Fenix P2D CE.... if only

Hi All,

with the P1D CE, Fenix seem to have the lightest, most compact flashlight using the Cree XRE emitter. But it only has one CR123A battery, thus limiting the runtime. Does anyone know if Fenix have any plans to produce an equivalent version with 2 x CR123A (or an 18650 - super long runtime)? I guess they'd call it the P2D CE, and it would be the best emergency flashlight you ever saw. It need only be about 4cm longer and maybe 10-15 grams heavier, otherwise identical.

I know there are a few 2 x CR123A units out there (Lumapower etc.), and they're all very good, but with a bit too much weight and size for a genuine emergency light.

Stay bright,

JohnnyM.

L2D-CE kind but for an 18650 --> sold
twistie: forget it

The L2D CE is the closest so far

yellow said:

L2D-CE kind but for an 18650 --> sold
twistie: forget it

Click to expand...

Yeah, I should have added a clicky too. When you got one of those one-handed emergencies...

Been searching the Cree XRE / Seoul P4 lists. Anyone know how big (or small) the VB-16 is?

Cheers,

JM

Now it is reality!

The Name is the P3D CE and it as you had hoped (and a bit more)

2 x CR123a = 160 Lumens

They are due out from Fenix on the 20th of April, I will have mine before the end of the month.

http://www.glowgadgets.co.uk/osc9005/product_info.php?cPath=22_45&products_id=148 remember your CPF'ers discount :rock:

Cheers,

Doc

GlowGadgets.com said:

Now it is reality!

The Name is the P3D CE and it as you had hoped (and a bit more)

2 x CR123a = 160 Lumens

They are due out from Fenix on the 20th of April, I will have mine before the end of the month.

http://www.glowgadgets.co.uk/osc9005/product_info.php?cPath=22_45&products_id=148 remember your CPF'ers discount :rock:

Cheers,

Doc

Click to expand...

Hm. Compared to the L2D, the claimed run time is about 20% longer at comparable light levels, and the turbo output is about 20% greater (maybe just barely perceptible) but with only 75% of the run time. I'd guess that the L2D would run longer than the L3D even in the low light level modes if you put NiMH cells in it. So the L3D doesn't really have any significant performance advantage over the L2D. It should be smaller and lighter though, as a trade for the more expensive batteries.

c_c

I think P3D CE is severly over-driven at '160' lumens because Cree are naturally about 125-135 lumens. Or maybe Fenix is once again exaggerating the output just like the P2D-CE which is truthfully only 120 lumens, NOT 135 lumens.

And why didnt they make it to operate on an 18650 also ? Right there they dropped the ball, IMHO.

Fenix P2D-CE is this one:

http://www.qualityflashlights.at/termekekmainGe.php?csoportid=38

Best regards

____
Tom

... severly over-driven at '160' lumens because ...
naturally about 125-135 lumens ...

Click to expand...

:thinking:
isnt this depending on the current?

cree XR-E P4 stats: 350 mA 80-87 lumen, current up to 1 A possible, about 136 lm @ 700 mA, about 176 @ 1000 mA.

this seems to be very true for the L2D:
if current to led = 700 mA, then about 136 lm at die, distract 5 % loss at reflector and 10 % loss at glass = about 115 lm, which is actual value.
proof with runtime: Ni-Mhs 2500 mA, 700 mA draw at led, multiply with 20 % (loss at circuit) and multiply with 1/3 the converter has to push up the voltage and multiply with the 2.5 hours runtime
700 * 1.2 * 1.33 * 2.5 = 2790 mA
--> looks to me that the led inside does not see 700 mA and thus the output is very good AND totally within specs given from the manufacturer.
Theres no magic here, just tech logic. Not enough current for xxx lumen? --> no xxx lumen!

drive 'em hard, sink 'em good --> more than 130 Lm!
PS: my 6P w. cree, FLUPIC 900 mA, gives more than 120 lm


PS: size of this P3D is a good start, now with 18650 please

xiaowenzu said:

I think P3D CE is severly over-driven at '160' lumens because Cree are naturally about 125-135 lumens. Or maybe Fenix is once again exaggerating the output just like the P2D-CE which is truthfully only 120 lumens, NOT 135 lumens.

Click to expand...

Overdriving an LED is a question of junction temperature. You are overdriving when you exceed the manufacturer's specified maximum junction temperature. Therefore heat-sink design is crucial.

For example, there's a light over on the Homebuilt&Modified forum made from 10 Cree's, driven at 1.8 amps each. The builder has incorporated a large fan-cooled heat sink which appears to keep those Cree's alive. Don't know anything about junction temperature so it may be a pretty serious overdrive situation even with the fan.

