Super Tiny Lights: Roundup MetaThread

applevision · Apr 22, 2009

I am obsessed with the littlest of the little!

Keychain lights, neck lights, necklace lights, neckchain lights--call them what you will--but I like the tiniest of the tiny!

This thread is a roundup of sorts and was inspired by a neat PM from Flashlight Aficionado. He recommended adding to my chart the max lumens and then calculating the lumens/volume to give some sort of a sense of how much power per unit of package... Of course this could also be done with weight or length or any other combination, but I felt that volume gave a reasonably good sense of what the light was like in your pocket or on your person.

I want to point out some fantastic discussions that have occurred in the following threads:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228159
Tiniest of tinies: This thread has some great pics and even better discussion!

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209606
The Phial of Galadriel: This is one of my favorite threads in the history of CPF! Totally geeky but fun, folks go into some really interesting light sources including tritium-based lights and Glo-Toobs.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/216490
24/7/365 Waterproof Neck Carry Light: This is it. 236 posts and over 8 pages of pure CPF wisdom on this topic! I think we covered it all here! Photos, ideas, rebuttals, and a building discovery looking for the tiniest light. It culminated with a chart that I put together:

Code:

[FONT=courier new]              LENGTH:       DIAMETER:          VOLUME:  [/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]PFanatic       19mm           11mm             1200mm^3[/B]
Firefli        38mm            7mm             1462mm^3
KD             42mm           10mm             3299mm^3
LaPetit        23.25mm        14.25mm          3681mm^3
Eddie          50mm           10mm             3926mm^3[/FONT][FONT=courier new]
Drake          33mm           13mm             4380mm^3[/FONT][FONT=courier new]
AUNOC          67mm           9.5mm            4751mm^3
Nano           37mm           13mm             4910mm^3
Wee            34mm           15mm             6007mm^3
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]Draco          47mm           13mm             6238mm^3[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new]Mako           68mm           13mm             9024mm^3
LD01           73.5mm         14mm           11,314mm^3
Aeon           53.3mm         17.7mm         13,108mm^3
EZAA           83.0mm         16.6mm         17,963mm^3
MiNi123        58.4mm         20.3mm         18,715mm^3[/FONT]

And it is truly my favorite thread in CPF!

Of course, there are many other great keychain light threads, but these are my favorites.

Now I'd like to show you how I've updated that chart per Flashlight Aficionado's suggestion. Voila!

As you can see, I've added the EagleTac M2 for shits and giggles. I've also highlighted the best (in green) and worst (in red) for each category to highlight the extremes. Of course this is not all-inclusive, but if you have more lights for me to add (and corrections) please let me know.

Also, I want to add in the numbers for the Quark MiNi 123, my favorite light du jour...
So the Lumens/volume would be: 0.010! This puts it right up near the Drake/Draco/Wee group. Very impressive indeed!
So here are the best of the best:

Code:

[FONT=courier new]
           LENGTH:   DIAMETER:   VOLUME:      MAX:  LUM/VOL:      $:
LaPetit    23.25mm    14.25mm     3681mm^3     <5*     .0013     $95.00 
Nano       37mm       13mm        4910mm^3     10      .0020     $8.00
Fauxton    41x23mm    7mm         6601mm^3*    15*     .0022     $FREE*
Firefli    38mm       7mm         1462mm^3     <5*     .0034     $N/A
Aeon       53.3mm     17.7mm      13,108mm^3   114     .0086     $125.00
[COLOR="Blue"]MiNi123    58.4mm     20.3mm      18,715mm^3   189     .0100     $39.00[/COLOR] 
[COLOR="Red"]MiNiCR2    50.8mm     19.0mm      14,403mm^3   180     .012      $39.00[/COLOR] 
Wee        34mm       15mm        6007mm^3     100     .0166     $ 51.00
Drake      33mm       13mm        4380mm^3     100     .0228     $145.00
Draco      47mm       13mm        6238mm^3     160     .0256     $155.00[/FONT]

Now I'd like to highlight some photos from prior threads that I think are amazing! (Note: the first photo is from HKJ's post and I've noted that below. HKJ--if you'd like me not to use this image here, please just let me know. Since I'm clearly attributing it to you and including the original link for context, I thought it would be okay since we are in CPF.)

Enjoy!

HKJ's image from his post here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2907441&postcount=13
From L to R: An Eneloop AA, the La Petit Killer, Streamlight Nano, Lummi Wee, Drake, Draco, Lummi Raw, La Petit Killer AAA, McGizmo Sapphire, and Fenix LD01-SS. What a gorgeous collection of lights, HKJ!!!

From L to R: The FireFli (Whoo hoo!), the Lummi Wee, the Muyshondt Aeon, and a AA battery.

Putting things in perspective!

A closeup of the FireFli on my neck chain next to my St. Benedict medal. This is my favorite of the tiny lights!

Finally, I'd like to direct folks over to here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/216490
If they are interested in a FireFli-like LED light. I am happy to report that more than one designer has expressed interest in something like this and I am hoping beyond hopes we get some more contenders for this chart!

All the best!

