"Accidental Discharges" With Surefires?

BruiseLee

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\"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

I was comparing my G2 Surefire with my Streamlight 4AA Propolymer and Stinger XT. I got to thinking I like the way the Streamlights have their tail-cap switches recessed in the the body of the flashlight. The button switch for the SL 4AA, for example, is situated in a U-shaped valley. The sides of the valley are high enough so that even if you slammed the light down on a hard, flat surface, there is no way the light will trigger. At the same time, access to the switch is not significantly impaired.

On my Surefire, the only thing that is really preventing the light from going off while riding in my pocket is the high amount of "trigger pressure" needed to depress the switch. The button protrudes about 1/8" above the back of the tailcap. After thinking about this some, it's kind of like having a pistol with no trigger guard, only a very heavy trigger to keep it from going off. Sure, you can actuate the device very quickly, but is this a worthwhile design compromise for the average user?

I know that some of you are going to say, "Ya, but with most Surefires all you have to do is rotate the tailcap to the off position. Problem solved."

To that, I say I'd like to see someone draw the Surefire from their pocket, use two hands to rotate the tailcap in the proper direction, then switch their grip on the Surefire to acquire, aim, and then illuminate the bad guy who has charged them from 21 feet. Having to use two hands is unacceptible IMHO. You need that second hand free to draw your pepper spray, handgun, whatever. Not to mention that fractions of a second can make all the difference in a high intensity situation.

Which brings me back to my original question: have any of you ever had "accidental discharges" with you Surefires, or any other of your other lights? I seem to remember reading about one forum member who fell asleep, rolled over on his Surefire, and woke up when his light heated up. I think I remember another posting where another member's Surefire stayed on accidentally, melting his Lexan lens. Since the Streamlight Scorpion is deployed in the same way as most Surefires, but posesses a recessed tail-cap switch, has anyone ever experienced an unwanted activation with their Scorpion?

To me this is a major issue. Your tactical light is useless if the batteries have discharged, or your lamp assembly has blown, and you don't even know it!

Bruise
 

tkl

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

you're trying to get tactical use out of a $30 light intended for general use. i strongly suggest you upgrade to a light intended for tactical encounters(Z2/3,G2Z,M2/3) with a lockout tail cap and appropriate tactical holster(kydex).

i wold pass on the surefire holsters, they tear up the lights and i've seen mixed reviews. check out comp-tac
 

PieThatCorner

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

tkl hit it right on the nose... the design of the SureFire rear tail switch was modified to allow for the ease of use during activation with the Rogers/SureFire combatgrip during low-light force on force encounters. Correctly carried is the assumption that the bezel is face down and the body riding (usually, but not always) vertically for the correct initial grip.

I have never had an AD with my Scorpions, and have had maybe three AD's with my SureFire 6P when I carried them "incorrectly" bezel up and in a leather holster during inappropriate times. It's a learning lesson with a short learning curve when your life depends on it. I've since gone bezel down in an appropriate holster.

And leaving on tkl's note: I've just picked up a Comp-Tac holster for my G2Z. Waiting for the SideArmor for a side by side comparison.

-Jim
 

treek13

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

I just want to say that I too have had my Scorpion turn on by accident. It is real easy to turn on most Scorp's. The switch isn't really recessed and it has a hair trigger.

I have never had a Surefire AD but then again I usually carry it locked out.

Pat
 

Monsters_Inc

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Re:

Resting a Scorp on a table with its tail end doesn't result in activation on my unit, but applying a slight amount of downward pressure does. The G2 (pretty much the only SF without LOTC) does have the switch protusion as pointed out, so pocket carry may result in accidental activation. Might wanna try investing in a V70 holster.

On the other hand, proficiency/practice with the G2 switch will allow one handed twisting for constant on. But that's very restrictive as it has to be stored in a certain direction, drawn a certain way and thus activated. If just one aspect is out of place, and it's a tactical situation, you may end up worse off than having no light due to the fumble.
 

BruiseLee

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

[ QUOTE ]
tkl said:
you're trying to get tactical use out of a $30 light intended for general use. i strongly suggest you upgrade to a light intended for tactical encounters(Z2/3,G2Z,M2/3) with a lockout tail cap and appropriate tactical holster(kydex).


