Surefire KX1…..should be called Bluefire

Just to clarify, I work in big control cabinets in the nuclear industry. Using my
Surefire E1L, it is very hard to verify the 75 plus different variations of wire
terminations that are colorized. The Surefire LED light is no help it defining true
color because of the way my eyes or my co-works eyes see the way the KX1
head throws out the light, you think its white light until……..the D-mini is shined
into a control cabinet it becomes immediately clear in the color rendition of the wire
terminations we are working on. White light is best, as for now Surefire LED's are
not. (Thank You Luma Power)

Am I the only one that thinks for the money Surefire LED's should have no bluish
tint? I'm finding more of a reason why xenon Surefires are popular...they really
throw a nice white light.

I am also wondering how many on here actually use their SF's as EDC instead of
staring at them on the shelf. The praise I have seen on here is only after it's admired
by shining it on a white wall in a dark room or being impressed by how it lights up
the backyard instead of actual field use.

My E1L is no longer EDC. Am I alone on this?

It depends. My EDC lights are either SureFire's (like the E1L with either KX1 or KL1) or they are SureFire derived (like my Lego'ed Aleph Body/KL1 head or my very recent Lego'ed VG body/KL1 head). I haven't abandoned them at all.

In my particular line of work (I'm an IT project manager), I sometimes have to get my hands dirty and do wire punchdowns. Hey - you gotta do what you gotta do.

The stock E1L (third gen KL1 or current gen KX1) is way too bright for wiring jobs - the light actually overloads things to where you get zero contrast. This is, of course, a situation common with a lot of LED's - the phosphors inherent and imbedded with the diode will filter out parts of the spectrum, and make things look very flat.

I do find that using the Aleph Body/KL1 combination with the two stage switch allows me to see the wire colors far better, only because the low stage switch gives you the flexibility to not blast the living crap out of the area with light. The two stage switch works well in this situation.

You could go to the Sandwich Shoppe and get yourself an Aleph E-Series two stage switch. That would likely solve your problem. It will fit the E-Series body - I've done it.

(Edited - wrong link)

http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?products_id=864

-Steve

Color rendition has never been leds' strong point.
In fact, it is often said here to do a little research on this before investing into a led light for that very purpose...

When you need to recognize red from orange, you're going to hate leds; when your batteries are at 40% and you've got a rocky path full of drops ahead of you, you'll love them.

Leds are tough, efficient and can be made into very flexible lights but for your needs, I'd recommend swapping to something else.

What you are speaking of sounds like the tint of the LED. You probably got a warm tinted LED in the D-Mini (The much more powerful hotspot and higher output also doesn't hurt) and a cooler LED in the Surefire.

Each LED comes out with a different tint. You might be able to swap the KX1 for another KX1 and see if you like the tint.

If the tint is bad enough to affect performance, send it back.

you best bet might be sending it back for a replacement, or going with incans and rechargeables in addition to the E1L.

HAGO,
Flash

You could also throw a little bit of "straw" filter over the lens to color correct the light. Yes there is a slight loss of power but the color of the beam can be made near perfect.
The idea is to determine the color temperature of the emitter you have then use a filter to correct to daylight or tungsten. Leds tend to be "cooler" the you have there certainly is.

There are free filter packs available from LEE Filters there are other companies as well. They sell filters used in the motion picture industry to both color correct and add interesting lighting effects.
Go to lee filters and request a free filter sample pack and you will receive a book of filters which you can cut flashlight color correction filters from. you can make just about any led perfectly usable using these filters.

Remember if the light is too blue use a straw or amber yellow filter. The filter PAC comes with all of these colors in many different strengths.
if the light is too warm or has too much RED in it then cool it off by using a blue filter in front of the emitter this will cool the light's color temperature.

There are web sites which talk about color correction.
Have a fun time doing some research.