Phos4 · Apr 23, 2009

this is only my second post, but i'm a long-time lurker around here. i was just reading that thread about the 24/7/365 lights and am just fascinated by the concept. then i found this one which says a lot of the same things but is a nice summary--wish i had found it first!

apple--i really like the chart with the volume calculation. one thing is that weight needs to be factored in there as well i think, especially for neck carry. although the la petit killer may be wider than some, i'll be it is lighter than almost all of them.

my question to the group is: what makes the "best" tiny light (maybe we could call 'em "pico lights" so folks know what we mean?)?

-James

applevision · Apr 23, 2009

Hey Phos4, I will try to do a weight one, though it makes the chart start to get busy. I had played with it a bit... perhaps I'll do a second version. If some good soul will pull all the weights for me that will make it much easier! :poke:

Also, kaichu dento made a great suggestion: to re-order the chart from crappiest LUMEN:VOLUME to best. Here it is!

It's actually pretty insane once you think about it... There is a range that is 2 orders of magnitude between them! The Draco, with it's insane output for size, and then the poor little Mako that is a great light, no doubt, but large given what it puts out. Of course, we're also neglecting runtime which is really important and would tell a VERY different story between the Mako and the Draco... and THAT is why I love this forum!

Phos4 · Apr 23, 2009

i was thinking that if someone made a firefli remake that got even as little as 25 lumens, that would put it at: 0.017 which would be between the wee and the drake!

if they got it to produce 50 lumens, that'd be double = 0.034 which would blow even the draco out of the water! in fact, if my math serves me, you'd need only about 35 lumens to be at the top of this chart. so if there is a maker who can squeeze 35 lumens from a tiny tube and a tiny bulb they will be king. apple, please add my name to the list of those interested. thanks kindly.

-James

kaichu dento · Apr 23, 2009

Phos4 said:
my question to the group is: what makes the "best" tiny light?
-James

Generally you can find preferences for lights either by overall output, looks, size, uniqueness or a combination thereof.

My preference goes, in no particular order, form, size, output (and variability), beam shape/quality, tint, UI and durability. Not having yet found a light that I feel is my perfect choice I'm mostly happy with my Draco.

applevision said:
Also, kaichu dento made a great suggestion: to re-order the chart from crappiest LUMEN:VOLUME to best. Here it is!

It's actually pretty insane once you think about it... There is a range that is 2 orders of magnitude between them! The Draco, with it's insane output for size, and then the poor little Mako that is a great light, no doubt, but large given what it puts out. Of course, we're also neglecting runtime which is really important and would tell a VERY different story between the Mako and the Draco... and THAT is why I love this forum!

Thanks Apple! Great point too about the importance of considering the light as a whole without putting too much consideration on one singular point.

Flashlight Aficionado · Apr 23, 2009

Phos4 said:
apple--i really like the chart with the volume calculation. one thing is that weight needs to be factored in there as well i think, especially for neck carry. although the la petit killer may be wider than some, i'll be it is lighter than almost all of them.

That would be cool, but make a very ungainly chart. The Draco for instance, comes in Titanium, Goldplated and Aluminum(chromed). The Wee in NickelSilver, Titianium and Damascus. A lot of the others have material choices too. If it was done, it would have to be in the lightest material of each. Also poor applevision would then have to come up with a formula for lumens per volume/weight. I really don't think it is worth it.

Crenshaw · Apr 23, 2009

the picolight comes to mind..

hotlinking from that thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/82348 ...:duck:

Crenshaw
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/82348

NonSenCe · Apr 23, 2009

i just have to add the Lummi Raw AL too!

45mm length x 18 mm diameter, 24 grams with Li-ion cell

even NS could fit in to this cathegory (40g with the cell)
both available with 20/100 or 20/100 or 100/200lumens.

and where are Zebralights? i think they should also be on the tiny lights thread. (yes not lanyard carry, and are flood only, but they are bright and small anyways)

h50: it is still pretty small for AA, i presume? 66,5mm x 18,3mm, 58g (with headband and battery).

h501: 71.2mm x 18.5mm = 41 g with battery.
h30: 56mm x25mm =40g with battery.

kaichu dento · Apr 23, 2009

With the thread being focused on Super Tiny lights I've actually wondered if AA, AAA and CR2 lights should be included, but the only reason the EZAA got on was because it's so small most of us thought it had to be something smaller than AA.

Going up into CR123 or other AA lights would definitely be outside the category of Super Tiny lights, or at least I think so. :candle:

applevision · Apr 23, 2009

NonSenCe said:
i just have to add the Lummi Raw AL too!

45mm length x 18 mm diameter, 24 grams with Li-ion cell

even NS could fit in to this cathegory (40g with the cell)
both available with 20/100 or 20/100 or 100/200lumens.

and where are Zebralights? i think they should also be on the tiny lights thread. (yes not lanyard carry, and are flood only, but they are bright and small anyways)

h50: it is still pretty small for AA, i presume? 66,5mm x 18,3mm, 58g (with headband and battery).

h501: 71.2mm x 18.5mm = 41 g with battery.
h30: 56mm x25mm =40g with battery.

Thanks guys!