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the holster steer! Those look like some pretty cool holsters!

I think tkl's advice is sound. But, let's say I did upgrade to an M2 or a G2Z. If I used the lockout feature, the light would still be slow on the draw. And, if I didn't use it, I've still got the same problem of the light going off when I don't want it to.

Also, if the G2 shares the same batteries, reflector, bulb, and manufacturer as the M2 and G2Z, is the bad guy who get illuminated really going to notice the difference?

Since I work in Beverly Hills, I don't want to look like Batman with his utility belt loaded down with a cell phone, pepper mace, PDA, pager, Spyderco folder, SOG multitool, flashlight, MP3 player, you get the idea. I have to wear a suit at work, I'm not contractor or workman who can get away with toting all that stuff around Los Angeles.

I'm bummed to hear the SL Scorpion seems to be rather prone to AD's. The set-up on the new Pelican M6 seems to be a clone of Surefire's setup. Oh well.

Bruise
 

Ginseng

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Re:

For what it's worth, when I first received my 9P, it discharged once draining a set of 123's. I worked the tailcap a dozen or so times and it has been trouble-free since.

W
 

Size15's

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Re:

When I clip a SureFire inside my trouser pocket, I don't usually like to have it Locked Out. BUT, when I had the E2e, it came on once during a meeting whilst I was sitting down. I almost burnt a hole in my suit jacket before I noticed it was getting hot! So I had to LockOut my E2e & E2e+KL1

Things are different now though since SureFire moved to the two-stage TailCap. The A2 & L1 pressure switches are never Locked Out when I EDC them. I've not had an "AD" - certainly not of the main beam. The A2's LEDs may come on and I won't notice because they are low output and the A2 doesn't heat up to the same degree as when the main beam is on. What does that matter? With 1200 minutes of runtime, the LEDs can be Constant-On for hours at a time and not worry me.

So that's the Smaller SureFires... The Larger SureFires I carry differently - either in a pouch (Locked Out) or in my coat/jacket pocket. Usually bezel down for stability and speed to draw. The Z49/49/SW02 Clickies have their rubber shrouds to help prevent them coming on when you don't want them to. In certain coats, I carry the M4 Bezel up in my inside pocket or walking jacket map pocket (deep enough)

There is another types of AD for carry - the 10X can "blink" on and off then you run and it shakes up and down - the same with the 8NX. Because of their design, certain position of the Bezel screwed onto the body can make solve this though.

I mostly use LOTC feature when a pile of SureFires are kicking about in the bottom of my rucksack etc.

Al
 

madecov

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Re:

While the M2 & G2Z are designed as combat lights, the G2 is designed to be a more standard flashlight. I can not carry bezel down because I use a filter all the time. The G2 lends itself more to the Harries ( Ithink it's spelled right) techniqe. If the G2/G2Z are carried bezel down then the accidental activation of the light is far less likely
 

Quickbeam

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Re:

"Things are different now though since SureFire moved to the two-stage TailCap."

Just a friendly clarification. I wouldn't say Surefire "moved" to a 2 stage tailcap. They did incorporate a 2 stage tailcap into some of their new designes. You moved to the 2 stage lights for EDC. I realize WE all understand this, but we don't want to give the impression to a newbie that all SF are now 2 stage. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I carry my Scorpion in a belt sheath most of the time, so no accidental activations.... I have an E2 (older model) and have never had accidental activations. I just twist the tailcap out as far as it will go without falling off.
 

tkl

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

[ QUOTE ]
BruiseLee said:
[But, let's say I did upgrade to an M2 or a G2Z. If I used the lockout feature, the light would still be slow on the draw. And, if I didn't use it, I've still got the same problem of the light going off when I don't want it to.

Also, if the G2 shares the same batteries, reflector, bulb, and manufacturer as the M2 and G2Z, is the bad guy who get illuminated really going to notice the difference?



[/ QUOTE ]

the difference will be, you have it in a kydex holster(bezel down, tail cap unlocked), all you have to do is draw. with the combat grip and kydex holster it's extremely fast. in a holster you don't need to lockout the tailcap.
 

