LunaSol 20 advisory & update !!

Actually mine DOES spend time in the water. But Not now that we have a potiential issue the light will stay out of the water.
Yaesumofo

The Coach said:

Thanks for the heads up Don, but like yaesumofo, my light doesn't spend any time in the water. When I go to NYC, I just use the bridge instead of swimming. :devil:

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a low flood is of primary importance and the LunaSol has no peers at present

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+1

In my world, low is used most of the time, high when needed. No other way to have low flood & high spot without two light sources, AFAIK.

yaesumofo said:

Actually mine DOES spend time in the water. But Not now that we have a potiential issue the light will stay out of the water.
Yaesumofo

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, and I was going to wait until next year to learn how to read. I misread your post. :devil:

Don, it takes a lot of courage to make an announcement like this, so major kudos for you.

I just dunk my LS20 into the sink for 10 minutes, and it seems fine. *whew* ... and now the light seems brighter with all the fingerprints removed :D

Don. Does this mean that those of us with first fun sundrops may be able to safely use rechargeable cells in our lights? Maybe?
Yaesumofo

McGizmo said:

Hi guys, I need to test these but it looks like the higher Vf of the Nichia will allow for the Snowdrop to be driven by R123 as well as primaries.

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McGizmo said:

I suppose there is a silver lining here as this planed wave of 25 LunaSol 20's would have had NG drivers on the Osram Dragon just like the first wave and these lights are for primary CR123 battery use only. With this set back, I may be in a position to use a buck/boost driver on the Osram opening the light up to use with R123 cells as well. In the mean time, I will build out 25 SunDrops using the NG converters and I need to test these but it looks like the higher Vf of the Nichia will allow for the SunDrop to be driven by R123 as well as primaries.

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Whatever the reason, if a longer lead time means the next waves of these lights are compatible with 3.7v rechargeables, then it's time well spent.

Now, can we also do something to alleviate the bluish tint cast by the Nichia ring on the LS20, please? The flood LEDs on the LS27 are great, so remind me why there was a need to change things up with the LS20.

I have a Lunasol 20 on the way.
Are these compatible with LiFePO4's? Those have a nominal voltage of 3.2.
What is the max voltage for this converter?

yaesumofo said:

Don. Does this mean that those of us with first fun sundrops may be able to safely use rechargeable cells in our lights? Maybe?
Yaesumofo

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Yaesumofo,
Yes, you guys with SunDrops (Where did I come up with SnowDrops? :ohgeez:) may well find that the LED is not overdriven if powered by a R123. If you have a light meter, I suggest you take a lux reading off a primary CR123 and then take another lux reading at the same distance with a fresh R123 powering the converter. If the readings are similar then I would guess the overhead of the NG is sufficient to cover the Vin being above Vf of the LED. This has been the accepted "rule of thumb" in the past with the luxeons and Cree's but the low Vf of the Osram caught me by surprise and it was then that I decided to warn off the use of the NG on R123's. It turns out that these Dragons can handle 1 amp of current so you probably won't do any damage to them if you do run the LunaSol 20 on a R123. You will likely notice the Dragon is quite a bit brighter and your run time will likely suffer. You could well be above the regulated drive level for much of the R123's duty cycle. :shrug: As for the R123's with the lower voltage, you will be good to go and in regulation; no problem.

Straylight,

The LS27 uses Nichia 310CS LED's. I don't know the color bin but would guess it was B1. The LS20 uses 310DS which have a slightly tighter viewing angle and I got B2 color bin with these which is a higher color temp. I already have these LED's and have made up the preassemblies with the LED's mounted in the reflectors and soldered together. I bought a thousand of these LED's. I have days in assembly work already. I switched to the DS because they have lower Vf than the CS as well as greater flux. They are more efficient than the CS. In dropping from 6 LED's down to 3 in the LunaSol 20, I felt it was a good move to go for the brighter and next generation 310. Actually, I wasn't aware that we had a problem or issue here until you brought it up. Probably one of those meetings I missed... :p

I actually did try combining the Dragon with the 310CS of the LS27 ring and the warmth of the 310CS in contrast with the coolness of the Dragon brought out the difference in both quite noticeably. I am personally quite happy with the balance in tint of the Cree's with the 310CS and the Dragon with the 310DS. When you have two light sources present, their differences is much harder to ignore than adapting to the tint of a single source, IMHO. At any rate, at this point, they are what they are. Had the LunaSol 20 come out with the Rebel as initially planned and designed, I might well have benched the 310DS B2 and sought additional LED's or a warmer tint because the Rebels I got were on the warm almost greenish cast. As it turned out, the Rebels got benched.


Now, to the topic of this thread, I took a test LS20 out for a swim this afternoon with the larger diameter window in place and it came through without a hint of leakage. This came as no surprise but I did try to set the window off center as much as possible. With the smaller diameter windows, I am convinced shoving them off center to one side would invite a flood. I will get some larger diameter windows on order ASAP. When I do get them in hand, I will be happy to send off a new window with a pair of O-rings to any of you present LS20 owners who would like to get them. If any of you would rather return the light for me to exchange the windows we can do it that way too. If you can wait until the time comes, that would be great. Any list I tried to start now could be lost or messed up before it could be put to function. If any of you want quicker action, the only thing I can suggest is that I purchase some mineral glass windows from Frei-Borel of the proper size and I can get these to you for the interim?

Thank you Don. I am sure there will be a number of people happy to hear that it is OK to use RCR123a's in both the Sundrop as well as the Lunasol 20.
IMHO the action you are taking is extremely sufficient. No interim solution is necessary especially due to the fact that there would be great additional expense. Not to mention the fact that it ends up being 2x the amount of work.
Again IMHO there is no need for this. I can wait for the permanent solution.
Obviously I can only speak for myself on this. I doubt that you will have many people looking for an interim solution.
Yaesumofo

Glad to hear the rest of the testing went well!!!!

can we also do something to alleviate the bluish tint cast by the Nichia ring on the LS20

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As picky as I am (99th percentile:crackup:), the tint of the Nichia's is not an issue for me. After reading StrayLight's post, the room lights were turned off & the Nichia ring used to light everything in my office. The white door did show a cool color temp, but everything else looked 'normal'.

Most of what I look at is not white, so the Nichia color temp works fine for me.

Does the OK for R123's apply to the LS20 as well as the Sundrop?

Andy,
As I stated above:

It turns out that these Dragons can handle 1 amp of current so you probably won't do any damage to them if you do run the LunaSol 20 on a R123. You will likely notice the Dragon is quite a bit brighter and your run time will likely suffer. You could well be above the regulated drive level for much of the R123's duty cycle.

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I don't advise using the LunaSol 20 with a 3.6 (4.2 fresh) Li-Ion because it will be driving the LED well above the designed level (425 mA) but the LED presumably can handle the higher current. I don't know what the thermal ramifications are. If you insist on using R123's then I would recommend the ones that are 3.3V instead. :shrug:

McGizmo said:

I switched to the DS because they have lower Vf than the CS as well as greater flux. They are more efficient than the CS. In dropping from 6 LED's down to 3 in the LunaSol 20, I felt it was a good move to go for the brighter and next generation 310.

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I figured there was a reason, I just didn't know what it was. I can appreciate the investment that has already gone into the LS20 assemblies with the existing parts.

McGizmo said:

Actually, I wasn't aware that we had a problem or issue here until you brought it up. Probably one of those meetings I missed... :p

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I doubt you miss much when you're designing and building these lights. I can only assume the tint lottery is at play here, because my LS20 (since sold away) cast a decidedly bluish tint from the Nichias, both in comparison to the Dragon and to every other McGizmo light I had on hand: Ti Mule, LS27, Ti PD-S, Ti 27PD-S, 27LT-S

McGizmo said:

I actually did try combining the Dragon with the 310CS of the LS27 ring and the warmth of the 310CS in contrast with the coolness of the Dragon brought out the difference in both quite noticeably. I am personally quite happy with the balance in tint of the Cree's with the 310CS and the Dragon with the 310DS. When you have two light sources present, their differences is much harder to ignore than adapting to the tint of a single source, IMHO.

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I would have liked to see that comparison in person. Oh, well. As you say, it is what it is. Thanks for the information.

McGizmo said:

. . .

Now, to the topic of this thread, I took a test LS20 out for a swim this afternoon with the larger diameter window in place and it came through without a hint of leakage. This came as no surprise but I did try to set the window off center as much as possible. With the smaller diameter windows, I am convinced shoving them off center to one side would invite a flood. I will get some larger diameter windows on order ASAP. When I do get them in hand, I will be happy to send off a new window with a pair of O-rings to any of you present LS20 owners who would like to get them. If any of you would rather return the light for me to exchange the windows we can do it that way too. If you can wait until the time comes, that would be great. Any list I tried to start now could be lost or messed up before it could be put to function. If any of you want quicker action, the only thing I can suggest is that I purchase some mineral glass windows from Frei-Borel of the proper size and I can get these to you for the interim?

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OK. Don, if I understand you properly, you are saying that in due time, after you have the new larger windows, we have the option to send our LS20 back to you for a window replacement? It will be the same head, the same electronics, the same everything, except for a new saphire lens and seals, correct?

I definitely do not want to return my LS20 for a refund, and I definitely DO want to keep the NG driver, but I also do not want to attempt to change the lens and seals myself. I assume I am correct in thinking that you can do this for me in due time, and for some charge for return shipping and your time.

For the record, I have exposed my LS20 to running water, but not submerged it for any length of time, and so far, there is absolutely no indication of water entry into the light.

Sorry this issue has reared its ugly head on you, Don. This really sucks, but you are handling it in the best way possible, in my opinion.

js said:

OK. Don, if I understand you properly, you are saying that in due time, after you have the new larger windows, we have the option to send our LS20 back to you for a window replacement? It will be the same head, the same electronics, the same everything, except for a new saphire lens and seals, correct?
..........

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Yes, I will be getting new windows mid August as an ETA. They are going to try to get a partial shipment to me sooner but this remains to be seen. As soon as I get them, I will make them available to current LS20 owners either as a DIY replacement or I will be happy to do the replacement for you. It will only be the window that is replaced. I can provide a simple tutorial at the time for those wanting to do this themselves as it is a pretty simple and straight forward process.

OT but an interesting side note, when I asked for a quote, I mentioned that I would be willing to pay a premium if the lead time could be reduced. I was quoted the mid August ETA and the price had almost doubled over the price of the windows that are presently in the lights. I followed up with a request for "regular" price and normal lead time. I was informed that the price was "regular" and that they were just going to expedite the order best they could. Labor and material costs keep going up (these are made off shore) and I guess this is in terms of the Yen itself and compounded by the weakening dollar. I was on the phone with my friend at Lunsford Racing getting more of the Ti screws a couple days ago and he mentioned that some of his customers have commented that they are now sourcing more components domestically because they are now cheaper than off shore, with freight factored in. Interesting times we live in...

McGizmo said:

Yes, I will be getting new windows mid August as an ETA. They are going to try to get a partial shipment to me sooner but this remains to be seen. As soon as I get them, I will make them available to current LS20 owners either as a DIY replacement or I will be happy to do the replacement for you. It will only be the window that is replaced. I can provide a simple tutorial at the time for those wanting to do this themselves as it is a pretty simple and straight forward process.

...

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It's simple to change out the window? Really? I thought opening up the head of the LS20 was a big deal--non simple process? If it truly is simple, I'd be happy to do it myself. I just assumed it would be a big deal . . . :thinking:

As for the Yen, I thought that it was pegged to the dollar so that when the dollar changed, the yen changed exactly in accord to keep the yen to dollar exchange rate at a constant value . . . Interesting. Shipping, of course, is another matter. But yes, indeed these are interesting times. Soon more and more things will have to be made domestically, and the cost of electronics and computers and the like, as measured in USD, will rise dramatically. We're probably already seeing this, I would bet. But, maybe not yet.

Don,

Also, I'd like to pay for the new saphire lens for my LS20. Please PM or post what the cost per unit of these was for you, and give each of us the opportunity (if we want) to pay for our replacement lenses.

js said:

Soon more and more things will have to be made domestically.

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Just think, maybe one day we'll be able to carry a flashlight that is truly Made In The USA!! :nana:

js,

Changing out the window is straight forward.

You don't need to take the driver end apart, just the o-ring and window.

If you are looking down the business end of the light, you can see the black retaining o-ring that is holding the window in. Just remove that, replace the window, and press in the retaining o-ring.

The design is very elegant IMO.