CPF will eventually linger on as an example of how BBS were killed off by over modera

[scout24]

RecDNA- I think the ZL problem can be attributed to beating the dead horse again and again. There was one member who went from thread to thread deriding the lights over and over again for the same few things in the name of "informing people and answering questions of new members". The issues were there to be seen and researched by anyone, and I think detracted from the overall discussion by being dragged from page to page, thread after thread. Folks have been vocal about not liking the clips on certain ZL models, no intervention was necessary because it didn't take over the thread. Same with tint and UI discussions. They run their course, show back up briefly pages later, and we all move on.

My only beef is that criticism of some flashlights isn't really tolerated. For example when the discussion of Zebralight going to unprotected only cells some posted it was less safe. Others genuinely argued that it was perfectly safe. Then a few others went over the top attacking those of us who prefer protected cells basically saying we are stupid. The mod stepped in. I have no problem with that part but the "solution" was to end all discussion on the issue and segregate it to a separate less frequented thread. I always think the mod should step in when people get insulting or personal but to essentially exclude a point of view from a thread because the majority there don't like that point of view goes against the free exchange of ideas.

The same thing used to happen back when Surefire was sacrosanct here. If you entered a Surefire thread and pointed out some 4sevens light did more for less money you were basically labeled a troll. No criticism of Surefire allowed.

Moderation is essential. Without it we'd have bedlam. I just think it is those who attack others personally who should have posts deleted not someone who politely presents a different point of view, especially an unpopular one.

 

[recDNA]

I meant it only as an example. I enjoyed the discussion but the majority did not so that was that. You criticize any flashlight here at your peril. There are always folks who passionately defend their favs... And that is fine. I almost got the boot my first year here because I could not understand why anyone would pay more for a Surefire than a Solarforce copy or some other brand. (I do now) I meant no harm but my comment was interpreted as trolling. I recognize it is a very difficult job moderating such an avid group of flashaholics. That is a sickness almost everyone here shares.

One huge change for the better here is how newbies are treated imo. When I started out many people would just tell you to search for yourself. People share their years of experience much more freely now. Sometimes a new member doesn't even know what to search. I know I didn't. Now some of our best threads are those helping someone pick a new flashlight. I learn more reading those threads than any others.

 

[Monocrom]

I meant it only as an example. I enjoyed the discussion but the majority did not so that was that. You criticize any flashlight here at your peril....

Okay, I've seen this sentiment expressed by others, for years; and honestly don't get where it's coming from. Especially the whole "You can't criticize SureFire!" thing. Really?? Because I've been doing that for years. I keep it civil, I don't resort to saying things such as "SureFire sucks!!" I point out an issue, then go into why it's a problem.

Number of my posts deleted in which I criticized SureFire or other brands: 0

Number of times I've been banned for criticizing: 0

Number of times a moderator or Admin. "politely" encouraged me not to criticize brands: 0

I'm no one special. I can simply express myself without personal insults or name-calling. When a thread degrades to that point, yes; moderators and Admins. have to step in. Sometimes it degrades so badly that there's no choice but to completely put an end to the discussion. But, once again, if someone who has a reputation as one of the biggest SureFire critics on CPF can openly criticize the brand (along with other brands), the whole "Can't criticize ______" idea falls rather flat.

 

[recDNA]

I don't know how long you've been here but I've seen entire threads closed it got so ugly.

BTW, when I said criticize at your peril I meant fellow members would chew you to shreds. Mods aren't going to ban you for being critical unless you're downright abusive.

In the ZL example, however, it's hard not to feel like you "lost" when told to no longer discuss what I still find the most interesting change from Mark II to Mark III. Maybe I am the guy referred to as going from thread to thread expressing my chagrin that one of my favorite flashlights was going in a direction I really don't like. If so it wasn't being trollish. It was just a discussion I enjoyed.

Let me put it this way. Nobody will ever be criticized for going from thread to thread saying how wonderful some change is. Being critical is risky.

Now I'm putting myself at risk for being too persistent in arguing this point so I won't post any more about it.

 

[nbp]

It wasn't you recDNA. You know who it was. As scout said, it wasn't at all the fact that some people didn't like the change, it was that instead of a discussion, it was a couple people going round and round saying the same things 20 different ways trying to make it seem like their opinion was the end all stand on the issue.

