3D Mag ROP or Mag85?

I already have an 3D cell Mag. What would be the best confirguration to convert this over to a Mag-ROP? I have read many of the ROP threads, but most talk about 2 and 4+ D and C cell setups. Not much talk about a 3D setup. Thanks!

Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?

Not the best choice for a ROP. I generally do ROPs in a smaller form factor (though I have done a 6D one also and didn't like the performance- I prefer the ROP bulb at higher voltages than come out of 6 NiMHs)
A ROP is typically run on 6 or 7 AA size NiMHs or a couple of AWs LiIons, or other equivalent voltages. You can certainly make various stups that will fit and work but what's next would prbably be easier for you.

If you change to a KIU bipin socket or buy an FM adapter for bipin bulbs you can do an 1185 that is a bunch brighter than a ROP and IMO, a usefully better light because the bulb is simply a better flashlight bulb in ways other than just brightness. Then you need either 9aa to 3D adapter (FM when available) or fit 3 AW C Lions or similar.

Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?

Thanks! Hmmmm....

Mag85 vs. MAG ROP: So, really the only difference is the bi-pin adapter and bulb....

Mag85:

1. Bi-pin adapter $30 (FM) $12 (KIU)
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=155120
or
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=132235

2. WA1185 bi-pin bulb (FM) $6 or (Light-Edge) $5.50
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796
or
http://www.light-edge.com/proddetail.asp?section=Super%20Bulbs&prod=WA01185BP

3. Camless stippled metal reflector (MOP) $23 (MM) or Cammed (LOP) $18 (Light-Edge)
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=103180&highlight=Camless+MOP
or
http://light-edge.com/products.asp?section=Mag Reflectors&cat=42

4. A glass lense (UCL) $7 or (Borofloat) $5.50
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1542
or
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1079

5. 9AA>3D adapter - $40
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796

MAG ROP:

1. Pelican FL-3854 - $8
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1070

4. A glass lense (UCL) $7 or (Borofloat) $5.50
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1542
or
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1079

3. Camless stippled metal reflector (MOP) $23 (MM) or Cammed (LOP) $18 (Light-Edge)
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=103180&highlight=Camless+MOP
or
http://light-edge.com/products.asp?section=Mag Reflectors&cat=42

4. 9AA>3D adapter - $40
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796

Any battery preferences for the 9AA>3D between the two mods?

And maybe a Smart Charger - $30
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=147622

Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?

racer7 said:

... for bipin bulbs you can do an 1185 that is a bunch brighter than a ROP and IMO, a usefully better light because the bulb is simply a better flashlight bulb in ways other than just brightness.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Could you explain this bit in layman's terms?

Thanks

I would concur that a 3D is not an ideal ROP host, unless you wanted to run a 9AA pack with 2 dummy cells. Apparently the ROP high does quite well with 7 AAs, noticeably brighter than the 6 cell 2D version.

But, if it was me, I'd go 1185 with 9 cells as it is brighter than the ROP. Not a huge difference, but might as well get all lumens you reasonably can out of a particular form factor.

Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?

robm said:

Hi,

Could you explain this bit in layman's terms?

Thanks

Click to expand...

The Welsch Allen Bulb is one of the best bi-pins bulbs around. The pelican bulb has a PR base which is much more failure prone then a properly run 1185.

The simplest mod is using the Pelican bulb. You don't have to mod the bulb base at all.

:thanks:

So this is a reliability benefit?

I just like to know what the thinking is behind a conclusion of 'better' or 'best'

For me, a ROP is 'better', because I only have 2D mags!

BSBG said:

Apparently the ROP high does quite well with 7 AAs, noticeably brighter than the 6 cell 2D version.

Click to expand...

Good to know, thanks.

BSBG said:

But, if it was me, I'd go 1185 with 9 cells as it is brighter than the ROP. Not a huge difference, but might as well get all lumens you reasonably can out of a particular form factor.

Click to expand...

Spoken like a true flashaholic!

Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?

jdriller said:

The pelican bulb has a PR base which is much more failure prone then a properly run 1185.

