U bin or T bin - does it matter?

Been thinking about getting a U**J to replace the T**H in my FluPIC-equipped L2P. Then got thinking would there really be any noticible difference. For instance, level 12 with the T bin gives me about 85 mins before direct drive kicks in, using a rechargeable CR123. The J vf rating of the U bin would give less run time, with more brightness, but I could drop the level down from 12, to say a 10 which could then give equal brightness with similar runtime to the T bin.

As far as I can see, the only measurable benefit to fitting a U bin would be to get extra brightness, at maximum level with the reduced runtime.

Hope this all makes sense - had a hell of a day at work and have been unwinding with a couple of beers. :buddies: :drunk:

I wouldn't swap it out. You'll get about 14% more brightness at a lower runtime.

Only a lightmeter would notice the difference.

Jeff

Hello dirobesh

Another advantage can be the tint. With a change you can get a better tint, depends what you prefer.

Best regards

____
Tom

xpitxbullx - i reckon you're right, it hardly seems worth it. Long John, you raise a good point - the tint of my TWOH is superb, the UWOJ could well be not as good, which would render any perceived increase in brightness irrelevant - i hadn't thought of that. Guess you guys have saved me a bit of money. :goodjob:

A typical UxxJ gives a very similar lumens/watt as a TxxH does. Due to latitude within each bin, you could actually end up with a less efficient light producer if you make the swap. Its all part of the Luxeon Lottery.

I've done two TxxJ to UxxJ swaps so far. One yielded a 40% increase in lumens at the same power, the other only about 15%. It all depends on where the original T bin sits within its bin, and where the U bin sits within its bin.

U bins give you the confidence in knowing that your LED is at least in the higher T's...

I can see a HUGE difference in a lower end T compared to a high flux T bin...

Therefore if you get a U... you will know its as bright as the highest T bins... yea... you'll get less runtime... but thats why you have a flupic... you can lower the brightness if your battery needs are needed... for the most part people keep their li-ions topped off so a U-bin will give you the brightness when you need it...

Another aspect of U bins is to go with a UxxK rather than the UxxJ... according to some people's flux test... the K's come out brighter... (however with even less runtime and more heat)... theres a thread currently on the Mod. Light forum about the two Vf's... From what I gathered is that in DD mode the K's were brighter... but in regulation its up to the Flux rating of the LED... however the tests that have been done comparing the two were with a 'constant' 1amp power source... so wouldn't that be regulated?

U is always better than T ... in a new light and if the difference is worth the $$ for you.
In an already existing light though ... I'd not invest time, money and risk for such a LED swap. Just not worth it. Wait some more untill a significant upgrade can be made.
IMHO of course.
bernie

I'd agree that this is likely a low bang-for-the-buck/minute effort.

Maybe a rule of 2's is a good standard, 2 bins in flux and same vf or 1 flux bin and 1 vf bin, otherwise it just doesn't seem worth it.

so does anyone know for sure if the UxxK's are brighter than the UxxJ's under regulation?

or is it just up to the luxeon lottery of what flux you get

In case of current regulation the two have the same brightness (pending the LOTTERY), but the UxxJ will run longer.
In case of direct drive the UxxJ is brighter.

jar3ds said:

so does anyone know for sure if the UxxK's are brighter than the UxxJ's under regulation?

or is it just up to the luxeon lottery of what flux you get

Click to expand...

I'll bet that the average UxxK is a bit brighter at a given current than the average UxxJ, but there is so much sample to sample variability that it wouldn't be a safe predictive tool for any individual U bin LED.

I think I understand the discussions here but I cannot come to a conclusion that U vs T does not matter. If U vs T does not matter, then presumably T vs S does not matter, then....

I absolutely agree with jar3ds that U provides assurance of brightness greater than T and is therefore of real value. I would not be able to ask for more.

In my mind the lux lottery is more of a reason to go with U over T than to stick with T, IF brightness has high value to you. True that the best T would match the poorest U, so it's possible for a given single choice/purchase that the money spent going with the U was not a good bet (if you unluckly got the worst U, and if you had gone with T you had gotten the best T). But for the majority of times you play this scenario out you would see a noticable difference, comparing a random U to a random T. You are assured of the best T brightness or greater by going with the U, and you are assured you will not get a low brightness T which is basically a good S.

It all still seems a little acedemic as I am not a modder and I know of no production U-bin small (single cell) light available - even at a premium. I cannot understand why and have asked that question in several posts. I understand from some of our members that U bins are getting easier to find and cheaper over time, but U bins which were once on the Orb Raw are no longer available, and the EDS U85 must have been a U-bin in the initial offering (right?) - and we all know that story.

Anyone know of small U-bin lights being offered? If not anyone know why they are not available even though many of us would pay a premium?

lightrod said:

Anyone know of small U-bin lights being offered? If not anyone know why they are not available even though many of us would pay a premium?

Click to expand...

The Groovy! can be purchased with any U bin of your choice from those that I have in stock, mounted on a NextGen 750 mA driver, for $160.

You can see something like it here. The light is 3.3" long and 1" in diameter at the head.

wasBlinded said:

I'll bet that the average UxxK is a bit brighter at a given current than the average UxxJ, but there is so much sample to sample variability that it wouldn't be a safe predictive tool for any individual U bin LED.

Click to expand...

Just in because of this thread I ordered a Ubin star from PhotonFanatic and put it into a gladius last night. Upon turning it on, I noticed no difference. When I did a light bounce (no meter-- I forgot to get the baseline ), I noticed the Gladius was much closer (barely behind) to the L2 than it was previously (pretty noticable). Both are considerably behind the transplanted U2 Wbin (which isn't far from my US as stated already).

So yes it puts out more but not so much that you will drop your jaws.

Kiessling said:

In case of current regulation the two have the same brightness (pending the LOTTERY), but the UxxJ will run longer.
In case of direct drive the UxxJ is brighter.

Click to expand...

just want to make sure your correct in what your saying... a UxxJ will be brighter under regulation and DD?

Why was 'that one guy's' data who did all the tests of LuxVs vs. LuxIII's vs. LuxI's show the UWOK brighter than any of the UxxJ bins... ?

Given identical lumen ratings, UxxJ will be brighter under DD because it will be more over-driven the UxxK. The same leds under regulation should be the same brightness.

PhotonFanatic said:

The Groovy! can be purchased with any U bin of your choice from those that I have in stock, mounted on a NextGen 750 mA driver, for $160.

You can see something like it here. The light is 3.3" long and 1" in diameter at the head.

Click to expand...

Thanks Photonfanatic - I am not familiar with The Groovy! and I cannot get to the link you included ("here") for some reason. Definitely want to know more about that light....

lightrod said:

......., but U bins which were once on the Orb Raw are no longer available, ..........

Anyone know of small U-bin lights being offered? If not anyone know why they are not available even though many of us would pay a premium?

Click to expand...

You may want to take a look at this post, https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1464945&postcount=27

I have been very disappointed on a few occasions when I've found no difference between T-bins or U-bins in similar circumstances
eg. in DD-lights.

My T-bin Aleph-TXOH-Wiz1000 is actually brighter than
some of the U-bins I've had.

To my mind if there is a difference between U and T, it is not
nearly as obvious as the difference between T and S.

Therefore I personally wouldn't go through the effort of
upgrading T-bin lights to U-bin any more.

This has strayed slightly off topic - due no doubt to my less than clear first post. (booze and logical thinking don't mix )

I'm not questioning the fact that the U**J will be brighter than the T**H luxeon, merely if it is worth installing it in a multi-level, torch when the increased brightness/lower runtime of the U**J can be matched with the T**H, simply by adjusting the output level ie. level 12 on the T bin matching level 10 on the U bin, with no added benefit.

The only difference would be, as far as I can see, on the max setting, which would be brighter with less run time.