The Current Trends of CPF -- One newbie's opinion

carrot

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I mean to address this to all users of CPF, whether you are an old-timer, a seasoned newbie, or a budding flashaholic, if you feel that CPF is something important to you, I hope that (without myself being conceited or pretentious), you will read this. I plead to you, the reader, to save or bookmark this thread if it is too long for you to read right now. Read it in parts, maybe. But my hope is what I have to say is heard.

Please excuse me if my writing is a bit long. But the trends of CPF from my viewpoint are of a one year timeframe, complimented with the ability to look to the past (the archives) from time to time. I guess the most "old-timer" thing I can say is, when I was your age (judging by CPF join dates, of course), Luxeons and the first 1AA light to use a Luxeon (L1P) were the hot item. Which isn't much at all, but that year has given me enough experience to say that CPF has changed, and perhaps to the detriment of this enthusiast hobby.

I do not mean for this thread to be pointed at anyone or anybody in specific. I very rarely hold grudges, and in this case I have forgotten every particular instance of posts I have found distasteful. I hope that I do offend some people, but no one in particular, because if I do, it means my point has been mulled over, thought out and that it has been properly delivered. If nobody is in the very least incensed over what I have to say, then I believe my days on CPF might be numbered. Because what I have to say is about the direction CPF went over the last year, and where it may be heading.

If history professors are right about historical preservation and dated op-ed's being critical, this may be the most important thing (to myself, in the very least) I have ever posted or will post here, because it reflects not only myself and my relation to this hobby, but how CPF has changed over the past year, whether for better or for worse.

I have been on CPF for a year and a month now. I came here because I had just gotten a Surefire G2 and I was excited about it. It was my first, what we call here "real," flashlight. I had seen CPF months before, but first turned away as the not-so aesthetically pleasing logo and immensely large and active forums scared me off.

I made a few threads here and there, but mostly I read. And once in awhile, when I could offer information, I would, taking care to imply the amount of credibility the information was based on my sources and wording.

Turn back the wayback machine and go to the happy past. In display options at the bottom of any specific forum you can select the oldest threads to be shown. I selected "Last Year" and then after it loaded a new page, clicked "Last »."

You'll see topics that were posted, not just discussing "Which flashlight is the Best for $50," or "What should I buy?" or "I just bought xxx light!" but things that were a lot less consumerist/materialist in nature. You'll see topics like "Brainstorming about new designs," "Giving a toastmaster speech," "Flashlights on 'Company Time,'" and "Poll: The strength of your EDC flashlight." We were happy not discussing in every thread what our next supreme purchase would be, or what *your* next light should be, but to discuss our current ones, our uses, and our hobby itself.

When I stop reminiscing about the good old days, which frankly wasn't very long ago, I am jarred back into the future present where all of a sudden we are no longer happy with what we have. Certainly nothing about our lights have changed. They have not suddenly gotten dimmer, dumber or less efficient. As a collective whole, we have not gotten desensitized to our current EDC's brightness. Yet we are suddenly wanting and needing more.

The current hype is amazing. It is contagious, and it certainly eclipses the overwhelming reaction to the original Fenix offerings, which pretty much just started getting into the hands of greedy flashaholics all over the nation just as I came onto CPF.

Don't buy that light! It's outdated, underpowered, and there are new models just on the horizon, for just double the cost of the light that others have assured you will suit your needs! I feel like I hear this a lot nowadays. It disgusts me to the point that it almost makes me want to leave CPF, but I cannot because I still have myths and disinformation to dispel. Worse still, I sometimes see bashing of lights and manufacturers simply because they don't make what the user, or should I say armchair flashaholic, is looking for, or at least, what the flashaholic can afford. It often occurs to me that we are starting to act like sheep.

