SF KL4 No Longer listed..getting update to KL4A?

Just noticed that the Surefire KL4 is no longer listed under Accessories. Did I miss another thread or is this a new development?
I am suspecting that the KL4 is getting an update; KL4 --> KL4A?
Perhaps being changed to a high output Cree? (there are experts out there that know way more than I do regarding this LED; please chime in here)
The L4 is still listed, no apparent change to specs, but if a new KL4A is released, I am sure they would rightfully update the L4.
I do not own a L4 or KL4 - yet, knowing it was highly likely to be updated this year.

What can we expect for regulated runtime at full output? Knowing that the P60L is 2.75 hours at ~80L, (in metal bezel) with gradual drop threreafter, can we safely suspect 2 hours regulated at 100L? or better?

Wifeaflauging the mad $$ already!

Techmedic said:

Just noticed that the Surefire KL4 is no longer listed under Accessories. Did I miss another thread or is this a new development?

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You missed something.

I am suspecting that the KL4 is getting an update; KL4 --> KL4A?

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On what do you base your suspicions?
The 'closest alternative' to the KL4 will likely be the so-called KX2C bezel said to be part of the as yet unreleased M600C ScoutLight.

I do not own a L4 or KL4 - yet, knowing it was highly likely to be updated this year.

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When you consider the direction SureFire is going with the E-Series lights I would use words such as 'the chances of the L4 (KL4) being updated [any] year are extremely remote - I see nothing to suggest it will ever happen.'

Al

Al, I assumed since the E2D LED Defender has been released at 120 lumens, an improved L4 would be just around the corner. Am I wrong as usual?

The KX2C bezel is supposed to be a non-crenelated single-level version of the E2DL bezel with the same output.
(or to put it another way; a single-level 120 lumen version of the KX2)

Whether SureFire will put this bezel on a flashlight body is unclear since it is primarily intended for the M600C ScoutLight.

Al

Awwwww, Al you spoiled a good dream for many CPFers

The nomenclature seems to be getting more complicated as time goes on and products diversify.

Al, thanks. That makes sense. It sounds kind of like the KL9. As soon as that is released I want one for my M3. I would also buy a KX2C for my E2e. Surely SF will release both these heads someday as whole flashlights. Is there a mention of the KX2C in the 2008 weapons catalog?

ugrey said:

Surely SF will release both these heads someday as whole flashlights.

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Whilst I would expect this too, given that SureFire's current range of flashlights are dual output bezels, it may seem to them to be a 'step back' to release one that doesn't have this dual output capability.

Now I don't personally like the dual output capability and it's not going down wonderfully with those who consider that a "tactical" light should be a KISS single level output.
Whether SureFire are starting to get this feedback and feeling from their users is unknown.
From this perspective throwing a load of single output E2DL's out there and seeing how many come back to them for switching to dual output could be a means of measuring opinion?

ugrey said:

Is there a mention of the KX2C in the 2008 weapons catalog?

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Nope.
The M600C "New ScoutLight" comes with SureFire.com
The "KX2C" bezel name comes from an unofficial source but it seems to make sense to me.

The question I find myself asking is that if SureFire don't appear to be intending to replace the L4 (KL4) with an updated version akin to the updated L5 (KL5A) then there does appear to be a hole in the product range that needs a non-crenelated E-Series flashlight in it. What are they going to do and how soon are they going to do it?

Al

Size15's said:

Now I don't personally like the dual output capability and it's not going down wonderfully with those who consider that a "tactical" light should be a KISS single level output.

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Look at this from a business perspective. The XRE (and other current generation emitters) has put Surefire into a bit of a bind. If SF upgrades their lower-end lights to use the XRE at full power, their lower end lights will be bright enough to be tactically useful and therefore, bright enough to cannibalize sales of SF's more expensive products. If SF does not offer brighter low end lights based on new generation emitters, they risk losing the E series chunk of the market to their competitors as consumers seek brighter lights.

Degrading the E series with awkward dual output 'features' is a way for SF to break the bind. Tactical users want KISS, so adding multi-level renders the E series useless to the tactical market and therefore prevents cannibalization of more expensive lights. Non-tactical users won't be bothered (much) by the awkwardness of a multi-level light and will happily accept the increased light output, therefore negating any customer flight to brighter offerings from SF's competitors.

A 120lm single level LED flashlight or head is unlikely to appear unless it's priced high enough not to threaten sales of lights like the M2 and U series.

Segmenting up your customer base by manipulating your products is a very easy way to make money.

enLIGHTenment said:

A 120lm single level LED flashlight or head is unlikely to appear unless it's priced high enough not to threaten sales of lights like the M2 and U series.

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I'm willing to bet that the M600C's bezel will not be sold by itself for quite some time. Demand for the M600C will be such that there are insufficient bezels available for individual purchase.

It is clear that SureFire's large and diverse range is going through an evolution as the market shifts from incandescent to LED.
Further there is a shift from single-function lights to multi-function lights.

There will be casualties and it'll take time for things to settle out as SureFire transforms its range.

The exciting thing for me is that there is plenty of scope for new products and I'm not talking about the dual-output clickie UI's, backups or defenders - to me these are like sideshows giving texture to the range of current generation products that are replacing the range of incandescent products.

I'm excited that many of SureFire's concepts are now mature enough to be taken forward and combined at the next level. The UA2 and UB2 are hopefully just the start for this latest drive towards 3V.

3V is PK's vision for the 'ultimate' flashlight - variable output, variable beam shape and variable beam colour.
There are many ways to approach and achieve 3V. For example variable does not have to mean 'continuously variable'. There are times when there can be too much choice to the extent that it detracts from the utility of flashlight.

It's about knowing the mission - knowing what success looks like.
It's about knowing ergonomics - knowing how people interact with their tools and tasks.
It's about knowing how to develop concepts and engineer solutions that fit both the task and the person to deliver the desired outcome.

When you map out SureFire's products using 3V you can begin to see where they may be heading next. Perhaps people would like to do just that?

Al

All of this discussion is good but in the end I think SF should put out an updated, if for run time only, flood light. I own an L4 and love it (it was my first SF) but I dont mind seeing it put to rest. What we really need is an updated L2, keep its 2 stage twisty switch, keep it's reflector, increase its run time, maybe increase it's output and make it shorter. I want that now, it should not hurt sales of the upcoming U's.