Long John said:

Fenix P2D-CE is this one:

http://www.qualityflashlights.at/termekekmainGe.php?csoportid=38

Best regards

____
Tom

Click to expand...

Now it makes a bit more sense, i was wondering why it was called the P3D-CE instead of P2D-CE...
now i know, the P2D-CE name was already taken, which is essentially a P1D-CE with a clicky switch.

The output mode has also changed, the lowest mode is lower, which will give extra run time.

P2D-CE
General Mode: 9 lumens (30hrs) -> 40 lumens (5.5hrs) -> 80 lumens (2hrs) -> SOS
Turbo Mode: 135 lumens (1hrs) -> Strobe

P1D-CE
5 Output Levels: 72 lumens (2.8hrs) -> 135 lumens (1hrs) -> 12 lumens (21hrs) -> Strobe -> SOS

xiaowenzu said:

I think P3D CE is severly over-driven at '160' lumens because Cree are naturally about 125-135 lumens. Or maybe Fenix is once again exaggerating the output just like the P2D-CE which is truthfully only 120 lumens, NOT 135 lumens.

Click to expand...

What we really don't know, as with a lot of company statements, is wether this is net output lumens or lumens at the emitter . I had an Aleph A19 with the Cree XR-E P4 driven at 739mA that was 160 lumens at the emitter, but after heat, reflector, and lens loss, it netted 140-145 lumens. Some companies like to inflate thier specs, some, like Surefire, might even under-inflate thier specs. I tend to believe these are emitter lumens, not net lumens. I could be wrong or I could be right

Hmmm. I happen to be a big fan of the P1D-CE, for three specific reasons: because it is pocketable (roughly the size of a typical Swiss Army Knife); because it uses CR123A; and because it has the output of the Cree 7090 XR-E.

The big change on the P2D-CE appears to be the clicky. I understand the modes have changed around a bit also, but for me personally, the clicky really defines the P2D-CE. And obviously makes it bigger. Which takes up more room in my pocket. No thanks. I'll be keeping my P1D-CE for now.

Now the P3D-CE, on the other hand, might be interesting. It's a different beast. 2xCR123A is not a pocketable light anymore (not in MY pocket, anyway) so, please, go right ahead and add the additional size of the clicky. But... do I understand this is a reverse clicky? That's unfortunate.

Fenix is amazing - this P3D CE sounds awesome - only problem, already have more than enough flashlights!

but maybe just one more...

Pokerstud said:

What we really don't know, as with a lot of company statements, is wether this is net output lumens or lumens at the emitter...

Click to expand...

There's another possibility. I've seen various sources that have measured the P1D-CE on Max and come up with about 110 lumens, versus Fenix claimed 135 lumens. That's a loss of about 18%, which might be due to reflector/lens loss, or it might be due to junction temperature rise. Cree datasheet shows 100% output at 25C junction temperature, and you see it fall to 82% at a junction temp of 95C... a temperature which sounds reasonable to me for a light running on Max.

I may not agree, but at least I can see the logic behind a manufacturer who takes readings at the instant a cold flashlight is started up and bases claims on that. It's not my favorite way to do business but at least I understand it... the fact is that I will see 135 lumens with my own eyes, if only briefly. On the other hand it's not even a flashlight with the optics removed, and that is a very dishonest way to inflate an output claim.

by the way - translating the price from pounds to dollars you get $88.61, or about $90 if you round.

maybe a bit cheaper for the more competitive US market.

xiaowenzu said:

I think P3D CE is severly over-driven at '160' lumens because Cree are naturally about 125-135 lumens.

Click to expand...

Cree was originally only designed for 700mA testing, giving 160 lumen output. However, further testing has revealed that it can actually be reliably driven at 1000mA, giving 210 lumen output. So, 160 lumens is perfectly possible without overdriving in the slightest

Proof is in the pudding...
http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1169819309344

MikeSalt said:

Cree was originally only designed for 700mA testing, giving 160 lumen output. However, further testing has revealed that it can actually be reliably driven at 1000mA, giving 210 lumen output. So, 160 lumens is perfectly possible without overdriving in the slightest...

Click to expand...

Wait a second. Note the disclaimer "...up to..." in the press release. You really want to focus on TYPICAL numbers, not max numbers. It's 80lm at 350mA, 136 lm at 700mA, and 176 lm at 1A. And, this is very important: AT 25 CELCIUS.

Someone please chime and and tell me that they will be releasing an 18650 body for the edit3Dce. That would be the light I have been wanting.