY fast). Lights using Li-Ion batteries need to be regulated to accommodate the voltage drop that occurs between a fully charged and a fully discharged battery. LiFePO4 has a discharge curve virtually identical to NiMH.

As far as your light, I've tried running my EA4 on alkaline batteries just for kicks (and because I get plenty of them laying around from buying various lights and other things). I noticed the same loss of performance as the battery is drawn down.

Right that's good to know!, I just confirmed it by running it on NiMH on turbo till step down and when I steped it up just to see it was a s bright as when I started, so I'm happy it was the alkis, I am amazed at how poor they were though can't get over that!!

Err as for lions being less flat than nimhs r you sure??? I though along with there high capacity that's why they were so popular!

I dont know a lot about lion but I'm sure that's why lithium tech batterys are so popular, high capactiy, able to be sadly charges at high C rates (upto 5c in some applications although it shortens life cycles (and although not seem it done iv seen brands stateing that they can be charged St upto 15c!!!) And huge huge huge discharge rate of in some (comenly 65c+) along with very very flat discharge curves up till the last few % of capccity were it drops like a rock. (Although I'm talking about lithuam polymer in hobby grade packs (I assumed lion and life is the same)

Now I'm just really confused.

StorminMatt is exactly correct.
A Li-ion cell's discharge curve is as he described, decreasing voltage in an almost straight line between 4.2 and 3.0V.
An NiMh cell's discharge curve goes down sharply to about 1.2V, flattens out, goes nearly horizontal for a bit, then curves sharply down towards the end.
Look closely at the discharge curves in these two reviews by forum member HKJ:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Review-of-Eneloop-AA-HR-3UTGB-1900mAh-(White)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Review-of-Panasonic-NCR18650B-3400mAh-(Green)

(Curve graphs belong to HKJ, see his reviews linked above)
Do you see the more horizontal section that the eneloop's discharge curves have? That's what is meant by a "flat discharge curve"
Flat = closer to horizontal for as long as possible. (Not straight, but on a steep diagonal.)
But Li-ion chemistry runs at greater average potential difference than NiMH.

 

[mcnair55]

You must be very lucky as I have had two surveys about alkaline leakage and most people have had leaks and too many of them have tried their best to limit using them altogether. I've had them leak in almost every type of situation even brand new in the package not past the expiration date. Common sense says don't trust them, devices that you rarely use don't store alkaline batteries in them.

I only buy decent Alkies never the cheap ones and as i say never ever had a problem in over 40 years.Shelf queen lights i never use alkies but edc i have no problem using.