Need help, Tiablo A9 or SF M3 or M4

This is only my second post on here so forgive me if an answer is already out there. I did a search but could not find what I was looking for. Soo....

I bought a Scorpion R500 with the weapon mount kit to go on my AR-15. We have a farm in East Texas with some hog problems so I have been working on that. Anyway, I mounted the R500 on the rifle yesterday and last night there were four pigs in one of our fields. The R500 lasted four rounds before the bulb shattered, and this is shooting a .223 which has very little recoil.

Before the bulb shattered (the company i bought it from is taking it back) I really liked both the lights output and throw/pattern. It was perfect for what I need. My father went out and bought a SF L7 today thinking that he wanted an LED and rechargable, but it is going back tomorrow as it just will not do what we need i.e. not enough throw and the pattern is too broad and not focused out enough. I have been looking at a few different model lights and whould like an experienced opinion as to what might fit my needs instead of just buying lights and trying them out.

I liked hoe the R500 threw, the light pattern, and the brightness. To replace it I have been looking at the SF M961 which is basically a M3 made to mount on a weapon, the SF M981 which is basically a M4 and maybe the Tiablo A9 although I would like to add a pressure switch or at least the tactical switch if I went in this direction. I have also thought about the M3 with the 300 lumen conversion that I have seen on here but I cannot remember the guys name who sells it.

I would also like to use a rechargable battery and have seen several refferences to batteries that I am unfamiliar with on here, I think they are Li-Ion and some are protected?

Based off of what I have already tried and liked/disliked (I liked the R500 until the bulb blew) which would you recommend, and what kind of rechargable battery would I need?

1. Tiablo A9
2. SF M961 (M3)
3. SF M981 (M4)
4. SF M961 with the 300 lumen LED coversion. (I think it was $135 for the conversion?

Also what batteries?

I appoligise for all of the questions, I did try to do a search but unless you put in just the right search criteria you just do not get the answer you need and a lot of the terminology is foreign to me. Thanks!

Oh by the way, I did run across the Lowes 2C LED thread and bought one on Thursday, very impressive little light.

I personally would pick the A9 and a 18650 rechargable battery (buy two or three) It will outthrow a M3 (I have had both) and possibly a M4...I had one, but its bulb blew 30 seconds after I took it out of the box (a fluke...rarely happens) and I took it right back to the store, so I did not illuminate anything with it at range.

If the incan guys here convince you to get a incan I would buy the M4 over the M3 turbohead because of more rechargeable battery choices. Still, as a night shooter myself, I would pick a Tiablo, DBS or MRV....All with the Q5 led of course.

For what you are doing, I think incandescent is the way to go, you need to generate a good "depth of field" effect which is best achieved by wide spectrum light output. This is where incandescent shines. If you liked the output of the R500, then you should try to get somewhere in the same ballpark as far as output goes. The R500 was probably somewhere around 350+ solid torch lumens. Keep in mind that Surefire de-rates a bit more so a M4 with the HOLA is probably actually brighter than the R500... However, you want rechargeable, which changes things a LOT.

So here's my line of suggestions:

A: LumensFactory is releasing a new bulb for the "500" series china lights. (I understand it will fit in the R500 and Ultrafire WF-500, but double check that). They make pretty good bulbs and more than likely this bulb will survive a decent number of recoils and hours of use. This may be the cheapest way to simply take what you already have and like, and upgrade to a more reliable solution.

B: If you want to go with a LED light, to avoid the possibility of premature bulb failures all together, you'll want something with a lot more punch than a single emitter light. I would SERIOUSLY suggest a Wolf-Eyes Storm or Thunder, which run 3 LEDs instead of just 1. Which will compete with the output of the R500 and similar lights.

C: if you want a rechargeable incandescent that is a complete replacement for the R500, I think you have 2 routes to consider: On the one hand, you could pick up a Wolf-Eyes M90 series, and slap a EO-13 lamp in there, this is "700 bulb lumens" so something like 300-400 Surefire lumens. Get the package that runs 3xLRB150A cells so the length isn't too unmanageable. The other option is to piece together a Surefire System using a Leefbody 2x18650 coupled to a Surefire turbohead and using either a MN16 or MN20. The MN20 would survive a lot better on this setup, but the MN16 would run brighter.

D: check out the new BigLeef system over at lighthound.com.... I'm not familiar with all the compatibility and haven't had a chance to look over the configuration options but there are bound to be some good options here using larger format li-ion type cells still within a reasonable tactical size with threads compatible with surefire stuff.

woodrow said:

I personally would pick the A9 and a 18650 rechargable battery (buy two or three) It will outthrow a M3 (I have had both) and possibly a M4...I had one, but its bulb blew 30 seconds after I took it out of the box (a fluke...rarely happens) and I took it right back to the store, so I did not illuminate anything with it at range.