It devolved into a situation where people who wanted to discuss anything other than the stupid batteries couldn't because their posts got buried in all the inane diatribe. If people really wanted to discuss that issue they would have had no problem moving to a separate thread just for that topic, but I suspect it just wasn't as fun when they didn't have the whole ZL tribe to preach to over in the other thread so it died out. That also tells me it wasn't nearly the issue some made it out to be.

At any rate, I thought we sorted this all out in those threads and I honestly don't know why it is still causing such angst or why it is being perceived as "one cannot criticize ZL". The issue is not an expression of a negative opinion but rather a person continuing to rehash a point ad nauseum to the annoyance of other members. As I mentioned in the other thread, a fanboy might attract similar attention if his ceaseless praise of a product were to become disruptive and annoying to others.

You are an intelligent man, this I know. Certainly you can see the difference. Yes? No? Maybe?

 

[bykfixer]

I used to frequent a fairly well moderated car site that was generally pretty friendly. It was 90% relaxed discussions with lots of folks helping each other out. Mods were like football refs in that they followed the action with occasional assistance to the topic at hand.
Sometimes someone would burst in and post a question that was asked a million billion times.
(Example here would be about thread lube... there's a sticky).
Folks generally would steer the op to a sticky. Sometimes the op would get ugly, but usually they went away.

Other times a couple of the 'staff' would jump in like a hockey player and start a fight. That was weird.

Folks here in this thread talk about being singled out. Over there I was literally singled out and told so. The cars in subject were no longer being made and were becoming old cars. Many topics were maintenance related. Well I learned from old school folks how to do basic checks of the internal combustion engine, and the logic of the site was "it's just a bad sensor". My responses rubbed against the grain of the conventional wisdom.
(Think hotwire of the incan light here at this site and I was preaching how stock output should be understood first)
My posts were to help the unlearned understand the basics before diving into boosting things to understand what can go wrong. Here it would be a topic of 6 cell bulb keeps insta flashing using high output rechargeables. Moderators would tell the op "SEARCH STUPID" or that kind of approach.
My solution was based on once upon a time being young, broke and ignorant while want 300 horsepower from a 4 cylinder'd jalopy.
So at times I'd remark about how you cannot get blood from a turnip without some basic understanding of both.
Time passed and the site pretty much changed directions from a performance enhancing subject matter to keeping old Bessy running.
I imagine it would be like CPF going from a few hot rod incans to the plethora of LED lights of today.

The staff over there did not take to the change very well and largely faded away. Along with them the quality moderation. It turned into a free for all with thread after thread of the same old stuff and tenured members losing interest in the site because of that. (At that other site a moderator friend of mine said at first there'd be "emergency" staff meetings called by a couple of thin skinned mods to vote on banning that Bykfixer character... I was never banned btw... but the generation gap was huge... not the case here at CPF)

After reading literally several hundred old CPF threads (at least 10 years old) it has shown me that the staff at CPF has rolled with all the change very well. I'd imagine some very lively staff meetings have taken place, yet it does not show up on the board here at all.

I just threw all that out there to say that although some members raise the ire of the staff here at times there is logic in the times they step in and based on my experiences with numerous sites over the years this one has a crack staff that does a tough job of keeping a very imformative board going in a positive, relaxed direction.
And like the sleeping bear, unless you go to poking at said sleeping bear, things stay pretty calm for those of us carrying our battery powered fire on a stick.

This place has plenty of room for debate with drama being short lived. That is a rare treat imo.

 

[Bimmerboy]

Wow... what a thread this turned into. A real mixture of things, touching memories and emotions for me regarding many subjects, and I'm glad to have read it.

This thread, among many others, sheds light on (couldn't resist) why CPF, as I shall proceed to ineloquently state... is, and always has been totally awesome.


And, RIP, Norm.

 

[Beamhead]

And, RIP, Norm.

Ditto

 

[etc]

OFF topic

Hard to believe I've been on this forum for about 12-13 years. I've gone through major life changes during this last decade. To the point when I first joined, I was a completely different person.

I have seen a lot of people come and go. I've seen some even die.

Makes me sad a little, when you think about how fast / short your life is.

 

[Monocrom]

I don't know how long you've been here but I've seen entire threads closed it got so ugly.

BTW, when I said criticize at your peril I meant fellow members would chew you to shreds. Mods aren't going to ban you for being critical unless you're downright abusive.

I'd say that nbp did a good job of covering the other issues you mentioned in the latter half of your post that I'm quoting. I just wanted to comment on these. My join date is on every post. (Can't believe it has been that long.)

