Apple Admits! report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

While Browsing, I landed on this page
Further to complicate things iPod maker responds to "slave" labor assertions

I never knew, I pods were made in China !... no wonder, we are seeing loads of iPod clones ... for 1/10 price.

UPDATE: 23/08/2006
Apple Admits Excessive iPod Hours

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

Yep made in China...remember all the problems when the product was fresh on the market ? I work in an electronics retail store part time/casual and had quite a few problems with Apple products (heck, even Creative's early products had alot of problems). The lower end products such as the Ipod shuffle (budget) continues to have problems. That said though, now that they are fairly mature, there aren't many problems with the nano and above (likewise for the Creative players), but those 1/10 price mp3 players are a nightmare.

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

Now I need to compile a list of guys who dont manufacture in China! ....not that I have anything against China..... but after reading slave thing...:sigh:

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

I didn't know they were made in China , too.
I know the first generation one's were made in Ireland.
That's why you need that applecare warranty and Ipod buyer's don't mind paying for it. It's the only product where the users don't mind if their item is defective. (at least, from what I've read on head-fi)

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

ViReN said:

...I never knew, I pods were made in China !... no wonder, we are seeing loads of iPod clones ... for 1/10 price.

Click to expand...

Everything is made in China these days. They're the new version of 'Made in Japan'. And it's largely the only way to pull down a profit while manufacturing something large scale ( and still be able to keep prices at a reasonable level ). I'm not so much condoning the conditions, just stating the current business climate so to speak.

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

There are those of us who would debate the "( and still be able to keep prices at a reasonable level )" statement when it comes to the IPod and it's various iterations.

I have always felt they are overpriced in relation to the competition. My daughter had a Toshiba Gigabeat with 10 times the storage of an IPod at the same price level.

That said, she found that she actually prefers the Nano to any of the others, go figure!

Bill

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

I have it on pretty good authority (directly from Creative) that all of the Creative disk based players are manufactured in Creative's own factories (not outsourced like Apple's) in neighboring Malaysia (Creative is based on the same island in the city/state of Singapore.) I was further advised that early Creative players were manufactured right in their Singapore headquarters, until the demand exceeded their capacity.

As far as I know, iPods have always been made in China (it says so right on the box). I didn't know that their manufacturing was contracted out to a third party assembler though. It's amazing that there aren't counterfeit iPods floating around all over the world. On the other hand, there just might be and we're just not aware of it yet.

From what I can see, it looks like most of the other manufacturers also have their players made in China as well. The exception might be flash memory based players; seems that many of those are also made in Korea.

ViReN said:

Now I need to compile a list of guys who dont manufacture in China! ....not that I have anything against China..... but after reading slave thing...:sigh:

Click to expand...

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

Lower production costs is more likely to equate to more profit for the manufacturer than to 'keep prices reasonable' for the consumer. As I understand it, Apple keeps their pricing on a tight rein going to retailers so that they can't even think of discounting the pricing. Even a retail discount giant like Wal*Mart can only leverage a few cents off of Apple's list prices, and just about everyone else is forced to sell them at full-bore retail. Seems that the motivation for a retail merchant to sell iPods isn't in the actual sale of the iPod, but rather in the sale of the accessories where there are huge profit margins.


EDIT: Thought these links might also be of interest
Pictures
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1815

More on "iPod City"
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1799

Sounds more like the "prison labor slave camps" that China was alledged to have used in earlier years for the production of exported products.

Knight Lights said:

There are those of us who would debate the "( and still be able to keep prices at a reasonable level )" statement when it comes to the IPod and it's various iterations.

Click to expand...

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

ViReN said:

While Browsing, I landed on this page
Further to complicate things iPod maker responds to "slave" labor assertions

I never knew, I pods were made in China !... no wonder, we are seeing loads of iPod clones ... for 1/10 price.

Click to expand...

The iPods are probably on the assembly line that's right next to where the LRI Protons are being made.