Certainly we would all like to pretend we *need* a flashlight that can put out a thousand lumens, throw a wide, usable hotspot across a football field, and run for hundreds of hours. But I am willing to bet on my little flashlight collection that if all of a sudden our high-powered hotwires and tiny overpowered Cree lights and "outdated" Luxeons were erased from our lives and all we had were Maglites and dinky Surefire E1e's and Arc-AAA's most of us would be quite well served.

Stand back for a moment and think, do you *really* need the latest and greatest? With the rate of improvements in electronics, I quickly gave up the "need" for having the latest and greatest gadget, and with the current rate of improvements in LED technology, I feel that trying to keep up is a very hard pursuit financially, and not worth it in the long run. All you gain by doing so is get bragging rights, and to someone for whom utility is much more meaningful, bragging rights means little. I have long ago stopped caring about letting people know what lights I own, because I don't need to broadcast what I have to feel special. If you go through all my posts on CPF you might get a pretty good idea of what lights I own and what lights I hold dear to me. But aside from a flashaholic's first purchase, few if any lights warrant creating threads announcing their acquisition. And so bragging rights becomes a really insignificant reason to own a light.

I now understand what one newbie asked us CPFers once, "do you feel that flashlights have intrinsic value?" I say unless they're in your pocket, or in your bag, or in your hands being used, they have a value of zero. That's right, ZERO. Because when they are not being used they have, for the most part, as much value as having a shiny polished rock on your desk or shelves.

Veterans are no longer treated with respect ("damned kids!"), and combined with the shift of focus from hobby to materialism, it is causing veterans to move on. More and more frequently, posts that used to be answered by veterans are answered by completely green newbies, and not an old-timer in sight. A great deal of information gets lost this way. We must do our part to keep information alive.

As I mentioned before, CPF has slowly coasted to a place where the flashlight hobby of using, maintaining, designing and appreciating lights is becoming twisted and distilled to a sad state of greedy materialistic armchair flashaholics. What was once a hobby is now a money drain, and lights are not so much being purchased to actually use, but to behold and to show off. Mass consumerism at its finest, indeed. It is saddening and it is disturbing, and it is driving away more experienced CPFers. This is truth, not speculation. This thread is only one of many examples. Others, such as tvodrd, JSB, greenLED and a few whose names I cannot remember off the top of my head, have already considerably cut down their activity on CPF.

So what can you do? Unfortunately it is difficult to go against a trend or the masses. But you can start by refusing to be a sheep, refusing to follow the masses, and by giving the less consumerist "hobby appreciation"-type threads more consideration and thought. You can start threads that help us remember why we enjoy the hobby and why we enjoy talking about lights, so that not every new thread listed is another about the latest and greatest. And you can buy from CPF-supporting modding parts vendors like Fivemega and Modamag and the Sandwich Shoppe. (Just names off the top of my head.)



Thank you for your time, and thank you for listening.

- carrot, self-described collector and distributor of (mis)information



Edit: Feel free to tell me off via PM, but I would prefer if anything thought to be important was shared in public view.
 
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SkinlessMonkey

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I haven't been here long enough to see the change your talking about. I like getting new lights for showing off and also for use. A lot of hobbies are eventually delve down into bragging contests. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say, but I kind of understand where you're coming from and hope that things change for the better.
 

carrot

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SkinlessMonkey said:
I haven't been here long enough to see the change your talking about. I like getting new lights for showing off and also for use. A lot of hobbies are eventually delve down into bragging contests. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say, but I kind of understand where you're coming from and hope that things change for the better.
Certainly, there is nothing wrong with what basically amounts to the flashlight version of locker room... err, comparisons and p***ing contests, but I find it sad to see that CPF has been reduced to only this, when only a year ago threads less about materialism and more about real, thought-out discussions were more commonplace. Take, for instance, the thread titled "Are Surefires worth the money?", a thread that contained an excellent many posts breaking down the value of a Surefire and why people felt they were (or weren't!) worth the hard-earned money. Or worse, what used to be a modder's hobby being turned completely into a commercial, "out-of-the-box experience" affair.
 