The other cool thing about the filter pack is that it comes with LOTS of different color filters to play with.
Have fun.
In the UK go to:
http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/contact/

to request a filter book.
In the USA go to:
http://www.rosco.com/us/filters/swatchBookRequest.asp?type=roscolux

Both companies will send filter books out on request.
The Rosco site has lots of fantastic information about the topic.


Yaesumofo

KeyGrip said:

If the tint is bad enough to affect performance, send it back.

Click to expand...

Yep - send it back to Surefire for a replacement!

PinarelloOnly said:

Am I the only one that thinks for the money Surefire LED's should have no bluish
tint? I'm finding more of a reason why xenon Surefires are popular...they really
throw a nice white light.

Click to expand...

I've held onto my old HDS EDC U60GT (HDS Ultimate 60 Lumen Guaranteed Tint) due to the fact that it's a near perfect white. I will never upgrade the LED because it renders colors in such a true state. I evaluate fine art, antiques and gemstones and all three require true color rendition for correct authentication. In more than 20 LED lights later, I am yet to find one that is as true as the U60GT. Henry spent time sorting lights so that he could give customers what they wanted.

Ken

PinarelloOnly said:

Just to clarify, I work in big control cabinets in the nuclear industry. Using my
Surefire E1L, it is very hard to verify the 75 plus different variations of wire
terminations that are colorized. The Surefire LED light is no help it defining true
color because of the way my eyes or my co-works eyes see the way the KX1
head throws out the light, you think its white light until……..the D-mini is shined
into a control cabinet it becomes immediately clear in the color rendition of the wire
terminations we are working on. White light is best, as for now Surefire LED's are
not. (Thank You Luma Power)

Am I the only one that thinks for the money Surefire LED's should have no bluish
tint? I'm finding more of a reason why xenon Surefires are popular...they really
throw a nice white light.

I am also wondering how many on here actually use their SF's as EDC instead of
staring at them on the shelf. The praise I have seen on here is only after it's admired
by shining it on a white wall in a dark room or being impressed by how it lights up
the backyard instead of actual field use.

My E1L is no longer EDC. Am I alone on this?

Click to expand...

All "white" LED's have a blue tint. They are simply filtered blue LED's.

Don't fall for the 'white light' marketing sillyness.

KenAnderson said:

I've held onto my old HDS EDC U60GT (HDS Ultimate 60 Lumen Guaranteed Tint) due to the fact that it's a near perfect white. I will never upgrade the LED because it renders colors in such a true state. I evaluate fine art, antiques and gemstones and all three require true color rendition for correct authentication. In more than 20 LED lights later, I am yet to find one that is as true as the U60GT. Henry spent time sorting lights so that he could give customers what they wanted.

Ken

Click to expand...

I had one of those. While it was warmer than any other LED I've owned before, you could still compare it to a lower color temperature source and see that it was very blue. The best color rendition you will get from an artificial light source will be from a properly driven incandescent bulb.

If you have ever looked at a White LEDs (cree, SSC, lml etc) spectral discharge graph, you will notice that it has very little discharge in the Yellow through red region and has very strong discharge in the blue and green area. Therefore, if you are looking in a wiring cabinet, blue and Green wires will stand out, but the red, orange, and any other variants of red will look very dull. Perhaps you may need to use a warm white LED.

ampdude said:

I had one of those. While it was warmer than any other LED I've owned before, you could still compare it to a lower color temperature source and see that it was very blue. The best color rendition you will get from an artificial light source will be from a properly driven incandescent bulb.

Click to expand...

Actually, because an incandescent has a a higher ratio of yellow/red and an LED has higher ratio of blue than sunlight, I suspect the best color rendition would come from one of each blended. But for applications where you need to see blue, then a hot LED will not be good but a cool one may suffice. For looking at fine art, because there are so many earth tones, an incandecent is not very true. It causes the paintings to be too warm compared to the images that have been archived in the Catalogs.