If the incan guys here convince you to get a incan I would buy the M4 over the M3 turbohead because of more rechargeable battery choices. Still, as a night shooter myself, I would pick a Tiablo, DBS or MRV....All with the Q5 led of course.

Click to expand...

I'd second the Tiablo recommendation, but instead of the A9s, you want to go with the A8s due to it's better regulation with rechargeable 18650 batteries.

With the Tiablo's, if you prefer using rechargeable 18650's exclusively but the the ability to use CR123's as backup, then the A8s is your only good choice.
But if you prefer using CR123's excusively but still with the ability to use rechargeable 18650's, then the A9s is your only good choice.
The two lights are virtually identical except for the driver, which best uses the two battery types differently as noted above.

I think I've read elsewhere here at CPF that the Tiablo makes a good weapons light for a rifle.
For a shotgun, you might want a little larger beam, or you could use the diffuser with the Tiablo and go that way as well.

mdocod said:

B: If you want to go with a LED light, to avoid the possibility of premature bulb failures all together, you'll want something with a lot more punch than a single emitter light. I would SERIOUSLY suggest a Wolf-Eyes Storm or Thunder, which run 3 LEDs instead of just 1. Which will compete with the output of the R500 and similar lights.

Click to expand...

Will a light like the Storm or Thunder have the throw of an A8 or A9?

I appreciate the responces, it looks like I can get a good light for substancially less then the Surefire M981xm07 that runs in the $480 range.

I am kind of trying to narrow it down to the

1. Wolf Eyes M90-13V-168R Rechargeable Flashlight
2. Wolf Eyes Thunder A Q5 Li-ion Rechargeable
3. Tiablo A9S Q5 Bin Cree LED Flashlight

I the Wolf Eyes Thunder can use a pressure switch, I think the M90 can, and I do not know about the Tiablo.

The Tiablo has a great reputation for being a thrower, the Thunder is newer so I am not sure if worse, as good, or better. Anybody know?

The A9 and the Thunder are LED lights, would the M90 out perform them simply because it is an incan?

They are all priced much less then the SF (although I know SF is very good) so that is a plus, I can put more money towards the batteries and charger.

Thanks again for your help.

Also who should I buy from? I would like to support a vendor on here as long as their prices are in line or maybe a little less!

mdocod said:

B: If you want to go with a LED light, to avoid the possibility of premature bulb failures all together, you'll want something with a lot more punch than a single emitter light. I would SERIOUSLY suggest a Wolf-Eyes Storm or Thunder, which run 3 LEDs instead of just 1. Which will compete with the output of the R500 and similar lights.

Click to expand...

I highly respect mdocod's opinions in almost all cases. This time I have to strongly disagree though. I do not think the storm or any other multi cree light will give you enough throw for what you are needing. Also, when looking through a scope, I prefer the bright white of led to that of a incan. Just a personal preference though.

As a general rule, multi-emitter lights don't outthrow singles. My 7-cree spotlight (~1000lumens) won't outthrow my Pelican 7060 (~170lumens). It's all about reflector/optic style, not output, for throw.

Have you though about the Dereelight DBS? It will be easier to upgrade when the newer LEDs come and it has a bit more throw then the Tiablos.

:welcome:

Thanks for the info! :twothumbs

If the beam pattern of the R500 is what you are looking for, the A9/A8/DBS/MRV class of cree throwers may actually be toooo tight a beam for what you want. Keep in mind that the R500 you are used to is about double the output of a Q5@1A.

The A9 and the Thunder are LED lights, would the M90 out perform them simply because it is an incan?

Click to expand...

Depends on what you compare, if you get the M90 outfitted with the LumensFactory EO-13 it will perform as well or better than the thunder, and blow away the A9 in total output. It should be a hair brighter than the R500 that you are used to.

It is my personal opinion that lumen for lumen, in the outdoors, you are better off with incandescent light over LED because you are getting a smoother wider output spectrum. LEDs do in fact emit a wide spectrum of light, but they have a spike in output centered around one specific color temperature, the result IMO is a reduced depth perception. However, I think you can overcome the effects with raw lumens(more emitters).

Thanks guys, I am going to look into the M90-EO13 I think. I like the idea of an LED, but the light from the M500 was smoother and easier to use then that from my Lowes 2C CREE flishligh. The Lowes light throws very well but it is more difficult to make snap recognitions with the bluer light then it is with what I guess we would consider to me a "normal" light color. It is hard to explain, but I guess there is some extra interpolation when trying to decipher what you are seeing.

My only questions now are, will it put up to the rigors of being weapon mounted (i.e. recoil and shock) and can I get a pressure switch for the back end of it.

Thanks!