It's unfortunate, but often; folks behave on the internet very differently than they do in real life. Personally, I don't. What you see here is what folks get in real life. But I accept that my outlook is a very tiny minority. You have to develop a thick skin. Then develop an even thicker and tougher skin on top of the first layer. Just how it is.

On the biggest watch forums on the internet, I've had fellow members go insane over observations and questions regarding models from their favorite brands. Even to the point of having usually intelligent, rational, and well-respected members telling me to shut up about mildly negative questions regarding models part of their favorite brand. (I've spent a lot of time on those forums, with nearly as many posts there as I have here.)

I've seen new members get ganged up on for asking questions involving negative experiences with certain brands. The TAG Heuer fan-boys are the most ravenous. With Omega's fan base a very close second. The most laid back are the G-Shock lovers. But I'll never forget one topic in particular. Took several months to degrade horribly. Started out innocently enough with a new member wanting to get help with his Glycine watch. Several regulars, including myself, saw his posts and tried to help him out. Couple of months later, same topic; President of Glycine offered to help, personally. Topic died down for a couple of months. New member then posts that nothing was done. Same older members offered more suggestions. President made a couple of more posts, offering to help. (Well-respected moderator confirmed it was the actual President of Glycine.) Topic died down for couple of more months. New member bumped it again. He still had received no help from the President....

What happened next was the single most disgusting thing I've seen on any forum. Practically the entire membership of the Dive watch forum raided the topic! BTW, the topic wasn't in that forum. These usually respectful and respectable members tore into the now not so new member in a vicious feeding frenzy of hatred like you wouldn't believe! These are guys I've interacted with before. Normally laid back.

These are guys whose faces I've seen in the Post Your Image topic on their sub-forum. Usually posting pics. with their young children in the photos. Fathers, husbands, some old enough to be grand-fathers. Acting like vicious ghetto trash street thugs. Even the President of Glycine got in a few choice shoots. To his credit, the new member remained calm and simply pointed out he had an issue, and wanted it fixed. Fast-forward a few more weeks, and it was fixed. And I was disgusted. I no longer frequent the Dive watch forum.

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for all the children of those members. I hope all those fathers teach them not to behave the way they did. Normally "raiding" is done from one site to a completely different one. And, it is one of the most low-life things you can do on an internet forum. You never see it done on the same site, one sub-forum to another. I saw it. I've also experienced worst.

I had a genuine e-stalker on that site. Even after placing him on ignore list, I found out he kept following me and constantly replying to my posts to other members. I still post on that site. Here's the main point, it's just words. I've met numerous folks who had no intelligent rebuttal to points I've raised. So they get vicious and resort to name-calling or even threats. It's their way of saying, "You're right, but I won't admit it!"

You can't let that get to you. If someone can't express themselves in an intelligent manner, then why waste time with them? Either brush it off, or toss them on your ignore list. That's what I do.

 

[Poppy]

I had a genuine e-stalker on that site. Even after placing him on ignore list, I found out he kept following me and constantly replying to my posts to other members. I still post on that site. Here's the main point, it's just words. I've met numerous folks who had no intelligent rebuttal to points I've raised. So they get vicious and resort to name-calling or even threats. It's their way of saying, "You're right, but I won't admit it!"

You can't let that get to you. If someone can't express themselves in an intelligent manner, then why waste time with them? Either brush it off, or toss them on your ignore list. That's what I do.

Not long ago, I was infuriated by a member who essentially accused me of not being man enough to admit that I was wrong, on some silly issue.

Now you're just reaching because you don't want to admit you're wrong. Even though earlier in the very post quoted above, your own research has shown that your initial outlook was mistaken. I can have a discussion with anyone. But not with someone who refuses to admit they were mistaken,

He foolishly misinterpreted the data I presented. His comment caused me to do additional research, which I then presented, as irrefutable proof that I was right and that he was wrong. Two other members agreed with me.

There was no apology, no comment.

Because he unjustifiably attacked my character, and didn't apologize, I find myself, sometimes, reading threads that I otherwise wouldn't have read, because I noticed that he posted in it.

I'd like to suggest that at that other site where you have a e-stalker, that you go back and re-read some of the threads that you had interaction with him. Perhaps there was something that YOU said, or DIDN'T SAY, that really ticked him off.

 

[Greta]

.... <snip>

These are guys whose faces I've seen in the Post Your Image topic on their sub-forum. Usually posting pics. with their young children in the photos. Fathers, husbands, some old enough to be grand-fathers. Acting like vicious ghetto trash street thugs. .... <snip>

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for all the children of those members. I hope all those fathers teach them not to behave the way they did. Normally "raiding" is done from one site to a completely different one. And, it is one of the most low-life things you can do on an internet forum. You never see it done on the same site, one sub-forum to another. I saw it. I've also experienced worst.

