fenix beam question

ok, I have not been able to find the answer to my question searching so...

I have the P1 CE Q2 and I just received my new P1D CE Q5, when I shine the beam on a surface about 8 to 10 feet I notice that the Q2 has a nice bright white beam. however comparing the Q5 it looks yellowish green not white like:thinking: my Q2. Is this considered a warmer light? Is there a advantage to this. or is it a fault?

I'm afraid that binning and tint are two separate variables. Whilst you have the high efficiency Q5, you are still bound to a 'tint lottery', in which you could get a less than ideal output.

It is not considered a fault, but David (4sevens) will replace it if the tint is really offensive.

I was going to get a P1 CE pocket rocket modded to a Q5 by 4sevens @ Fenix, but he pushed the Q2 upgrade instead. I didn't question reasons for it and just went for what he suggested, he knows way better than me! It should be here tomorrow actually.................. hearing that your Q2 seems nicer makes me happy! Maybe the Q5 doesn't perform up to it's potential until it's given higher voltage? Of course what do I know, now I'm just parroting what I've read elsewhere here on CPF!

craigberesh said:

ok, I have not been able to find the answer to my question searching so...

I have the P1 CE Q2 and I just received my new P1D CE Q5, when I shine the beam on a surface about 8 to 10 feet I notice that the Q2 has a nice bright white beam. however comparing the Q5 it looks yellowish green not white like:thinking: my Q2. Is this considered a warmer light? Is there a advantage to this. or is it a fault?

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I received mine on Monday, I noticed the same thing about the beam. Also there is a shadow-like ring around the hotspot.

It could be a matter of personal preference but I think a whiter beam reveals target colors far more accurately than a greenish tinted beam. So, in short, and for me personally I would call this a fault. This doesn't qualify as "premium" to me.

I'm really spoiled though, my NovaTac 120P beam is perfect in terms of color, hotspot, spill - you name it. Amilite is also near perfect IMO.

I was a little surprised fo find this in the P1D-CE Q5. The Tiablo A9 uses the same emitter and has no such issues, whatsoever.

I don't think Fenix specifies which tint bin you get, do they? I know the Tiablo A9 stated it came with a Q5 WC tint so you have a better idea of what you get. For those who want a low cost flashlght with a Q5 you take a chance on the tint. If you want a specific tint you look for a light that advertises an emitter with the tint bin you want, or you mod your light with a LED that you selected.

I don't think it's fair to hold dealers or manufacturers accountable if you buy a light that doesn't promiss a certain tint bin, etc. Many dealers will offer to exchange lights based on tint, but I think they should charge a fee to do it. Maybe dealers could charge a fee for people that want a hand picked light based on tint to prevent all the exchanges going on.

WadeF said:

I don't think Fenix specifies which tint bin you get, do they? I know the Tiablo A9 stated it came with a Q5 WC tint so you have a better idea of what you get. For those who want a low cost flashlght with a Q5 you take a chance on the tint. If you want a specific tint you look for a light that advertises an emitter with the tint bin you want, or you mod your light with a LED that you selected.

I don't think it's fair to hold dealers or manufacturers accountable if you buy a light that doesn't promiss a certain tint bin, etc. Many dealers will offer to exchange lights based on tint, but I think they should charge a fee to do it. Maybe dealers could charge a fee for people that want a hand picked light based on tint to prevent all the exchanges going on.

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I understand where you are coming from. However, I am concerned, are you saying that if the advertising doesn't promise a "white beam" or whatever... that the buyer should be stuck with the light or pay for an exchange?

I disagree. And furthermore, if it comes to this type of marketing and sales I won't be a buyer - ever. Maybe you don't mind, but personally, I do mind. I don't consider the P1D-CE Q5 a "low cost flashlight." To me "low cost flashlights" are the variety available at a number of Asian online retailers. The P1D Q5 is advertised as "Premium" and the implication is that it is limited production and somehow superior. My Ultrafire Rebel EMR1 (2nd gen) is vastly superior in beam quality when compared to the P1D-CE Q5 and I'm talking tint/color, output, absence of artifacts, etc. Now the EMR1 IS a low cost flashlight. $27 vs $60+ for the Fenix. In all fairness, I haven't compared the runtime or efficiencies of these two lights. I'm referring to only beam quality.