StarPhox

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

[ QUOTE ]
BruiseLee said:
posting where another member's Surefire stayed on accidentally, melting his Lexan lens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does the manufacturer claim it's Lexan? I'm really surprised the light could generate that much head. I do quite a bit of work with Lexan and it takes a significant amount of heat to distort it.

I've put a heat gun (about 1000 deg F) on it for several minutes and it is barely affected. Usually a propane torch (3200F or so) will get it going rather quickly.

I suppose this is a bit off the subject, I'm just amazed (if it really is Lexan) that it melted...I'm sure the light doesn't hit 1500 F + !
 

BruiseLee

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

[ QUOTE ]
StarPhox said:
Does the manufacturer claim it's Lexan? I'm really surprised the light could generate that much head. I do quite a bit of work with Lexan and it takes a significant amount of heat to distort it.

I've put a heat gun (about 1000 deg F) on it for several minutes and it is barely affected. Usually a propane torch (3200F or so) will get it going rather quickly.

I suppose this is a bit off the subject, I'm just amazed (if it really is Lexan) that it melted...I'm sure the light doesn't hit 1500 F + !

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm not sure what Streamlight uses for the Scorpion lens, but if you look at the beginning of this thread, you will see one forum member melted his lens to the point of bubbling!

I guess when your light gets that hot you could use it tactically as a branding iron!

Bruise
 

ygbsm

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Re:

What I'd like is a sort of grip safety (perhaps some sort of small ribbon pressure switch) on the side of the flashlight body with activation of both the tailcap switch and the grip safety required for the light to go on. No need to fumble with the lockout tailcap and little worry about ADs.
 

StarPhox

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

[ QUOTE ]
BruiseLee said:
Well, I'm not sure what Streamlight uses for the Scorpion lens, but if you look at the beginning of this thread, you will see one forum member melted his lens to the point of bubbling!


[/ QUOTE ]

I did see that, I'm just saying I don't think it was Lexan...sorry for nitpicking. I've just considered cutting Lexan to fit a flashlight so you would have a nearly unbreakable (but transparent) barrier to protect your bulb/optics/whatnot.

Phil
 

Quickbeam

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

[ QUOTE ]
BruiseLee said:
[ QUOTE ]
StarPhox said:
Does the manufacturer claim it's Lexan? I'm really surprised the light could generate that much head. I do quite a bit of work with Lexan and it takes a significant amount of heat to distort it.

I've put a heat gun (about 1000 deg F) on it for several minutes and it is barely affected. Usually a propane torch (3200F or so) will get it going rather quickly.

I suppose this is a bit off the subject, I'm just amazed (if it really is Lexan) that it melted...I'm sure the light doesn't hit 1500 F + !

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm not sure what Streamlight uses for the Scorpion lens, but if you look at the beginning of this thread, you will see one forum member melted his lens to the point of bubbling!

I guess when your light gets that hot you could use it tactically as a branding iron!

Bruise

[/ QUOTE ]

I think StarPhox was asking about the Surefire lens, not the Streamlight lens. See his post, 4 up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Streamlight uses a "polycarbonate" lens and does not name it as "Lexan".

Surefire does state that the lens is Lexan on their website.
 

jtivat

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Re:

Yes Surefire uses Lexan and I have had it melt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Dennis

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

BruiseLee,

I sure hope that if a bad guy is charging you from 21 feet you are trying to do something else besides draw a flashlight...

That said, any compact flashlight carried around for serious self-defense use should be immediately and correctly accessible, usually in a belt holster. I do not keep the light locked out, for obvious reasons. I use a kydex carrier that holds the light bezel up and is sculpted to not allow the tailcap to be depressed. For some reason I find it easier to draw to Harries from bezel up, probably because I carry my E2e on my left hip behind my mag pouches.

To answer your main question, I have had lights, knives, and OC turn on, open, or go off while in pockets with varying negative results. Be sure of how your equipment works, practice often, and don't compromise when it comes to your own safety.
 

Floating Spots

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Re: \"Accidental Discharges\" With Surefires?

I very specifically marked my 6Z (with its upgraded lock-out cap) a quarter turn back from activation. As it is removed, I can rotate the tailcap about a half turn comfortably (with one hand), before it even meets my handgun. Before I put it back, I just set it at the mark and its ready.

I have also melted a lens in my 6Z. It was pretty well done....
 
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