Lumen ratings in terms of Surefire vs. Fenix? how inflated are Fenix's?

I dont know anything about Fenix but i know about surefire, i dont own anything else in that quality range besides my surefires and was wondering if fenix is worth a try...im sure i will get ALOT of mixed feedback with this...any opinions are appreciated!!! THANK YOU!

Simple answer is look up.....
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/211402

The general consensus seems to be (in general) that SF is conservative-to-accurate with its ratings (out the front lumens, in other words) and Fenix is a little on the high side with its ratings (probably closer to emitter lumens). However, Fenix is more accurate than some Chinese manufacturers with its lumen-ratings and Surefire is horribly misleading with its battery life ratings

Scotty007 said:

I dont know anything about Fenix but i know about surefire, i dont own anything else in that quality range besides my surefires and was wondering if fenix is worth a try...im sure i will get ALOT of mixed feedback with this...any opinions are appreciated!!! THANK YOU!

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You have to hope someone has tested the light you want.

The E2DL is rated at 120 but when it was tested on CPF it ended up being 180-200 (general idea on CPF).

The 6PL is rated at 80 and was tested at 82.

My PD30 is rated at 225 and I am almost 100 percent sure it's close to accurate based on handling similar lumen lights.

It really comes down to LEDs and eyes. A light with twice as many lumens isn't going to appear twice as bright.

Only thing you can do is find a light you want, and look for testing, beamshots, and reviews. Then compare.

Get it into your head that everyone lies except CPF. Once you have done that, wait for a CPF certified-tester (joke) and see how the light compares to something you know.

The only real data we have is in the thread linked by Marduke. Threads that compare based on lux are NOT accurate, as that measures intensity at one point, not total output. Judging based on lux leads to misconceptions like that the E2DL is 180 lumens. My personal opinion is to expect exact numbers from Surefire and a few others, 100-120% from Fenix and most high end companies, and anything from budget brands.

Well, my Surefire E2DL has the same output by ceiling bounce as my Malkoff M60 in a 6P host. So I'd say that 180 lumens is an understatement.

asdalton said:

Well, my Surefire E2DL has the same output by ceiling bounce as my Malkoff M60 in a 6P host. So I'd say that 180 lumens is an understatement.

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Are you measuring that with your eyes, or a lux meter? Either way they are two different types of beams. The M60 has a decent hot spot and a lot of spill. The E2DL has most of it's lumens in the intense hot spot, with dimmer spill. Lights like the E2DL that are mostly throw can reflect more light down from that hot spot to the areas directly under the hot spot. You could maybe try again, but in a large room and see if the M60 lights up the room's floor, farthest from the middle of the beam (corners of the room), better than the E2DL.

I think this is because the E2DL throws better, so the light is less likely to bounce from ceiling to all directions. A flashlight with brighter hotspot will light up a room better when pointing up because the light can be reflected with more intensity, human eyes or camera lenses adapts to the overall lighting so dimmer lights won't be seen. But this is just my theory and I don't have enough flashlights to prove it.

SF use better optics so the beam it produces is narrower, but more intense than a flashlight of the same lumens specifications. When we look at how bright it is, we usually look at the hotspot and not the overall beam.

Like marduke said the only way to know the real lumens is to measure the whole lighting pattern, both hotspot and flood.

The ceiling bounce test means looking at the entire room, not the spot on the ceiling. I've done this test with adjustable-focus flashlights, and the result is not dependent on the beam pattern.

asdalton said:

The ceiling bounce test means looking at the entire room, not the spot on the ceiling. I've done this test with adjustable-focus flashlights, and the result is not dependent on the beam pattern.

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That's how I do it. I point both lights at the same point on the ceiling, and turn each on alternately, while looking at something near the floor or close to it. I also look at things across the room. I look for things that are detailed like words on a newspaper or something. Whichever light makes it easier to read or see the detail, I consider to have more output. When I performed this test with my E2DL and 6P with Malkoff M60, the E2DL was slightly brighter.

Search said:

The E2DL is rated at 120 but when it was tested on CPF it ended up being 180-200 (general idea on CPF).

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This was not done in an integration sphere, this is some one's home made light "box" and these results are definitely in dispute. I have a friend who just got an E2DL and he wants me to test it in the Integration Sphere, which is out for calibration so we will have real results soon. Maybe in 2 weeks or less.

MrGman said:

This was not done in an integration sphere, this is some one's home made light "box" and these results are definitely in dispute. I have a friend who just got an E2DL and he wants me to test it in the Integration Sphere, which is out for calibration so we will have real results soon. Maybe in 2 weeks or less.

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Was not aware the results were tainted. I'll be looking forward to your findings.

My thoughts were that people assumed it was brighter because SF did a good job at making a tight beam with little spill. I didn't realize it was a light box.

Search said:

Was not aware the results were tainted. I'll be looking forward to your findings.

My thoughts were that people assumed it was brighter because SF did a good job at making a tight beam with little spill. I didn't realize it was a light box.

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Surefire did a good job and it has a tight beam, that doesn't make the total lumens output higher than what Surefire themselves rated it at which is 120 lumens. It may be on the high side, but the test results from people on CPF saying its over 180 has not been done in a real integration sphere. Surefire didn't use a light box, they have real integration spheres, which is half of the reason I dispute the 180 lumens claims.

Surefire increased the lumens on the E2DL around the beginning of 2009, but did not change the packaging until much later. So some people received 200 lumen flashlights while only expecting to get 120 lumens. So they were pleasantly suprised to see how bright there lights were. So I'm wondering which E2DL lights were tested. Did the 120 lumen light actually put out 203 in the test, or was that one of the new 200 lumen lights. I'm trying to decide between a E2DL and a Olight M20 Warrior. The M20 claims 250 lumens and will throw up to 250 meters. How would this compare to the new E2DL rated at 200 lumens considering it uses the TIR which produces a tight beam with a lot of throw, which I like?

Thanks

Terry

Before you compare these two brands, please know this:

Fenix flashlights will keep the same output for the stated runtime, surefires will not. Most of them.

Efficiency :thumbsup:

richardcpf said:

Before you compare these two brands, please know this:

Fenix flashlights will keep the same output for the stated runtime, surefires will not. Most of them.

Efficiency :thumbsup:

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Isn't that way too general a statement? The E2DL I tested held its output very well. All LEDs have an initial drop in output as the phosphor warms up, has nothing to do with driver efficiency. How do you justify such a statement?

Fenix waaaay overrates the Lumen- its more like they calculate them based on LED & power source.

Cato said:

Fenix waaaay overrates the Lumen- its more like they calculate them based on LED & power source.

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That depends on the model...

The tac series seems to be all OTF.

The only SF LED light I have to compair with is an old L5 I believe is rated at 100 L. I have an early model Fenix TK10 that's noticably brighter and has a shorter run time. My Olight M20 premium is a bit brighter than my TK10. The SF only has one speed but is just as useful as the other two with a bit longer run time and less heat. The big advantage of the Olight is it will hold a 18650.
Billy

richardcpf said:

Fenix flashlights will keep the same output for the stated runtime, surefires will not.

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Here we go.

I'm curious on a more detailed description, but the ensuing war will ruin all hopes of a civilized thread.