I had a genuine e-stalker on that site. Even after placing him on ignore list, I found out he kept following me and constantly replying to my posts to other members. I still post on that site. Here's the main point, it's just words. I've met numerous folks who had no intelligent rebuttal to points I've raised. So they get vicious and resort to name-calling or even threats. It's their way of saying, "You're right, but I won't admit it!"

You can't let that get to you. If someone can't express themselves in an intelligent manner, then why waste time with them? Either brush it off, or toss them on your ignore list. That's what I do.

This part of your post strikes a particular chord with me. On some other sites there are members who have stalked my Facebook page and taken photos from my page to re-post on their forum and post truly disgusting personal remarks regarding everything from my looks to my intelligence, and even comments about my husband and children. No, my Facebook page is not private - it is totally public. I have nothing to hide from anyone. But I have always wondered what some of these guys' wives would think if they saw what they were posting about another woman - that they don't even know! What would their children think of how they talk about women? And then it occurs to me that guys like that probably aren't married (more likely long since divorced), and their children (if they have any) probably don't have anything to do with them or have been raised to be the same kind of misogynistic A-hole.

The funny (ironic not ha-ha) part is that those same guys post here on CPF and think I don't know who they are on those other sites. They don't even have the manhood to use the same name they use here. They kiss my butt here then make disgusting (and I do mean seriously foul and disgusting!) remarks about me there.

I don't want or need anyone to kiss my butt - that's not why I am here and run this site. I'm a big girl and have some pretty thick skin. But it really does make one wonder at the lives of people like that. The internet turns them into people that no one in their "real" world would ever tolerate. And CPF will not tolerate it either. These other sites (some don't even have crickets anymore - they are so dead) have disparaged CPF and me and predicted we would both be just a distant memory in no time. And yet - we are both still here. Why? Because in the end, DECENT people prefer DECENCY in others. I don't care if CPF is the largest flashlight community on the internet. I only care that it maintains it's integrity, civility and decency. And evidently that is what the majority of people in these communities prefer as well... because CPF still is... the largest flashlight community on the internet... 16 years and counting!

 

[Poppy]

<SNIP> in the end, DECENT people prefer DECENCY in others. I don't care if CPF is the largest flashlight community on the internet. I only care that it maintains it's integrity, civility and decency. And evidently that is what the majority of people in these communities prefer as well... because CPF still is... the largest flashlight community on the internet... 16 years and counting!

^ :thumbsup: x2

 

[Monocrom]

This part of your post strikes a particular chord with me. On some other sites there are members who have stalked my Facebook page and taken photos from my page to re-post on their forum and post truly disgusting personal remarks regarding everything from my looks to my intelligence, and even comments about my husband and children. No, my Facebook page is not private - it is totally public. I have nothing to hide from anyone. But I have always wondered what some of these guys' wives would think if they saw what they were posting about another woman - that they don't even know! What would their children think of how they talk about women? And then it occurs to me that guys like that probably aren't married (more likely long since divorced), and their children (if they have any) probably don't have anything to do with them or have been raised to be the same kind of misogynistic A-hole.

The funny (ironic not ha-ha) part is that those same guys post here on CPF and think I don't know who they are on those other sites. They don't even have the manhood to use the same name they use here. They kiss my butt here then make disgusting (and I do mean seriously foul and disgusting!) remarks about me there.

I don't want or need anyone to kiss my butt - that's not why I am here and run this site. I'm a big girl and have some pretty thick skin. But it really does make one wonder at the lives of people like that. The internet turns them into people that no one in their "real" world would ever tolerate. And CPF will not tolerate it either. These other sites (some don't even have crickets anymore - they are so dead) have disparaged CPF and me and predicted we would both be just a distant memory in no time. And yet - we are both still here. Why? Because in the end, DECENT people prefer DECENCY in others. I don't care if CPF is the largest flashlight community on the internet. I only care that it maintains it's integrity, civility and decency. And evidently that is what the majority of people in these communities prefer as well... because CPF still is... the largest flashlight community on the internet... 16 years and counting!

Here's to 16 more!

