Xenide 25w, X990, Shark, or Microfire K3500R ?

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FlashlightN00b

Newly Enlightened
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Nov 25, 2007
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Thanks for putting up with a newbie and reading this.
After some help from Dudemar, MIkeLip, and Patriot36(thanks guys :wave:) I finally have a manageable list for selecting my first HID. After HOURS and HOURS of reading I still have a few questions.

The ListLet me start by saying that weight isn't really an issue and that while smaller is better, it's not real important on my choice. I did like that some of them where adjustable. I've never held or seen any of these, which is where most of my questions are coming from.
  1. I read somewhere that the wolfeyes have increased their light performance and will now out shine the Xenide 25W. With the Xenide at the same price with only fixed focus, Why would one select it a over a Shark?
  2. What changes where made to the Shark2 over the Shark1? At the same price why would I not want the switchable wattage?
  3. Has anyone updated the MicroFire Warrior K3500R bulbs to a lower kelvin rating, or are they even upgradeable? With the output should this even matter?
  4. Has anyone that purchased a X990 wish they would have purchased something else instead? It seems like a real champ for the price. The only drawbacks being the weight(not really important to me) and the SLA batteries. It seems the SLA's are more reliable but less user friendly. Is it really a pain to keep charged? Do they give you two batteries because they suck?
  5. If you where going to leave on a camping roadtrip with an RV, which one of these would you take?
Thanks so much for any input! :santa:
 
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Hey there welcome to CPF!

I have a 990 and the batteries are NiMH and very reliable. That light give out some serious lumens and lights up all you need to see. I give the whole spare battery thing a :thumbsup: since they seem to have worked out well and last right around 70 mins each. Charging is a snap and the light looks impressive to boot. Even though its a few pounds there is a strap to carry it with and it definitely has the cool factor. Not a bad deal at all.
 
If I had to do it over, I would probably get the Acro 990 over the Shark. But even after having typed that, it's a very tough call. The 990 has a much warmer color temperature than either of my Wolf Eyes HIDs - the Shark and Boxer. Very pleasant and easy on the eyes. It's also a very good area light. The Wolf Eyes, not so much. It seems more throw oriented. For practical use,the Acro has plenty of throw, but the breadth of the beam is much better.

Now on the other hand, the Shark has two output levels. Three if you count the LED tailcap, and you should because it is quite bright and more than adequate, really, for most tasks. And it is hugely easier to tote around. The Acro is big and oddly shaped. The Shark has a much longer runtime on 10W, almost the same on 24. The Acro has a spare battery.

Both recharge.

Quality seems about the same. Wolf Eyes really has it together.

So it's a coin toss and heavily dependent on what you want to use it for. If I wanted a work and area light, the Acro would be my choice. The Wolf Eyes is a better car and carry light.
 
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Hi again Flashlightn00b,

These are all great lights, but "brightness" and build quality are what sets each of these apart.

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, so please don't take any offense if you already know about this subjects. Here are few links to provice information about Lumens and HID's:

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/525/sesent/00#Light_Output

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/525/sesent/00#HID

These articles are from Surefire, but they are accurate and relatively unbiased (naturally it's a Surefire article, so a few of their products will be mentioned).

Now that you know a bit more about lumens, we can talk about different lumen measurements. Wolf-Eyes (and many flashlight manufacturers) measures light output in bulb lumens, which is typically overblown and somewhat less accurate(depending on how you look at it). Surefire, however, measures their lights in torch lumens (which is more conservative), therefore it is more precise. Keep in mind accurate lumen measurement takes into account average light output during runtime tests.

With all that said, how does one more accurately find bulb lumen measurements? the answer is this little formula a CPF member came up with:

Torch Lumens= bulb lumens X .65

Since Wolf-Eyes measures their lights in bulb lumens, here's their torch lumen output:

Shark I and II - 1800 bulb lumens

1800 X .65 = 1170 torch lumens

So the Shark I and II is roughly 1200 torch lumens, which is less than the 1500 lumen AE Xenide 25W.

AE appears to more accurately measure their lights in torch lumens, because of their lumen-to-watt ratio is pretty accurate. If they did measure in bulb lumens, then their lights are severely underpowered and dull.

I'll finish this up tonight when I get back from work, I have to go now.:sssh::whistle: Anyone else who wishes to fill in can go right ahead.:thumbsup:

Dudemar
 
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Well, for me, I could narrow it to two lights, the Xenide or x990. The X990 is an absolute cannon of a light as far as performance and tint go. It's also attractive because of the price. In my opinion, it only has one downside and that's the batteries. If you can live with Ni-MH batteries and don't mind the 6lbs of weight, it's a winner.

The Xenide 25W is just an all around winner and really doesn't have any down side to it. Its size is handy, the beam color is nice, and uses li-ion batteries that will stay charged at least 3 times longer than Ni-MH. If I could only own one HID under $500, this would be the one.

Let us know what you get. :)


P.S. The Xenide will look very white next to the K3500. I'd say it's right in between the X990 and the K3500 tint wise.
 
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dudemar said:
Hi again Flashlightn00b,

These are all great lights, but "brightness" and build quality are what sets each of these apart.

Now that you know a bit more about lumens, we can talk about different lumen measurements. Wolf-Eyes (and many flashlight manufacturers) measures light output in bulb lumens, which is typically overblown and somewhat less accurate(depending on how you look at it). Surefire, however, measures their lights in torch lumens (which is more conservative), therefore it is more precise. Keep in mind accurate lumen measurement takes into account average light output during runtime tests.

With all that said, how does one more accurately find bulb lumen measurements? the answer is this little formula a CPF member came up with:

Torch Lumens= bulb lumens X .65

Since Wolf-Eyes measures their lights in bulb lumens, here's their torch lumen output:

Shark I and II - 1800 bulb lumens

1800 X .65 = 1170 torch lumens

So the Shark I and II is roughly 1200 torch lumens, which is about the same as the AE Xenide 25W.

AE appears to more accurately measure their lights in torch lumens, because of their lumen-to-watt ratio is pretty accurate. If they did measure in bulb lumens, then their lights are severely underpowered and dull.
Click to expand...

Wow, I did not even realize the lumens where measured two different ways! Thanks for that little tidbit of information as it will surely be useful.

Any idea what type Microfire uses to measure theirs? I've searched but not turning up any useful results. I really like the size for how much light it puts out. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://deepclue.de/clues/100&sa=X&oi=translate

I swear, this is one of the hardest decisions i've had to make in a long time and I'm not sure why. I wish I could just get them all and be done.:clap:

Patriot36 said:
Well, for me, I could narrow it to two lights, the Xenide or x990. The X990 is an absolute cannon of a light as far as performance and tint go. It's also attractive because of the price. In my opinion, it only has one downside and that's the batteries. If you can live with Ni-MH batteries and don't mind the 6lbs of weight, it's a winner.

The Xenide 25W is just an all around winner and really doesn't have any down side to it. Its size is handy, the beam color is nice, and uses li-ion batteries that will stay charged at least 3 times longer than Ni-MH. If I could only own one HID under $500, this would be the one.

Let us know what you get. :)

P.S. The Xenide will look very white next to the K3500. I'd say it's right in between the X990 and the K3500 tint wise.
Click to expand...

Thanks, thats the kind of input I was looking for. It seems like I keep deciding on the Xenide 25W and then second guess myself because one of the others is brighter, or smaller or... blah blah blah.

My only concerns with the Xenide 25W is that it's not adjustable, a little long compared to my other options, and *only* 1200 lumen. This is where the K3500 keeps coming in. It's smaller with more lumen however it's running a high 7000K kelvin bulb. Since the shark is so close to the Xenide, why wouldn't you pick the Shark-1 with dual mode instead? Build quality or???

Patriot36- I seen you where getting a K3500R tomorrow, since you have experience with the Xenide, would you mind posting here on how they compare to you?


I need to figure out what I'm doing and order this by Monday...:confused:
 
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Well think of it this way, the Acro is like having a nice bright super sunlamp with its warmth and color rendering and the others tend to be higher color temp like the wolf and xenide. Of course, there's always later on down the road for another light :)
 
FlashlightN00b said:
My only concerns with the Xenide 25W is that it's not adjustable, a little long compared to my other options, and *only* 1200 lumen.
Click to expand...

Actually the Xenide 25W is 1500 lumen, sorry about my post above.

http://www.aelight.com/product.php?category=11&id=19

I was thinking so much about my 20W Xenide (1200 lumens) I got sidetracked!

Here are a few body shots I took:

Xenide 20W with stock battery. Length: 11.5 inches (about 30.5 cm) The silver spots are pieces of duct tape I put on, so the carry strap rings won't damage the anodization:
Picture003.jpg


With high capacity battery. At 14.1 inches (35.6 cm) it's 0.6 inches (1.6 cm) longer than the Xenide 25W:
Picture005.jpg


Xenide 20W 11.5 inches (about 30.5 cm), 3D Cell Maglite 12.5 inches (31.7 cm):
Picture014.jpg


Xenide 20W with high-cap battery 14.1 inches (35.6 cm), 3D Cell Maglite 12.5 inches (31.7 cm)
Picture006.jpg


Note that you can take off the rubber end rings:
Picture012.jpg

Picture011.jpg


Xenide broken down to basic components:
Picture010.jpg


Hope you like 'em!

Dudemar
 
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FlashlightN00b said:
Thanks, thats the kind of input I was looking for. It seems like I keep deciding on the Xenide 25W and then second guess myself because one of the others is brighter, or smaller or... blah blah blah.

My only concerns with the Xenide 25W is that it's not adjustable, a little long compared to my other options, and *only* 1200 lumen. This is where the K3500 keeps coming in. It's smaller with more lumen however it's running a high 7000K kelvin bulb. Since the shark is so close to the Xenide, why wouldn't you pick the Shark-1 with dual mode instead? Build quality or???

Patriot36- I seen you where getting a K3500R tomorrow, since you have experience with the Xenide, would you mind posting here on how they compare to you?


I need to figure out what I'm doing and order this by Monday...:confused:
Click to expand...


No disrespect to dudemar, but those pictures don't reflect the output difference of the Xenide at all...which he already mentioned. :) The Xenide is in a completely different realm when compared to single LED lights.

Um..yeah, and the Xenide 25W is actually 1500 lumens, not that with the kind of outputs we're talking about it's any big deal.

Yes, with the shark it's a build quality issue and probably overstated output as well. Not to come across as erm...arrogant or whatever, but I consider the WE HIDs as something to own as fun lights after you already own at least one serious HID. I owned a WE-24W Boxer for a while and it was fun, but I wouldn't want it as my only light.

I'll have the K3500 tomorrow and will be happy to post here about it. I've already yielded to the fact that the 3500 will be of lower material and build quality to the AE lights. It will also have a shorter run-time, have a very cold, bluish beam, and will not throw nearly as far as the Xenide-25. Since I already owned 5 other HIDs, I'm looking for something a little different and want more of a flood beam which the 3500 will provide. The key features of HID are output and throw. If you're looking to experience HID for the first time I suggest getting something that will throw very well while being handy and portable. Many people get large HID spotlights with lead acid batteries for their first HID and they often end up collecting dust in the den once the new wears off. I use three of my HIDs weekly because they're such a handily sized. I really have to emphasize that of the 4 lights you mentioned that the Xenide is really in a class of it's own. The X990 is the king of sheer output in that price range though. If you don't mind a light that's most easily used with a shoulder strap the X990 is mighty impressive.
 
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Not trying to hijack the thread (sorry Flashlightn00b!), but I want to mention I did a few drop tests today with the Xenide. And not just any drop test... I left the light on when I dropped it. Yes I know it's crazy to do this to a brand new light I just bought 2 weeks ago, but I did it for flashaholism!

I dropped the light from 2 inches above my desk a couple of times, and no big deal; nothing happened. It does make a loud thud, though. Then this got me thinking: everyone on CPF talks about how this light is so solid, can it survive a 2+ feet drop? With the light on?! So I held my breath, dropped the light... and with a loud THUD the light went :poof:. A feeling of dread overcame me, thinking the bulb must've shattered on impact. I cautiously picked it up, looked in the bezel and the bulb was still intact. Whew.

Now the tough part- will the light turn back on if I push the button again?:faint: Nervously I pushed the button, and viola- it turned back on.:party: This wasn't the PK version of the durability test of the Beast, but I'd be willing to bet the Xenide would probably survive the same test. Not that I'd be doing that anytime soon!:crazy:

So there you have it, that was my little risky adventure with drop tests today.

Patriot36 said:
No disrespect to dudemar, but those pictures don't reflect the output difference of the Xenide at all... which he already mentioned. :)
Click to expand...

Hey I tried!:p:laughing: They were quick snaps so no big deal.:sssh: I wish I lived near a very dark place...:candle: and in a bigger house.:D It's hard to take good beamshots outside because I live in the city; and in California any time you have a flashlight on at night you're pretty much considered a thief (no exaggeration). Plus for whatever reason my camera was set to take lower resolution pics (640X480), so naturally they look :green:.

Patriot36 said:
Yes, with the shark it's a build quality issue and probably overstated output as well. Not to come across as erm...arrogant or whatever, but I consider the WE HIDs as something to own as fun lights after you already own at least one serious HID. I owned a WE-24W Boxer for a while and it was fun, but I wouldn't want it as my only light.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you on this one. Not trying to sound arrogant as well, but judging from others' posts they mentioned the same thing. WE's are neat lights, but when it comes down to business I'll take the Xenide anyday.

Patriot36 said:
I'll have the K3500 tomorrow and will be happy to post here about it.
Click to expand...

Beamshots?:D:poke:

Patriot36 said:
I'm looking for something a little different and want more of a flood beam which the 3500 will provide.
Click to expand...

Just curious, but did you try the beam diffuser for the Xenide?

Dudemar
 
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dudemar said:
Just curious, but did you try the beam diffuser for the Xenide?

Dudemar
Click to expand...


Good point. Oddly enough I don't own a diffuser and haven't tried one yet. I can imagine a fabulous result though. When I said that I wanted to try something different, I was also looking for another light and the K3500 sounded interesting. Although I don't expect AE quality out of the Warrior, it is unique when considering it's size and probably overstated output. But hey, even if it's 2600 or 2800 lumens that could be interesting and I thought I'd test one out. If I don't think I can use it then you'll see it in the MarketPlace shortly. I expect to see it any hour now...........
 
Did it arrive yet?... I am even excited for you. haha.

Does anyone have pictures of the rear of the Xenide 25 (or 20w as I'm guessing they're the same)? Do I need to purchase the stand charger as well ? I've looked everywhere, but I can only find rear pics of the older version.
 
FlashlightN00b said:
Did it arrive yet?... I am even excited for you. haha.

Does anyone have pictures of the rear of the Xenide 25 (or 20w as I'm guessing they're the same)? Do I need to purchase the stand charger as well ? I've looked everywhere, but I can only find rear pics of the older version.
Click to expand...

Hi Flashlightn00b,

Yeah I'm excited about it too.=) Hopefully he'll post comparison beamshots tonight or tomorrow.=) Regarding the stand charger, no you don't need it to charge the light. It's a nice option, though. Here's a few pics of the tail end:

Sorry about the mess in the background.
Picture001.jpg

Picture017.jpg


The charger:
Picture016.jpg


Dudemar
 
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It came today. I'm just going to copy and paste from an earlier post in a different thread. Overall my opinion about it is positive exceeding some of my expectations.

Ok, I received the light this afternoon. I played with it for about an hour and decided to do a run-time test that just now finished at 52 minutes. It flickered and I quickly shut it off. It got very warm during the test and I had to aim a fan at it. It may run a bit longer that 52 minutes because I was playing with it before I decided to do the test. I'll do another run-time test this weekend.

The finish is nice, the build quality seems to be fairly good, the lumen output is very good and it's comfortable to hold with it's slightly tri-sided handle. The insides of the light are clean without any dust behind the lens or machining materials in the threads or other places. I'm happily surprised that the reflector is less frosted than it appears in other pictures that I've seen. It's not smooth and polished like the AE's or X990 but it much more reflective than say.....a MOP reflector.

Throw is slightly better than I expected for this light, no doubt because of the decent properties of the reflector. The on-off switch is way to light. It's maybe a half or a third of the pressure that I think it should be. I would not put this light anywhere that it could accidentally be switched on because it wouldn't take much at all. This is a fairly bad fault as far as I'm concerned. The focus range is small but does give the user a setting preference which is nice. I probably won't be adjusting it in and out during use, but I've already set it to the shape of beam that I like. So, from this aspect the focus is actually nice and everything locks down tight after setting.

It's not as bright as the X990, as predicted but is brighter than the AE PL24/S or Xenide 25W. I'm going to rough guess it about about 2800 lumens, but honestly it's hard to tell. Lets just say that the X990 is quite noticably brighter and with much better color rendition. Yes, it is very blue, so blue that it's my bluest HID. The charger stand is silly along with the plug that plugs into it. It's so lose that it keeps popping out by itself because of subtle twist tension in the cord that plugs into the base. A car charger with this design would be idiocy because it would never charge while driving.


My three favorite things so far:
Very good output.
Great size and is comfortable in my hand.
Adjustable focus that is most useful as a user preset.

My three most disliked features:
Very blue beam.
On-off switch pressure is far too weak for a high power HID.
Silly charging base, loose charging plug, heavy built-into handle batteries.
 
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One thing about AE lights. They are in Oregon and do provide parts and service is a very timely manner. They even answer the phone and reply to their Email. Also there are several very fine distributors on the web that sell the AE products and carry the products and support supplies.
With all that said I also enjoy the K3500R, next on my list is an Xenide and hand off the AE24 to one of my kids.
 
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