The kind of marketing you are referring to in your second paragraph is repugnant to me. It means that manufacturers and retailers can put together substandard products and ship them out and know that they will make money on either "exchange fees" or restocking fees. I will not buy from such dealers or manufacturers - EVER! And personally, I do hold them responsible for what they sell.

I'm a small businessman in a wholesale business. I stand behind my products 100%. If a customer is dissatisfied for ANY reason I will refund or exchange their product. This is the only ethical way to run a business IMO. And it keeps my customers loyal and satisfied. Not holding vendors/manufacturers responsible is unconscionable to me. Why not just send them a donation and forget about holding them responsible for anything?

Did you get if from Fenixstore.com?

Dr.K said:

Did you get if from Fenixstore.com?

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I did in fact. And I am NOT referring to them in my above post. I'm simply replying to Wade's post.

I think Fenixstore.com is top notch and a fair and honest retailer that offers a 30 day return policy without unfair "exchange fees" or restocking fees.

This is what I'm talking about: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/176358 now that's the way to do business!

robo21 said:

My Ultrafire Rebel EMR1 (2nd gen) is vastly superior in beam quality when compared to the P1D-CE Q5 and I'm talking tint/color, output, absence of artifacts, etc. Now the EMR1 IS a low cost flashlight. $27 vs $60+ for the Fenix. In all fairness, I haven't compared the runtime or efficiencies of these two lights. I'm referring to only beam quality.

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You're comparing a Rebel to a CREE Q5. Q5's are still rare, and the really nice white tints, like WC, are rarer yet. Fenix may not have been able to get WC tints, or couldn't justify the price. When you buy a flahlight that doesn't specify the tint bin you should know you are taking a chance on the tint. You could buy 10 flashlights and not get a tint you like. I'm just saying, when is it too much? I think if someone is going to be picky about the tint, and wants a nice white beam, then they shouldn't buy a flashlight that doesn't state what bin the emitter is. You could go look for a light that offers a Q5 WC, and you'll probably have to pay more to get it.

Sould Fenix offer a limited run of 100, or 500, P1D Q5's WC's so they have a "Premium" product, or should they make 5,000 P1D Q5's with whatever Q5's they can get their hands on that have a tint that would be acceptable to most people?

Fortunately for people who take a chance on the tint, that really want something specific tint wise, there are dealers like fenix-store that do want to make sure their customers are happy and they will offer exchanges until the customer gets what they want.

In the end the customer is happy, but the dealer may have taken a hit. I guess I just have a problem if the dealer has to take a hit because someone wants custom specs from a production light.

I have a P1D-CE P4, P3D P4 which was modded to Q5 by fenix-store, P3D Rebel100, and a P2D Q2. They all have slightly different tints. My P3D P4 was kind of purplish, but it was within what I felt was normal for a P4 without a certain tint bin specified.

Now I have other LED lights that have very white beams, which I expected them to have, because they were Q2 WC bins, etc. If I got a Q2 WC that had a tint outside of what a WC should be, then I may consider an exchage.

Also some of the dealers that hang on CPF offer us discounts, so when we buy something from them with a discount code and then we want an exchange because there is a slight green or purple cast to the beam they are taking a bigger hit.

robo21 said:

I think Fenixstore.com is top notch and a fair and honest retailer that offers a 30 day return policy without unfair "exchange fees" or restocking fees.

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I agree, Fenixstore.com is a great dealer and they get all my Fenix business. They may not charge exchange fees, which to you would be unfair to you if they did, but does anyone ever think what is unfair to them an other dealers that exchange a product because there's a bit of a green cast to the beam, or a bit of purple, blue, even though that's normal for that product and the emitters used?

Wow I am starting to get bummed. I have a P1 Q5 coming in the next day or two and was excited. Now I am hoping I'm not too let down.
Gotta think positive!
:duh2::thumbsup:

olrac said:

Wow I am starting to get bummed. I have a P1 Q5 coming in the next day or two and was excited. Now I am hoping I'm not too let down.
Gotta think positive!
:duh2::thumbsup:

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I'm sure you'll love it.

If You all had read in here a bit, You might have noticed, that most every user likes another tint,
normally the ppl seem to want the warmer and ask fenix-store (or the dealer else) if possible to exchange their cold/blue model with a warmer.

Just ask if an exchange is possible, or, better, play around a week with both lights and see which tint You really like.

WadeF said:

You're comparing a Rebel to a CREE Q5. Q5's are still rare, and the really nice white tints, like WC, are rarer yet. Fenix may not have been able to get WC tints, or couldn't justify the price. When you buy a flahlight that doesn't specify the tint bin you should know you are taking a chance on the tint. You could buy 10 flashlights and not get a tint you like. I'm just saying, when is it too much? I think if someone is going to be picky about the tint, and wants a nice white beam, then they shouldn't buy a flashlight that doesn't state what bin the emitter is. You could go look for a light that offers a Q5 WC, and you'll probably have to pay more to get it.

Sould Fenix offer a limited run of 100, or 500, P1D Q5's WC's so they have a "Premium" product, or should they make 5,000 P1D Q5's with whatever Q5's they can get their hands on that have a tint that would be acceptable to most people?

Fortunately for people who take a chance on the tint, that really want something specific tint wise, there are deaers like fenix-store that do want to make sure their customers are happy and they will offer exchanges until the customer gets what they want.

In the end the customer is happy, but the dealer may have taken a hit. I guess I just have a problem if the dealer has to take a hit because someone wants custom specs from a production light.

I have a P1D-CE P4, P3D P4 which was modded to Q5 by fenix-store, P3D Rebel100, and a P2D Q2. They all have slightly different tints. My P3D P4 was kind of purplish, but it was within what I felt was normal for a P4 without a certain tint bin specified.

Now I have other LED lights that have very white beams, which I expected them to have, because they were Q2 WC bins, etc. If I got a Q2 WC that had a tint outside of what a WC should be, then I may consider an exchage.

Also some of the dealers that hang on CPF offer us discounts, so when we buy something from them with a discount code and then we want an exchange because there is a slight green or purple cast to the beam they are taking a bigger hit.

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I understand completely and I think that "taking a hit" to achieve customer satisfaction by replacing defective or substandard products is part of the cost of doing business. Most of the lights they sell will stay sold, unless there is a definite problem. I can guarantee you that even with the small CPF discounts they offer, they still make a fair margin on these lights. And unlike a brick and morter store, they have lower overhead and operating costs.

Wade, one thing I need some education on is about "advertised bin tints" such as "WC." Does the "WC" stand for, White Color? And where do you find such advertising. I've not seen that in flashlight advertising, anywhere. And when I bought my Tiablo I did see the "WC" at the end of the emitter model number but didn't understand what that was all about. Maybe I've just missed it because I didn't know what to look for but I don't recall seeing any other advertising of tint for any other flashlights. And thanks, by the way for the explanation, after going back and reviewing the specs for the Tiablo A9, I now feel like I really scored!

Forgive me, I'm relatively new to CPF so I wasn't around when the "Luxeon Lottery" or whatever it was called was commonplace.

I'm not a tint expert, but from what I know WC is cool white, which many people feel looks the brightest. The tint should be white with cool color temp. The Tiablo Special Edition featured a Q5 WC. I got some Q5 WG's from dealextreme and they appear to be classified as soft white. Someone can probably post a link to a chart that shows the various tint bins, etc.

So basically if you buy a LED light that doesn't specify a certain tint bin you take a bit of a gamble. They are all fairly white, but may have a slight color cast, green, purple, blue, yellow, etc.

I'm just raising the question, should dealers have to exchange lights based on tint issues, if the tint issues are within the specs of the light?

