Any cavers here?

Just curious, any cavers here? Lights you use? Tips and suggestions? I always read that we need to bring spare bulbs, I guess does not apply to LED, or does it? Spare batteries, does this rule apply to LED? How's the blueish light from an LED in a cave?

Call me a part time caver. I really don't like bulbs in caves - I've had bad experiences with incandesents. It's LEDs all the way for me now, but having a backup light source is always a good idea. Spare batteries are essential. I personally use Eneloops for power because I'm tired of poor quality NiMHs and their low self discharge is handy when I'm not caving. I take spare Eneloops, although a backup (hopefully unused) set of alkaline is a good idea for use with LED.

Many LEDs now are very nicely white, especially the Luxeon K2 I tried out in April. But even if they are a bit blue, I think I'd rather put up with it and enjoy the colour-consistency, brightness, runtime and durability than have something which goes from yellow to a yucky brown colour, has an uneven beam, chews through batteries, and burns out before I get out of the cave.

Caves can be a brutal environment for lights. In general you don't want to take a nice light (HDS, Surefire U2, etc) to many caves. Lights often get scuffed, scratched, caked with mud, dented, etc.

However this depends on the type of cave. I took my HDS to Mammoth Cave, Ky, but that was a stand-up walking tour.

For smaller caves where crawling is necessary, I'd take a less expensive light.

Your main focus should be a headlamp, not a hand held light. A hand held light should be supplementary, not the primary illumination source. See http://www.flashlightreviews.com/ for headlamp reviews, also there are various headlamps manufactured for the mineing industry. http://www.brightguy.com/results.php?Search=keyword&Keyword=G has a good selection of headlamps.

Each person should have at least three independent light sources, e.g. headlamp, plus flashlight, plus AAA or Photon-type light.

joema said:

Caves can be a brutal environment for lights. In general you don't want to take a nice light (HDS, Surefire U2, etc) to many caves. Lights often get scuffed, scratched, caked with mud, dented, etc.

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Yeah. In "etc" I'd include "waterproof lights end up half full of water."

I used to do some caving. I have a TAG lite I bought from Bob & Bob a few years ago. I screwed up the head trying to modify it so i have to order a new head for $33.00.

joema said:

Each person should have at least three independent light sources, e.g. headlamp, plus flashlight, plus AAA or Photon-type light.

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A backup headlamp might be handier than a backup torch, and I remember at least one CPF member finding out it's really good to wear a backup light. In other words, not in one's backpack (which might be left elsewhere) or in a pocket (from where it could fall out while crawling head first down a hole).

And don't cave alone.

I have been wanting to go so if anyone in the SF Bay Area wants to join up, let me know!

I use a Princeton Tec Yukon XL [luxeon & 5mm leds] headlamp, a StreamLight ProPoly 4AA Lux, a Nuwai 253 [or 352?] 5w Lux with a Streamlight Corona headlamp for backup. Next time I may take my L2D and/or my newly aquired [from BST] Innova X5 in also.

I like floody lights generally in a cave, but always carry one thrower too.

i use my PT apex as primary with my McG 27lt as secondary and spotting. works flawless. the 27lt is bombproof, id trust my life to it. and i birng my spares in a surefire spares carrier. and a pelican 1010 full of AA's any other cavers in the chattanooga,TN area on this forum?

I don't see the point in investing mucho $$$ for lights if they are not going to be used in harzadous environment such as caves etc. I buy my lights for what it is designed for ....lighting. They are to me tools and thus should be treated as such. So for caving having a waterproof or dunkable one would be ideal. And bring along lots of rechargeables or primaries which ever your choice. A headlamp is a must as it leaves your hands free for other duties.

"part time" hobby caver here.
mostly dry caves without rapelling (where You can bring other ppl with You)

headlamps are No.1, small handheld (LANYARD!!) good.
High power not needed too much (depends on size of the cave and the other lights used).
imho something like Fenix or Magled (size & power) is much more than the "average" ppl bring with them and are perfectly suited.
more rugged lights (Streamlight propolymers) even better.
No blue at all with the newer, better led.
one bright light (or bright light level) is good to bring along

Serious caving = azetylene lamp
endless light source when there is water inside the cave, very nice area light (best I have seen so far inside the dark)
http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesProduits?Critere=57&Produit=233

yellow said:

"part time" hobby caver here.
mostly dry caves without rapelling (where You can bring other ppl with You)

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If you're being careful with ropes and not playing silly beggers near the edge you shouldn't have much risk of taking people with you.

yellow said:

Serious caving = azetylene lamp
endless light source when there is water inside the cave, very nice area light (best I have seen so far inside the dark)

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Acetylene lamps produce quite nice light, but they use carbide, so it's not an endless light source, and carbide is getting very unfashionable around here - pollution issues in particular. (Calcium hydroxide isn't nice.) From http://www.caves.org.nz/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NZSS/Ethics (emphasis added)...

7. We will carry spent carbide out of the cave and wherever possible, encourage the use of battery operated lights.

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did not mention this, because it should be obvious ...

carbide is hazardous, yes
used carbide changes to :thinking: dunno, but its totally environmental friendly (as far as we have been told when most cavers still used them. Now, if You are not inside for some days, led is an alternative)
whoever does not take his pure carbide out of whereever he brought it, is an idiot.

There wont go much carbide into that "burner" thing and if one brings a handful of it (inside a watertight housing) AND there is water inside the cave, this might hold on for a good week of continuous lighting. Do this with batt powered lights.
(of course changing the lime with new carbide needs a 2nd light)

i would like to go caving but not the repelling kind. the tourist trap kid wear you are just crawling in dirt rather than hanging off lines.

afraid of heights?

mossyoak said:

afraid of heights?

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yes and no
yes, if i'm looking off a cliff with no railing. no if i'm rock climbing and have a harness on. more like afraid of death :naughty:

basically it's hard enough to find any friends that will do camping with facilities like hot shower and toilets than any willing to jump into a hole with strings on them. you guys are cool, my friends are not:mecry:

so youll only camp with hot showers and bathrooms nearby?

i must not be very cool, im terrified of height but love rapelling, if it high in the cave turn off the lights (or ptu them on the lowest level) going into the abyss isnt that scary.

I was a beginners climber some years ago (6+) but rapelling inside a cave?
maybe with ppl who have not even been into caves already?
I'm always happy if they dont go panic, when its a bit tight and maybe muddy/slippery

bring some long running lights + spare batts + warm clothes + water + meal with You, and tell someone what cave You entered and when You plan to arrive at home again


Show the prospective partners some cavers movies like "the Decent" or ... before entering

"the cave" is my personal favorite pre spelunking film.