NAW

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Years ago when I was a little kid, I always pocketed a Mini Maglite. I knew back then that I absolutley loved flashlights. Since then I had purchased alot of lights like a 9P with a P91. But to this very day I still EDC that same Mini Mag with a weak nite-ize LED as well as a Streamlight Propolymer 4AA LED, even though I have access to a 9P.
 
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iNDiGLo

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I have to stand behind carrot on his assesment of the state of CPF. I have been around approximately the same length of time and i have also noticed a trend of threads that seem to be about "quick to judge" or "quick to anger" over things that simply come down to materialism and who can **** the farthest.

I think he said it best when he said this:

"CPF has slowly coasted to a place where the flashlight hobby of using, maintaining, designing and appreciating lights is becoming twisted and distilled to a sad state of greedy materialistic armchair flashaholics. What was once a hobby is now a money drain, and lights are not so much being purchased to actually use, but to behold and to show off."

I am still passionate about flashlights and the technology in general and will continue to educate myself and help others when i feel i have something of value to offer.

Lets hope 2007 and beyond allows us to refocus our commitment to helping our fellow flashaholics and new members encouraged to be here and learn from each other in a positive way. :candle:

sheep.JPG

I am not a sheep.

iNDiGLo
 
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Penguin

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Carrot, I understand where you're coming from and in my almost 4 years on the boards I've seen a great change in the forums, some good, some bad. When I first signed onto the CPF, the original black Arc AAA's were the hottest thing, Tactical Warehouse and Bulldog Enterprises were the only place to get your Surefire fix and everyone had a very warm and welcoming attitude. CPF is still one of the best BBS's I've seen online despite how 'commercial' it got. I agree with your argument, we should take a step back and take the CPF for what it is, a means to have fun with our neat lights and discuss them. Sure, CPF is a terrific way to find out whats the hottest new light on the market, but it can also be used as a vessel to discuss the intrinsic value of your lights, something many of us might have forgotten.
 

LowBat

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I see what you're saying carrot. There are commercial interests here along with the hobbyist. I think it really comes down to which parts of CPF you want to spend your time, or money, on. When I started here two years ago I was spending the bulk of my time reading and posting in the General and LED categories. After my first year I seem to have migrated onto the Cafe and Get Together threads, and somehow find myself now organizing events. How did that happen?!?

FWIW, I only own 5 flashlights after two years and some 1,400 posts. Well, that is until Mr. Chow mails me a couple of L1Ds. :crazy:
 

Lightmeup

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I agree, there seems to be a sort of mob-like obsession with many folks about getting the newest, brightest, smallest, etc., trinket as they become available. I don't really understand the phenomena. I can't really think of any way my quality of life would be seriously degraded if my f/l only produced 30 lumens instead of 40, like some newly-released model, etc. I doubt I could even notice the difference under most normal operating conditions. I think it makes sense to wait a while before buying these new toys to let the manufacturers get all of the bugs out, and for the price to drop after the surge of fanatics buy up every available piece when they are first released. JMO.
 

shiftd

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I agree with what Carrot said. I have been here since 2002, time where the led lights were just coming out, and Dat2Zip just released his sammich. I bought MM, BB400 and such. I still remember when I bought lightwave2000 and think "wow, this thing is much better than my gaglight!" When I popped in the sammich, it was a real eye opener!!
Most of the chattering that happened on CPF at the time were mostly happen in the homemade/ electronics section. BST were there, but it was mostly based on community spirit of sharing is caring. In essence, CPF of old is like a BIG family, where you hang out to have fun, talk about hobbies with fellow flashaholics, warm and fuzzy feelings all around. At this time, the flashlight industries on CPF were mostly based on hobbies and enthusiasm.