WadeF said:

I'm not a tint expert, but from what I know WC is cool white, which many people feel looks the brightest. The tint should be white with cool color temp. The Tiablo Special Edition featured a Q5 WC. I got some Q5 WG's from dealextreme and they appear to be classified as soft white. Someone can probably post a link to a chart that shows the various tint bins, etc.

So basically if you buy a LED light that doesn't specify a certain tint bin you take a bit of a gamble. They are all fairly white, but may have a slight color cast, green, purple, blue, yellow, etc.

Click to expand...

Thanks very much for the info. I would agree with "many people" that WC or cool white not only looks the brightest but doesn't distort colors on the target. I don't want to "gamble" with my flashlight purchases so if a dealer won't easily exchange based on tint, I guess I just won't buy until I'm certain of getting a light that I like.

WadeF said:

I'm just raising the question, should dealers have to exchange lights based on tint issues, if the tint issues are within the specs of the light?

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I think it's obvious where I stand. All performance parameters of the light should be satisfactory or an exchange or refund is in order IMO.

My P1D Q5 is on the cool side, much more so than my P3D Rebel 100. Definitely bright as heck, and a good tint IMO.

ok, i have read you comments, I have a few things to say and ask.
First. there was a point about a year ago that I looked into buying fenix lights for our company for resale thru our dealers. There is not a whole lot of profit in the lights unless you sell lots and lots of them. So our company declined to sell the lights. So Fenix store giving us a discount,and it really does cut into 4sevens profit. I give all my buisness and the buisness of a lot of my friends to 4sevens, He does a great Job and stands behind his product.

I just wanted to find out what benefits a tint gives me. I understand from what I have found so far is that is gives a better depth of field and shows colors better. What do the experts think?

craigberesh said:

ok, i have read you comments, I have a few things to say and ask.
First. there was a point about a year ago that I looked into buying fenix lights for our company for resale thru our dealers. There is not a whole lot of profit in the lights unless you sell lots and lots of them. So our company declined to sell the lights. So Fenix store giving us a discount,and it really does cut into 4sevens profit. I give all my buisness and the buisness of a lot of my friends to 4sevens, He does a great Job and stands behind his product.

I just wanted to find out what benefits a tint gives me. I understand from what I have found so far is that is gives a better depth of field and shows colors better. What do the experts think?

Click to expand...

I personally don't give a darn what "the experts think." What do YOU think? That's what's important. You apparently have other flashlights for comparison, try them out, outdoors, at night on different targets and see what YOU think. Everyone has an opinion about what's best in a flashlight. Some like throw, some like flood, some like warm tint some like no tint (white).

And evidently, some even like puke green tint! :thumbsdow To each his own.

robo21 said:

I understand completely and I think that "taking a hit" to achieve customer satisfaction by replacing defective or substandard products is part of the cost of doing business. Most of the lights they sell will stay sold, unless there is a definite problem. I can guarantee you that even with the small CPF discounts they offer, they still make a fair margin on these lights. And unlike a brick and morter store, they have lower overhead and operating costs.

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If you would like an idea of our operating costs, here are some figures for ya...
$1800 per month for office/warehouse space. Payroll is over 7,000 per month
and increasing. (thats before I get paid). Sure, our overhead is not as high as
a brick and mortar store, but that doesn't mean we don't have overheads. These
overheads add up and raises our bottom line. And the bottom line also
needs to be raise to compensate for lulls that is typical of retail sales.

That 8% cpf code made seem small, but remember thats 8% of the sale
price. It's several times more of the actual profit. Our bread and butter
now comes from people who don't use CPF discount codes. But offering
CPF discounts helps us because you guys get the word out which by the way
we totally appreciate. :twothumbs

Also keep in mind that for some odd reason flashlight and flashlight related
products have the highest tariff than any other product. It's an
aburd 12.5%. I'm always writing huge checks to the us customs folks.
Not to mention 15% FICA tax... and on and on... sorry to rant.

I don't think it's wrong to say that we have lower overhead and operating
costs but we don't have THAT much lower costs.

My P1D CE Q5 arrived two days ago...couldn't be happier! Very bright and the tint shows no signs of green/yellow. I actually consider it one of my "tintless" lights!