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

You're not that far off. The Foxconn factory is in Shenzhen, (in Guangdong province north of Hong Kong) where many of the Chinese flashlights that are sold on this site are also manufactured.

Foxconn is a trade name for Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. Ltd., a Taiwanese ODM (Original Design Manufacturer) who also manufactures products for Dell and H-P. The Shenzhen factory where the abuses are alleged to have occurred was opened in 1993.

this_is_nascar said:

The iPods are probably on the assembly line that's right next to where the LRI Protons are being made.

Click to expand...

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

This is pretty debatable, because no one knows whos lying or not, and the truth might just lie in the gray area.

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

It's not a big secret that Chinese employers abuse their employees and pay them substandard wages. And it doesn't seem to matter where they're located, whether it be in the People's Republic, Taiwan, Hong Kong, a sweatshop garment factory in San Francisco or New York's Chinatown districts, or one of the Taiwanese front organizations in Silicon Valley.

Now one of the articles did indicate that workers that are alleged to being abused are provided with housing and meals (albeit in a prison like setting) and part of their compensation may be held back to pay for those expenses. Kinda like the company-store setup that was common in of some of the American coal mining towns in the East, or how the arrangements that some farmers may have for undocumented workers who pick their crops.

Navck said:

This is pretty debatable, because no one knows whos lying or not, and the truth might just lie in the gray area.

Click to expand...

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

and my one-man boycott of Fenix/LRI/SUrefire knockoffs/whaever else they make with really cheap labor continues....

the rest of CPf can have fun paying 50 bucks for a Surefire knockoff when the worker is paid 2 dollars a day...

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

I think we finally agree on something Though that wasn't originally the reason for my not buying a Fenix product.

These are actually pretty bad cases of Chinese abusing Chinese, and you can't even blame the communist government here. Most of these companies that are accused of abusing their employees are capitalists from the anti-Communist island of Taiwan. Seems that human rights may be fine for political rhetoric, but would not be applicable when it presents the potential of interfering with profit margins.

And the Shenzhen area is one of the higher paying areas since it is one of the manufacturing centers.

You might find this site http://www.chinalaborwatch.org to be pretty interesting as well.

270winchester said:

and my one-man boycott of Fenix/LRI/SUrefire knockoffs/whaever else they make with really cheap labor continues....

the rest of CPf can have fun paying 50 bucks for a Surefire knockoff when the worker is paid 2 dollars a day...

Click to expand...

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

I completely agree with ViReN's take on this:

ViReN said:

Now I need to compile a list of guys who dont manufacture in China! ....not that I have anything against China..... but after reading slave thing...:sigh:

Click to expand...

But, at the same time, at the risk of not sounding PC (OH, NO!) this cannot be looked at in a vacuum. Unless they actually are being held, against their will and forced to labor they are not slaves. Strange as it may seem to some, this opportunity presented to them, however distasteful it may appear to many here may actually represent the only opportunity available to these people to improve their lot in the corrupt dysfunctional system that they live under. Just think about that for a moment.

Sometimes comparisons of our own economic systems and those of others need closer scrutiny to see what really is going on. (Not that I KNOW what is going on) I recall a few years ago TV's Cathy Lee Gifford was crucified for labor practices in her factories in Central America that just happened to be the best route out of a really bad economic situation for her employees. Perhaps the only route. I don't even like Cathy Lee.

My point is that unless we know that these people have guns pointed at their heads and that this is not the best (or only) chance that they have of putting food into their kids stomachs we should refrain from destroying it for them. Don't second guess their judgement from your soft chair until you know that they weren't called slaves just because today was a slow news day.

Having said that I still think ViReN's idea has a great deal of merit.

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

I recall reading a while back that residents in some central american areas were heartbroken when the local factories were closed due to US pressure over sweatshop practices. The only alternative was working longer days for half the money digging clay for the local pottery shops. Granted you can't assume this in all cases, but it's an issue.

The attitude of many CPF'ers towards offshore manufacturing and intellectual property rights always surprises me. Given what frequently goes on, I'd expect members to be jumping for joy that illicit iPods could be bought for $50, since they're from the same manufactuer and aren't violating any Chinese village laws. Happens enough with lights.

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

Abtomat has a point. We might consider whether this is better than the workers' other choices. When they had the scandal of child laborers (for Nike, I think) in Thailand, they closed those plants and sent the kids home. I read that many of them ended up in child prostitution instead.

I'm not saying that's the case here, it's just that (I think) lots of these stories are PR maneuvers by economic interests trying to affect who gets first world spending money, i.e. big labor, manufacturing competitors, corporations, etc. and are not sincere attempts to improve anyone else's lot in life.

And I don't know the truth, or how to find out the "truth" easily, so I usually just go on as before...

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

One could argue that the reason people are in the city taking these jobs even at lower than American minimum wage is that they prefer it to subsistence farming and that the best thing you can do for a developing country is to NOT boycott their goods, but with China other governmental issues come into play as well.

But before anyone just assumes that Apple went for the lowest priced manufacturer running a slave labor camp, you might want to actually read around a bit on the reporting newspapers website and see just what kind of rag it is

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk

Then wait till Apple has a look rather than just assume that made in china means made by slave labor. If they find any of that is true I have every confidence that the company will loose the contract. Apple has changed manufacturers over a lot more trivial matters than price and this sort of thing before!

I really liked the article where foxcon refuted the mail on sunday report. If you haven't read it you should. Beyond all those absolutely wrong "facts" in the article the other reason why it will not turn out to be true is that Apple has a LOT of local oversight on staff at their overseas manufacturing companies. People that check every batch and help to make sure that it's actually being put together to spec. They would know.

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

The allegations here are claims of violations to China's minimum wage standards, hours of work, and established standards for employees, not a comparison with that of US standards. Additionally, it is not a case of taking farm workers and making factory workers out of them, this is in an area where manufacturing is actually booming.

The allegations of excessive work hours is probably of concern, since the workday in China is apparently 8 hours. And Chinese employers usually do not pay overtime (even those in the U.S. frequently circumvent those requirements.)

The company, Foxconn, that is being accused, is not a fly-by-night player, they all but control H-P's iPAQ market, they manufacture components for Dell systems, and they're producing the world's supply of iPod disk and flash memory players. Additionally, this company has recently started to go to direct marketing of computer motherboards and the like under their own name.

The prison like environment may indeed be normal for Chinese companies. There are Chinese companies with manufacturing facilities in the U.S. that generally have a great level of distrust for their assembly employees, probably because they're afraid of loss due to the low wages that they pay. It is not unusual for the companies in the U.S. to have metal detectors at the doors where the employees must submit to searches on their way in and out of the facilities. Not just assembly plants either, some of the Asian based compamies have the same kind of security measures in place even for their warehouses. While there isn't much manufacturning left in the Silicon Valley, there are still some environments where these conditions do exist (and no, those measures are not for materials that may be sensitive to national security.)

Re: Apple investigates report on 'slave' conditions in China iPod factory

Brighteyez said:

I have it on pretty good authority (directly from Creative) that all of the Creative disk based players are manufactured in Creative's own factories (not outsourced like Apple's) in neighboring Malaysia (Creative is based on the same island in the city/state of Singapore.) I was further advised that early Creative players were manufactured right in their Singapore headquarters, until the demand exceeded their capacity.

As far as I know, iPods have always been made in China (it says so right on the box). I didn't know that their manufacturing was contracted out to a third party assembler though. It's amazing that there aren't counterfeit iPods floating around all over the world. On the other hand, there just might be and we're just not aware of it yet.

From what I can see, it looks like most of the other manufacturers also have their players made in China as well. The exception might be flash memory based players; seems that many of those are also made in Korea.

Click to expand...

I wish UG was working. I had posted links there, I cannot find them now .. there are loads of iPod Clones available, in fact, exact same look and feel...!