Welp, 4 and some years later, a lot of it has changed. CPF is now mainly a forum where marketers sell. We still talk about our hobbies here, but not as intense as it used to be. Most of the BST that happens now is based on profit. Sure, a little percentage still based on community spirit, but that is more like an exception rather than the norm. People bringing in new lights not because they want to innovate, but rather because there is a high money to be made. I don't blame the innovators for not posting more. Judging from how much copy infringement to one's idea, I don't see them posting anytime soon.

CPF has grow big over the years, both for its good and bad. But from my point of view, it is mostly for the bad. Yeah, we usually get good deals on lights and we get to influence what lights come up with what, but at what expense? We lost the warmth that used to make up CPF. I guess this is also the reason why old timers left/ rarely post anymore. It is just so disheartening. I guess CPF is more and more becoming market place than a community. It is all about the next good deal!


It is late and I cannot sleep, so this is just my 15 lumens :banghead:
 

LEDcandle

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Well, CPF is only what its people make it. If all the old timers and contributors pack up and leave due to a change in culture, all the more it will sink! I haven't been here that long either, but I do see what carrot means. Although the warmth of sharing and going through all the financially-draining ordeals still remain fundamentally the same, there has been a lot of commercialism lately, with many new offerings from Asian dealers.

This shouldn't be seen negatively though! It gives us more options.... ultimately the lights we purchase are our decision! We may choose to pursue the latest and greatest or choose to ride out the storm but as long as we share our hopes, dreams and mods, we'll have a very real community here with real people.

We can 'fight' this together; continue sharing our knowledge, mods, suggestions etc. in a polite and objective manner and we'll continue forging ahead towards 500lumen/watt LEDs! :D (And of course, there will be some casualties financially along this journey.... haha )
 

Rudi

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I've visited this site since before Luxeon Stars, and from my perspective CPF has only changed for the better. Perhaps the perceived change for the worse reflects the different priorities of its present population. This could easily be verified by comparing old-timers' old posts with their recent ones. The continuity of CPF is in the hands of a few old-timers, and their priorities seem unchanged. Besides, it's easy on CPF to concentrate on what interests you and ignore what annoys you.
 

Sub_Umbra

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I hear you Carrot. I have also been troubled by the things you address and I've had to come up with different ways of dealing with them in my mind. The bottom line (for me) is that in spite of all the chaos there is still a lot of expertise here -- perhaps under the surface. My tastes run pretty far away from 'smallest, brightest, newest.' Try to not let the masses get to you. One of the things that makes lights so interesting any more is that they are going through an extended period of rapid change. This will always bring out the best and the worst aspects of any subject. It's a given.

While we may sometimes feel we are awash with 'armchair flashaholics' the nature of this place is that the very serious will be drawn here, too.

Personally, I find comfort and community in the knowledge that if I see or start a thread with words "blue light" or "cyan light" in the subject line it will soon be visited by a few whose points of view I respect. The same is true for a few of my other pet subjects. That's good.
 

eebowler

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Change will happen; sometimes for the worst.
carrot said:
More and more frequently, posts that used to be answered by veterans are answered by completely green newbies, and not an old-timer in sight. A great deal of information gets lost this way. We must do our part to keep information alive.
I've actually been noticing this trend for close to a year now (if not more) and I do understand partially why it's so. For me, it becomes somewhat annoying seeing the same thread pop up again and again in practically the same form. Giving the same answer repeatedly is tedious especially when you know that the answer wouldn't have taken much effort to find in the first place. People are getting lazier as the years go by. I can't even begin to know how it feels for the older/ more technical heads who have information to share. No, I'm blaming the mods here. They have lots of work to do and remembering all the threads in their subforum is impossible.
 

Frenchyled

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I remember me my first question in CPF....It was about my X990 in the HID flashlights section...and MR Ted Bears replied quickly even if my english was very bad ;) (not really better now.. but who knows ? ;) )
YEah, I agree CPF has changed, but I think it's normal and you can still find some nice threads where the word "help" means something :)
YEah the commercial aspect is more important than in 2002, but flashlight market have changed too !!!
Like another member said, in 2002 it was only the birth date of luxeon LED, at least for our small flashlights ;) The growing market changed some mentalities...but frankly CPF is still a very nice and friendly Forum !!
 

DieselDave

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People come and people go. CPF has had a number of ups and downs. Some good people have left for any number of reasons and other good ones arrived to take their place. Since I've started we've have always had members I choose to ignore. Some of them are still here and considered experts and I see them as nothing more than a fly in he ointment.

We often get new members with much to offer and some of the so-called experts shout them down and of course that street runs both ways. CPF has evolved. If you look at what it was in 2000-2001 (before me) they were a super close-knit group. They were close because there were so few members they all knew each other and treated each other with respect. Now we have thousands of members from all walks of life across the world. Some members are here for the love of torches and some with an agenda. CPF is nothing more than a slice of the world, a good slice IMO.

I think CPF's existence accelerated the advancement of cutting edge torches across the spectrum over the past year and even further back. I seriously doubt if the biggest name in the torch industry would be selling LED torches right now if it weren't for CPF. Our members, modders and other manufactures that work with many of our members forced them to change and for that we should be proud.

Is CPF worse than 1 year ago? It's different, it has rough spots, it's changed but I think it's better. We will always have members that are bad for CPF but we get more that are good. Our good members, 95%, essentially run the site now with only minimum input fromt he staff. 3 years ago we had to try and follow each and every thread closely. Now we have 3 times as many threads and it takes less of our time. I say CPF is better.
 

Manzerick

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I see what you're saying. When i was green the "oldies" were very helpful in getting me up to speed. Def. Missed! (though most are still here like Al, Don, and such)

As for the topics you mention Mr Carrot, I too miss them. It was a way to almost come together and talk about torches and not only their attributes all the time.

I use to start more "fluffy flashlight fun" threads like that as they are relevant, fun and just a good time but it I think i talked it to death LOL Just wait folks, more are coming...

I have to get back to work now.. (reading the whole thread was LONG but worhtit!! LOL)




carrot said:
>too long to quote<<.
 

Christoph

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No words of wisdom here from me.Things change all the time,its when things don't change that I would worry.I have gotten caught up in the latest and greatest race myself that comes from having discretionary funds and showing no discretion.I will be fixed with my next purchase I promise I will.:grin2::whistle::candle: There is so much more avalible to us these days and it changes from day to day.We live in interesting times. I can hardly wait to wake up each day and see what happens.:grin2:
C
 
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Thujone

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Firstly Carrot I respect everything you have said. I would just like to point out that there has been somewhat of an LED revolution in the past few months and a lot of the hype and excitement/consumerism is being driven by all of the new products coming out utilizing that new technology. If things slow down on the tech front you will see stabilization in the subject matter again. I have not noticed the changes you speak of any where other than the LED forum. Life is a roller coaster, enjoy the ride.
 

Greta

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Something that was said to me recently at SHOT has been on my mind and I've been waiting for an opportunity to

relate this little story... this seems a good thread to do so...



... All you gain by doing so is get bragging rights, and to someone for whom utility is much more

meaningful, bragging rights means little....



Talking with another CPF member regarding my personal preferences in a flashlight, I reached into my purse and

pulled out the two lights that I carry with me at all times... my EDC, if you will. An original Larry Light (1 of the first 5

made) and a recently aquired E1W. The other CPF members who were standing by and listening to the

conversation got that "look" on their faces with the indulgent smile that implied, "Well she's a chick... what does

she know about REAL flashlights?". I explained that the two lights suited my needs just perfectly... ever the

KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid!) Then the comment was made... "You must laugh at those of us who are

constantly talking about and wanting more lumens and functions etc". And my reply? "ABSOLUTELY NOT!!"... If

you need more lumens and functions for YOUR needs, then go for it! It just doesn't suit MY needs! I would

never even dream of laughing or demeaning anyone for what THEIR needs are... no more than I would

imagine anyone laughing at me because MY needs are much simpler... I really AM just a chick... and

other than shoes and purses, my needs are simple... ;) However... perhaps once or twice a year, when we have

a good rain, the washes run and flood the streets... and I can hear the water rushing by when I sit out on my back

patio. So I do have a very sweet L6 in order to keep an eye on the wash to make sure it's not getting too high up

to my back yard. And then there's the occasional pack of coyotes who decide to chase the bunnies in the wash...

the L6 does nicely to chase them away also.... :duck: Yes... CPF's collective attitude has definately changed

when it comes to actual individual utility. One doesn't NEED a power drill with a screwdriver attachment to

tighten the tiny screw at the corner of one's reading glasses... the tip of a steak knife in the kitchen drawer works

just fine... ;)

I say unless they're in your pocket, or in your bag, or in your hands being used, they have a value of zero.

That's right, ZERO. Because when they are not being used they have, for the most part, as much value as having

a shiny polished rock on your desk or shelves.



AGREED!! BUT!!... as one who has several "collections" of pretty, shiney things (miniature shoes, bulldog

statuettes, fairy statuettes, etc), "VALUE" is completely subjective. I have MANY "shelf queens". Most have only

been lit up once or twice. So why do I have them? Because I LIKE them! They are pretty to me and I simply

like having them and looking at them. And some day, they may even suit my needs for a particular task... who

knows? :shrug: I don't rule it out. The point is though that once upon a time, MY attitude about my

"collection" and my EDC would not have been scoffed at on CPF... not like that anymore... :shakehead



As I mentioned before, CPF has slowly coasted to a place where the flashlight hobby of using,

maintaining, designing and appreciating lights is becoming twisted and distilled to a sad state of greedy

materialistic armchair flashaholics. What was once a hobby is now a money drain, and lights are not so much

being purchased to actually use, but to behold and to show off. Mass consumerism at its finest, indeed. It is

saddening and it is disturbing, and it is driving away more experienced CPFers.

This has greatly disturbed me as well and "fixing" it is no easy task... especially when it seems to change quicker

than I can keep up with it. But rest assured... my goal is to get back some of what you speak of. I have taken

steps toward this... and they will see fruition within the year... hopefully within the next 3-6 months, if all goes

well... too many "snags" to go into here... but progress *IS* being made!.. and hopefully, CPF can and will

be a place for everyone... :)



Thank you carrot... very constructive post... :twothumbs:
 

cabindriver

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Joined
Apr 3, 2003
Messages
120
Carrot,
Thanks for your well-thought-out post. There's much to digest. Just a quick comment for now, I think CPF IS a place for everyone. When I need an answer I know just where to look. I'm not caught up in any current manias over the latest lights. That may change when the new HDS's are released;) For those who are, that's just fine. I don't follow the current "mine is brighter than yours" threads. I've realized that most of my light use is for dim lights such as the EDC on low or the Proton on low; times when I'm camping or at home when I want to preserve my night vision. I also have bright lights for when they're warranted.

For me, I feel that this is still largely a community. I've bought and sold lights to and with members and we have shipped them to each other before payment was received. I wouldn't do that on just any forum.

I also know people around here are willing to help. Witness the thread in headlamps about modding an Eos. I have some Coleman Sentinels(Freeplays) that I would like to mod. I know I will receive helpful anwers when I ask, perhaps even offers to do them for me.

This is a worthwhile discussion, I hope it continues.

Sasha said:
This has greatly disturbed me as well and "fixing" it is no easy task... especially when it seems to change quicker

than I can keep up with it. But rest assured... my goal is to get back some of what you speak of. I have taken

steps toward this... and they will see fruition within the year... hopefully within the next 3-6 months, if all goes

well... too many "snags" to go into here... but progress *IS* being made!.. and hopefully, CPF can and will

be a place for everyone... :)



Thank you carrot... very constructive post... :twothumbs:
 
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