I admit that when I first joined, I was so addicted to lights that I joined a couple of other forums as well. Soon stopped going to them. I did see a couple of genuinely disgusting comments about you. Figured I'd stay at the site where comments were mainly about lights instead of personal attacks. Figured if what they said was true, I'd just leave. Just like I did those other sites. That was about 10 years ago, and I'm still here. (Thankfully, I've been on here long enough to not be confused for a butt-kisser when I give credit where it's due.) I just wanted a calm, relaxing place to discuss lights. Sometimes, even on CPF, that doesn't always happen. But we're all human.

I'm glad that this place exists. Honestly, if that watch site had a strong willed owner with a thick skin; I doubt those members would have so savagely raided that new member's topic. Or, if they did, bans would have been handed out. I just honestly don't get what joy others take in trying to make new members or fellow members feel like crap for whatever reason. What's the point of going to a site dedicated to something you care about if the main point is having everyone mindless agree, and verbally (or I guess type-ally?) ridicule in a bile-filled manner those who don't. But such individuals will always exist. Those who try to make themselves feel big or feel important by putting down others in the most vicious manner possible. I've been on CPF long enough to know you don't care that it's the biggest flashlight forum site on the internet. Trouble is, those guys with their dead sites.... They do care. They care a lot! Jealousy is an ugly thing.

Sometimes they want to get a rise out of you. Just to know that you saw what they posted, and that it bothered you. And somehow that makes them feel better about their sad lives. Even with my e-stalker on that site, I made it clear to him on the outset that he was on my Ignore List. Didn't stop him from following me around, disagreeing with everything I posted, swearing there was scientific evidence that proved I was wrong. (Yet, never posted links to any scientific journals or credible sources. Did post a lot of links to far-from-credible Wikipedia.) I have e-friends on that site who followed my posts because they were buddies. They'd sent me PMs about what he posted. Got to the point where I politely thanked them for the updates but made it clear that I didn't care what someone with a sad little ego thought of me. I wasn't going to stroke his ego. Yet, he held out hope that I would. That I'd see one of his posts, get upset, and blow my stack.

Even nowadays, he still follows me around sometimes. Like a lost sad, angry, bile-filled puppy. Lazily trying to hold up one paw. Desperate to make the middle knuckle somehow a little bit longer than the others. With hope in its eyes that I'll see it and react.

I could understand, if I was a famous actor or a controversial political figure. But every Regular knows what I do for a living. For some odd reason, my watch forum e-stalker, and there have been others (such as on EDCF), who are obsessed with a 40 year-old security officer who looks a lot like Vincent D'Onofrio, and is a bit out of shape. What the Hell?? I'm not even a mildly attractive young woman. I will say I've always had an odd ability to attract men who practice an "alternative lifestyle." No clue why! Maybe that's where their stalkerish behavior comes from? Had no clue my ability extended into the vast reaches of cyber space! How am I supposed to take over the world with that superpower?? It's even crappier than Aqua Man's ability to communicate with fish. LOL.

I will say I once described you as "not a wall-flower" to a new member. I think that's a fair statement. A velvet glove is fine. But sometimes you need an iron fist underneath it. Thanks to you, CPF hasn't turned to crap, nor been killed off by excessive moderating.

Some of us appreciate that. Thanks Greta. Oh and.....

Happy Mother's Day.

 

[ven]

Reading your posts Monocrom is like a very good book(of course shorter)but just flows so well.

You should write .............

Of to google Vincent and see what you look like

 

[Monocrom]

Reading your posts Monocrom is like a very good book(of course shorter)but just flows so well.

You should write .............

Of to google Vincent and see what you look like

Look up "Psycho from Full Metal Jacket."

The one of him sitting on the toilet wearing a white T-shirt.... Whenever I shave my head, that's the spitting image of me! No kidding at all.

Thank you for the compliment too. I do write. Have a small but loyal following on another site where I post my short stories and horror tales. Ironically, I always seem to come up with one great scene, and the ending; first. Somehow, when I'm done writing, the ending still fits. PM me if you'd like a link to where I post my tales.

Now back to our regularly scheduled heavy-handed moderating.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Eventually linger on is redundant; and the title as a whole doesn't make sense.

Chauncey Gardiner, posts here and mytractorforum.com with the same username. If you think you read me anywhere else, let me know cuz it isn't me. I'm only on two forums.

oh, and a :kiss: for Greta's butt.

~ C.G.

 

[ven]

oh, and a :kiss: for Greta's butt.

~ C.G.

Cheeky Gardiner !

 

[Beamhead]

Will this thread ever die a slow death?

 

[Greta]

Will this thread ever die a slow death?

One can only hope... :tired: