severely off topic....household lightbulbs

Illum

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Standards incandescent 110V lightbulbs even at 40W level still throws out a lot of heat....if the bulbs been on for a good 5-15 minutes and then submerging into cold water [bulb only not all the way up to the holder] the bulb will shatter....

what will happen if the light bulb is turned on while submerged in water? say if the receptacle is waterproofed?


Someone asked me this question, but Im uncertain of the answer...
 

bobisculous

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I would think it would not shatter. If you dump a bulb into water that was in the regular air like most any bulb, it would be adjusting to some serious changes in surrounding temperature. I can't remember Physics too well, but pressure around the bulb too would change drastically would it not? If you just turned it on in the water, I would think it would just work same as usual. Thats my complete guess anyhow.

-C
 

ACMarina

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I dunno... I tried gradually heating water in a glass dish and it exploded.. I can't guess on this one.. somebody with some physics skills will probably be able to help out, though..
 

Illum

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somethings i dont want to try it out less i have a spare aquarium tank and a few extra fuses for the circuit panel...

if the glass does break water will cool the tunstun to prevent it from burning loose...like an underwater "light" and may trip the circuit breakers.
 

Brighteyez

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Since the receptacle is seldom waterproof in real-life, and can pose a life-threatening hazard to someone who is dumb enough to consider doing this ...

I'd suggest you do the idiot a favor and not respond to him. You'll probably save his life, though he'll lose out on a chance for a Darwin award. ;)

Illum_the_nation said:
what will happen if the light bulb is turned on while submerged in water? say if the receptacle is waterproofed?
 

jtr1962

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It's the temperature gradient across the thickness of the glass which actually causes the bulb to shatter. In other words, if surface of the glass inside the bulb is, for argument's sake, 500°F and the surface of the outside is at tap water temperature (70°F this time of year in my area) then there's a 430°F temperature difference across maybe 0.03 inches thickness of glass. That's a temperature gradient of about 14,300°F per inch. Note that if the glass were thicker, say 0.1", then the temperature gradient would be higher. What causes the glass to shatter obviously is that it expands on the inside and contracts on the outside. When these forces exceed the tensile strength of the glass you know the result. It is for this reason that thin glass can deal with temperature shocks better than thick glass.

As for the answer to your question I think it would still shatter. When the bulb is operating in air, which is a very poor conductor of heat, the outer surface of the bulb is cooler than the inside surface, but still very hot. Therefore the temperature gradient is fairly small. If you put the same bulb in water then for all intents and purposes the outer surface of the bulb will be at the same temperature as the water but the inner surface will still be nearly as hot as when the bulb is running in air because glass can't conduct heat fast enough from the inside to the outside (i.e. it's a poor thermal conductor). The end result will be nearly the same as simply immersing a warm bulb running in air in water.
 
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IsaacHayes

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Depends. Some crazy 150w-500w bulb may still break. But I'd say a 40w wouldn't. Yes it would get hot, and the outside be cooler in the water, but the water would also heatsink that heat away from the bulb as it slowly warmed up. It's not such a shock as taking the already hot bulb and cooling it. The air inside may get hot but the glass still stay cool since it's in the water, and while the air and glass are different temps, that doesn't cause it to break. Think of a hot lightbulb outside in winter in -5 below or something. It's just when the glass it'self changes temp rappidly.

However I mentioned maybe a 500w would still blow. I remember a tomshardware experiment where they overclocked a cpu like crazy and had some crazy cold peltier or something on it. The cpu cracked apart. The cpu couldn't release all it's heat fast enough through itself so the top part of the cpu got too cold compared to the bottom of the chip and that caused 2 extreme temps of the cpu it'self and kablewy. So something like the 500w bulb might happen like the cpu...

Also keep in mind if you don't have the whole thing immersed, and the water line is up to the neck of the glass bulb and it gets really hot, if the water has a wave and splashes up on the neck that isn't submerged, it could shatter then.

Also pyrex glass is made to with stand hot temps and temp changes. I hae a pyrex plate that you can set a hot pan on and it won't break. Think electric stove tops too.
 
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robinhood4x4

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Maybe somebody should suggest this experiment to mythbusters...

Oh, and how is this severely off topic? It seems pretty pertinent to the forum to me. :)
 

3rd_shift

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I'm not so sure it would shatter.
Water is a good coolant and might keep the whole glass bulb at the same temperature enough to keep it stable.

There are 50 and even 100 watt household style bulbs for RV's that run at 12 volts if anyone wants to carefully give this a whirl.

Also, anyone who has a larger boat that sank and was recovered might know by now too. ;)
 

Diesel_Bomber

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I've seen auto headlights half full of water and still being used. The bulb has been completely covered in some cases, and only partly in others. Water would be splashed over the bulb in reaction to the movement of the vehicle, but the bulb was fine. An auto headlight bulb is constructed differently than a standard house bulb, but certainly gets warmer. I dunno what the net effect would be. :shrug:

:buddies:

P.S. Do any pool and spa lights use a sealed beam that doesn't have an internal capsule?
 

Eugene

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The older style auto bulbs have really thick glass so they are much less likely to break.

Couldn't you suspend a bulb and socket so that the base of the bulb is just above the top of the water level. Run is through a small fuse or use an isolation transformer (its a 1:1 transformer so you will still get 120v but current is limited). There would be safe ways to do this test.
 

allthatwhichis

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:ohgeez: :awman:

If you do it, use distilled water, as it is not conductive, and a plastic bucket, again since it is not conductive... O, and take pictures a note for whoever finds you to post the pictures here for us... :lolsign:Just in case... :grin2:
 
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Illum

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Brighteyez said:
Since the receptacle is seldom waterproof in real-life, and can pose a life-threatening hazard to someone who is dumb enough to consider doing this ...

I'd suggest you do the idiot a favor and not respond to him. You'll probably save his life, though he'll lose out on a chance for a Darwin award. ;)

I dont plan to, hes into scuba diving and complains about fish lights being expensive...i hope hes not trying to use a household bulb instead....:ohgeez:

IsaacHayes said:
I remember a tomshardware experiment where they overclocked a cpu like crazy and had some crazy cold peltier or something on it.

there was a few experiments on that :thinking: , including clocking a Pentium Mobile 1GHz up to 5.8 GHz by using liquid nitrogen, something about poor silicon heat transfer that caused the bottom to melt and top to crack:awman:, back on topic:grin2:

IsaacHayes said:
Depends. Some crazy 150w-500w bulb may still break. But I'd say a 40w wouldn't. Yes it would get hot, and the outside be cooler in the water, but the water would also heatsink that heat away from the bulb as it slowly warmed up. It's not such a shock as taking the already hot bulb and cooling it. The air inside may get hot but the glass still stay cool since it's in the water, and while the air and glass are different temps, that doesn't cause it to break. Think of a hot lightbulb outside in winter in -5 below or something. It's just when the glass it'self changes temp rappidly.

I orginally thought about this and found your answer to be somewhat realistic:goodjob:, but like Brighteyez said, its better for him not to tell him:grin2:.
 

Bogie

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I have a 12x24 inground pool thats lighted from the deep end with a fairly bright halogen that I assume is in water as the only access is throu the pool. It works great & I have not needed to replace it yet but the only way I could think to change the blb wthout getting water in it would be to drain the pool which im not doing
 

js

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The temperature gradient concept is the correct one to grasp here, but it's not the gradient from the outer surface to the inner surface that is at play. There is nothing forcing the inner surface to be at a high temperature. In air, that inner surface (and the outer surface) WILL get very hot, but if the outer surface is in contact with water, it will FORCE the inner surface to be cool, and there will not be such a massive temperature gradient.

However, there WILL be a huge temperature gradient where the submerged part of the envelope ends, and the part totally in air begins. And there MUST be such a point or you risk electrocuting yourself. i.e. you can't totally submerge the bulb and its fixture. Not a normal lightbul and normal fixture anyway.

But it is entirely possible to design an incandescent fixture and bulb that will work just dandy underwater. And the whole glass envlelope stays at pretty much the water temperature--well, within 20 or 30 F of it, anyway--but the filament is still at crazy high temperatures. And nothing shatters.

But don't try this with a normal household bulb and fixture. Bad idea. Bad idea.
 

Brock

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Pool lights have a lamp inside a sealed glass enclosure. If you ever need to change the lamp they typically coil 5 feet of cord up behind the fixture so you and bring it up on to the pool deck to change.

I somehow feel a future Darwin award winner is present ;)

Seriously though it could be a dangerous experiment but if I had to put money on it as long as it was submerged the whole time it wouldn't break, but they it wouldn't be powered. The problem I see is they base would get very hot being out of the water and likely at the water line the temperature would be a lot and fail there.
 

3rd_shift

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Some of the heat from the filament would travel down the electrodes to the base if I'm not mistaken.
How much? idunno..
If the bulb were a longneck, it might have the base far enough away from the filament to reduce some of the temperature difference.
Especialy if the bulb were a vacuum type instead of filled with an inert gas.
If there is an inert gas present, then convection inside would also transfer some heat directly from filament to the base of the bulb just above the water line.
Again, a low voltage RV, or marine bulb may be the safer bet to try this with.
 

Illum

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well, i chickened out on the 40 watt bulb test...so I used a 6 watt bulb instead:ohgeez: [PR 6V@1A].

didnt blow.....but the model fell over into the tub and shorted a good set of AAs...:ohgeez:
 

yuandrew

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I used a 6 watt bulb instead [PR 6V@1A].

didnt blow.....but the model fell over into the tub and shorted a good set of AAs

Did something similar a long time ago with a cheap Panasonic "BF-100"
BF-100blue%201kopie.jpg

flashlight in which I had "gasketed" the bulb and bulb holder with some small rubber bands and teflon tape then filled the entire head/reflector section with water before I reinstalled the bulb and resembled the light with some fresh D batteries.

I ran it like that for probably an hour before I took it apart and dumped the water out. It worked like any other flashlight other than the unusual beam it casted due to the water refracting the light. The light did get a little warm after a while and I noticed some tiny bubbles building up behind the lens before I emptied it out but the "gasket" was surprisingly effective; no water seeped into the battery section.

But anyway; the bulb didn't crack either because it was pretty low power to begin with (2 cell bulb) and I had it in the water when I turned it on so the temperture was slowly brought up. Maybe if I left a high output bulb (Mag85) on for an hour then submerged it like that; it would go POW! Thermal Shock comes to mind.

I did have a 45 watt [indoor] floodlight bulb fail after it rained from me using it in an opened outdoor fixture outside my back door (Heath Zenith outdoor floodlight). We left it on while it was raining and later I noticed that bulb was out. It had a large crack on the top where it was being rained on that went all the way around to the bottom where the water would be dripping off and I was able to break it open along the crack by pushing down on it.
 
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Illum

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robinhood4x4 said:
Maybe somebody should suggest this experiment to mythbusters...

Oh, and how is this severely off topic? It seems pretty pertinent to the forum to me. :)

pesonally I dont think intentionally detonating lightbulbs pertains to the forums rules on safety...:sssh:
 
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