Ken

If you look at the spectral graph of non / xenon / HID -FILAMENT ONLY- incans (ie, stock 4D Rayovac krypton), they have a far disproportionately larger area in the red end, and very little green and up, especially after running for a few minutes. Sure, LED's still have a long way to go before they are as good as higher end incans on certain aspects, but at their current state, I'm still VERY pleased. I think I read somewhere on the internet about some sort of PHOSPHORLESS white LED, and could've sworn it remarked about a full spectrum output.. I'll try to find the link again, and post here.

I'm in th same boat, and am looking for a light I an tell wire colors with as I also work on computers.

Is there a GOOD LED light that works for this, or is incandescents the only way to go right now?

Gallium Nitride mixed with Zinc Oxide will help produce a phosphorless white.

IIRC, the GaN will produce a blue, which will excite the Zinc Oxide to produce the other colors.

L.E.D. said:

If you look at the spectral graph of non / xenon / HID -FILAMENT ONLY- incans (ie, stock 4D Rayovac krypton), they have a far disproportionately larger area in the red end, and very little green and up, especially after running for a few minutes. Sure, LED's still have a long way to go before they are as good as higher end incans on certain aspects, but at their current state, I'm still VERY pleased. I think I read somewhere on the internet about some sort of PHOSPHORLESS white LED, and could've sworn it remarked about a full spectrum output.. I'll try to find the link again, and post here.

Click to expand...

L.E.D. said:

If you look at the spectral graph of non / xenon / HID -FILAMENT ONLY- incans (ie, stock 4D Rayovac krypton), they have a far disproportionately larger area in the red end, and very little green and up, especially after running for a few minutes. Sure, LED's still have a long way to go before they are as good as higher end incans on certain aspects, but at their current state, I'm still VERY pleased. I think I read somewhere on the internet about some sort of PHOSPHORLESS white LED, and could've sworn it remarked about a full spectrum output.. I'll try to find the link again, and post here.

Click to expand...

Is it this, http://ctf-fmfe.bu.edu/BU0327.pdf? (
Phosphorless White Light Emitting Diodes) I googled it.

Just ordered a sample pack, thanks alot for the link! I can't wait to try these out.

yaesumofo said:

Go to lee filters and request a free filter sample pack and you will receive a book of filters which you can cut flashlight color correction filters from. you can make just about any led perfectly usable using these filters.
There are web sites which talk about color correction.
Have a fun time doing some research.

The other cool thing about the filter pack is that it comes with LOTS of different color filters to play with.
Have fun.

to request a filter book.
In the USA go to:
http://www.rosco.com/us/filters/swatchBookRequest.asp?type=roscolux

Both companies will send filter books out on request.
The Rosco site has lots of fantastic information about the topic.


Yaesumofo

Click to expand...

KenAnderson said:

Actually, because an incandescent has a a higher ratio of yellow/red and an LED has higher ratio of blue than sunlight, I suspect the best color rendition would come from one of each blended. But for applications where you need to see blue, then a hot LED will not be good but a cool one may suffice. For looking at fine art, because there are so many earth tones, an incandecent is not very true. It causes the paintings to be too warm compared to the images that have been archived in the Catalogs.

Ken

Click to expand...

Probably, but I doubt the INCAN will benefit as much from the addition of the LED as the led would benefit from the addition of incan light source. Properly driven incan bulbs have a much higher CRI than led's. There are new kinds of led's now with higher CRI's, but I think they have yet to be proven.

Glad to hear it.
Don't forget to make a post about your results.
You will find that the filter book will give you so many options. you may want to make a little filter holder so you can experiment.

Some great filters are made by taking some filter material (likt the stuff you are going to get and placing a peice between 2 glass rounds and putting a band around the two lenses to hold them together.
this is placed infront of the light source. this makes the filter nice and smooth and improves the output.
Good luck
Yaesumofo

Sgt. LED said:

Just ordered a sample pack, thanks alot for the link! I can't wait to try these out.

Click to expand...