Click to expand...

Is it really known for failure though? I haven't heard/read of anyone discussing their failure as a result of it being a PR base bulb.

I would love to do either one of these mods right now, but seeing how I can't seem to find the 1185 bulb available right now, it doesn't look like I will be able to try for the Mag85 which is what I prefer.

Plus, both mods are turning out to be a little more expensive than what I was first thinking. Mainly due to the battery adapter ($40 ouch) and possibly new NiMHs.

Here's a ROP primer for nimh and link to li edition showing many variations or ROP, didn't see one for 7 cells.

http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9

In this thread is several sources ROP bulbs.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/155745

ROP is appealing because of it's potted bulb thus less expensive.

Jim

didn't see one for 7 cells.

Click to expand...

I'm assuming an 8AA holder and a dummy AA cell to make a 7AA ROP. I had read it is much brighter then the 6 cell setup.

Modamag has them here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=96929

I was thinking of trying the 9AA-3D / Series / 10.8V ... $15 (for the kit) and $20 (for the completed unit) and using a dummy cell and hoping for no instaflash. Most likely I will have to use 7 cells and 2 dummies though. Again, better then $40.

In this thread is several sources ROP bulbs.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Getting the Pelican bulb for a ROP is not a problem right now (Lighthound has them in stock) however. Actually it looks like FM has the WA1185 bi-pin bulb in stock!

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796

Would these work ok in a 3D Mag for either the ROP or Mag85 setup?

3AA to 1D Battery Holder ( series connection ) : 3$ each
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=119033

$9 is much better then $40. BUT I am thinking that it won't work for the Mag85...

BobbyRS said:

I'm assuming an 8AA holder and a dummy AA cell to make a 7AA ROP. I had read it is much brighter then the 6 cell setup.

Modamag has them here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=96929

I blown so many ROP HO with 6 cells, did all the "fixes", I bet you can get just as much lumens out the lens with 6, not overly moded, as you can with 7 cells. In fact the next ROP planning on doing one fix at a time working my way up hopefully before instant area.

I was thinking of trying the 9AA-3D / Series / 10.8V ... $15 and using a dummy cell and hoping for no instaflash. Again, better then $40.

Thanks! Getting the Pelican bulb for a ROP is not a problem right now (Lighthound has them in stock) however. Actually it looks like FM has the WA1185 bi-pin bulb in stock!

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796

Would these work ok in a 3D Mag for either the ROP or Mag85 setup?

3AA to 1D Battery Holder ( series connection ) : 3$ each
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=119033

$9 is much better then $40. BUT I am thinking that it won't work for the Mag85...

Click to expand...

Yeah $9 vs. $40 although you get what you pay for.

9AASto3D holder has less resistance, = more V to the bulb. I got some 1/4" copper plate from the salvage yard and cut some 1/4x1/4x2" for dummies which worked great in a 8AA+1 with 1164.

9AA holder + 2 dummies could run wa1111 but need a bipin socket.

Using 7 cells you might want all the resistance you can get then the 3AA/D makes sense and don't need to do any of the "fixes."

Jim

jimjones3630 said:

I blown so many ROP HO with 6 cells, did all the "fixes", I bet you can get just as much lumens out the lens with 6, not overly moded, as you can with 7 cells. In fact the next ROP planning on doing one fix at a time working my way up hopefully before instant area.

Click to expand...

Interesting quote:

LumenHound said:

6 AA sized hot off the charger cells will not instaflash the HI or LOW bulb.

7 comercial variety AA sized rested cells will not instaflash the HI or LOW bulb.

If you can, use 7 AA sized rested cells. You'll get more lumens out the front and the beam will be closer to white. The Pelican bulbs are surprisingly robust.

You shouldn't have any problems with AA sized cells rested for 8 hours or more.

Click to expand...

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1788736&postcount=191

jimjones3630 said:

Yeah $9 vs. $40 although you get what you pay for.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but how much better is it to justify being more then twice as much?

jimjones3630 said:

9AA holder + 2 dummies could run wa1111 but need a bipin socket.

Click to expand...

If I got the bi-pin socket, then wouldn't it make more sense to stick with the wa1185 and 9 cells with no dummies?

BobbyRS said:

Originally Posted by jimjones3630
Yeah $9 vs. $40 although you get what you pay for.
Yeah, but how much better is it to justify being more then twice as much?

Click to expand...

I haven't got a 9 cell version, but have got the 6 cell ones (for a ROP HO), and in my setup the difference between the $6 and $38 is about 20% difference in output, or 100 lumens (~500 to ~600)

The 1185 is a lot of light and more than enough in some cases. Can always use it's LO bulb, 1166. It depends on what you want and the mission.

A 18AA in 9sx2p with 1185 is my go to light when call out in the middle of the night. Bright enough and long run time.

I like versatility and get a kick out of swapping parts and bulbs around. Trying to stuff 12 6s2p 18650's into it now and output 250w.

The 6 cells I reliable instantflashed ROP Ho bulbs with are tenery sc 3800mah in a 5C M@g which now holds a wa1111 and not instantflashed one yet.

Jim

BobbyRS said:

jimjones3630 said:

Yeah $9 vs. $40 although you get what you pay for.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but how much better is it to justify being more then twice as much?

Click to expand...

It is that much better. The 3AA->D holders that LITEmania sells are OK, but they're smaller in diameter than a D cell and tend to rattle around in D Mags. FM's 9AA->3D holder is a very nice piece, and fits perfectly in a 3D Mag. And the charging port is a nice bonus.

I really like the flexibility of the 3D Mag + FM 9AA->3D holder. It makes a great hotwire test platform.

oh with a 3D I'd do an 1185 without question. It's just a better bulb to begin with an it will be brighter with really good run time. Pretty hard to go wrong with an 85.

I'm the guy who initially opined that the 1185 is a better bulb than the ROP HI.

Here's are a few reasons
1) The ROP bulb tends to be yellowish (too low color temp) for my taste on 6 NiMHs. Doesn't matter if its Ds or AAs or who the cell maker is. That means you really need to run a ROP HI on 7 NiMHs for my taste.

2) Problem is that when you run it on 7, it is quite prone to instaflash on fresh cells. I'm not much for the silliness of "resting" stuff - I rarely plan 8 hrs ahead about using a battery powered device and may grab "hot" cells to run anything from cameras and strobes to flashlights. (I've got about a dozen 110 outlets occupied with chargers at my charger station and have capability for essentially all common cylindrical NiMHs and lithiums in many varieties including Cs and most of the common Sony camera and camcorder batteries as well as other brands)

3) If you run the ROP on a 6 NiMH cell equivalent in C-Lions (a pair) and compare it to a Welch Allyn 1111, you will see that the 1111 is whiter and generally has a better formed beam. (The 2C 1111 with an AW starter and a MOP/UCL is a very nice and compact light.) The 1185 is basically an up-voltage and brighter 1111 and otherwise very similar.

4) In the 3 cell size (3C-Lions in a C light or 9AA in a D light), the 1185 is similarly white, brighter than a ROP on 7, so why would one want to fabricate a couple dummy cells for 3D light to run a ROP in that size when you could stick 3 C Lions in the tube or just buy a smaller 3C light? A the 3C Lion 1185 is compact and has a passable balance of power/runtime for its size. Its got good color and is not prone to instaflash, at least in my hands.

5) I see no good reason to use a potted bulb that can run as hot as a ROP, 1111, or 1185, etc. The bipin is better choice for high temps both for the bulb and socket design.



C Lions are more convenient than sets of AA NiMHs as long as you are within the amp limits of protected C cells. They hold a charge a lot longer, you can charge them in or out of holders (you can get C holders at RS and daisy chain them on a 777 charger or multiple other similar alternatives) and lights just like AAs, etc.

I sort of already believed that FM's 9AA>3D adapter was much better. Just wanting to hear a little as to why. So, thanks for listing some great points as to why!