Flashlight Aficionado, thanks for the support and wisdom... I might try picking the best of the best and doing some "April Madness" final four work with them... looking at the top contenders in more depth and detail... stay tuned! :popcorn:

Crenshaw, the picolight is looking sweet! I want to add that and a regular photon/fauxton to this chart... have to guess at a volume calculation... Any suggestions, math people? :thinking:

NonSenCe, good point about the Lummi Raw... Added! As for the other options, I will consider them all. I'm thinking of making a tighter chart and getting rid of the bigger ones--basically would like to keep diameter under 18mm, maybe even less... We shall see...

Here is that new chart with the Raw:

As you can see, it does very well and falls just behind the Draco and the Drake.

kaichu dento, I totally agree. As this is your brain child, when I get some time soon I will edit the chart to be more focused.

Thanks guys!!

Phos4 · Apr 23, 2009

i wanted to recommend another light here:

the photon freedom. these are great little lights that i keep on my zipper pulls. they haven't ever failed me.

41mm x 23 mm x 7 mm ; and i'd say about 10-15 lumens--suckers are bright.

applevision · Apr 23, 2009

New chart with Fauxton added--I estimated on the higher side (thanks Phos4 for the numbers) since I do feel that a fresh fauxton is pretty bright.

I looked and looked but could not find much info about the Picolights anymore--Crenshaw, any ideas if these are still around?

Okay, then I wanted to make a chart of just the little guys, as per kaichu dento's suggestion. I used a volume of <10,000 as the critera and we are left with no AA lights. I also added in the rough price of each. I tried to use the cheapest model to be most fair:

And now the coup de grâce:

As we can see, the Fauxton (essentially free with orders from many flashlight dealers, or bought in tremendous bulk from various sites) is impossible to beat. The next cheapest option, another bulk cheapy, is 3 orders of magnitude more expensive! To be fair, that is only because I priced it a a penny... the KD would actually be better by this metric if you paid $1 for it... The La Petit Killer (a fabulous light which I just received myself and have yet to take pics of and write about!) is expensive compared to the others, but is exceptionally tiny and lightweight and is not meant to be a powerful light... similar to the plight of the Mako.

Anyway, I'd love everyone's thoughts on all of this and I'm eager to add to these charts with exciting new lights!!
:twothumbs

kaichu dento · Apr 23, 2009

applevision said:
kaichu dento, I totally agree. As this is your brain child, when I get some time soon I will edit the chart to be more focused.

You're the one doing all the work and putting together these great lists and charts for us. :thumbsup:

Can't wait to hear something about the new tiniest, best looking necklace light on earth!

Flashlight Aficionado · Apr 23, 2009

applevision - O.K., I don't understand the chart. Is a higher number better or worse for dollar per lumen/volume?

keysandslots · Apr 24, 2009

No MJP Extreme Micro? I have two, they are amazing.

Randy

applevision · Apr 24, 2009

Flashlight Aficionado said:
applevision - O.K., I don't understand the chart. Is a higher number better or worse for dollar per lumen/volume?

Hey Flashlight Aficionado, I agree it is a confusing compound metric.

I am thinking of it like this: if the lumens:volume ratio is sort of a "performance" index--higher is better (i.e., more light for a given size), then this is a ratio of how much money it is costing you per unit of "performance"--thus, for the new ratio, lower = better.

Code:

[FONT=courier new]            $/LUMEN/mm^3:
Fauxton             [B]4[/B] ($0.01 used for calculation)
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]KD              1,000
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]Wee             3,072 
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]Nano            4,000[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new]FireFli         5,882 ($20 used for calc)
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]Draco           6,054
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]Drake           6,359
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]LaPetit        [B]73,076[/B]
 [/FONT]

So here we are paying only $4 dollars per unit of performance for the Fauxton vs. paying $73,076 dollars per unit of performance for the La Petit Killer! Now, this is a HIGHLY DANGEROUS MYOPIC way to look at these lights and is a gross oversimplification, BUT, it really does answer the question: which has the brightest bang for its size and price!

The answer would be that the free Fauxtons win everytime because they are free... but removing those (and the nearly-free KD lights), we can see that of "normally" priced lights, the Lummi Wee is the winner! For the $50 or so dollars, you get an incredible amount of brightness-to-size!
The next up is the Streamlight Nano--much less bright than the Wee, but waaaay cheaper (like $8 shipped, less at some stores I am sure).
Then the FireFli which is super tiny (the tiniest of all!) but pretty dim and fairly pricey (~$20 when you could buy one, but now not really available). Then you have your Drake and Draco, and then finally the La Petit Killer--which looks to be a poor value (10 times poorer than the Draco in fact!), but again we must remember that it is light designed for a very specific task. And it is also a work of art! The machining is gorgeous so to me and many others, it is well worth the $95 paid to Fred who is a master.

My dream light would cost abour $40-$60 and be made like the La Petit Killer in terms of the beauty, the titanium, and the quality. But I'd like a bit more light, putting it in the range of 25 lumens. Finally, I'd like a size about the size of the FireFli or perhaps more of the shape of a Fauxton. I think that this light would be a winner and could be worn by every Flashaholic!

applevision · Apr 24, 2009

keysandslots said:
No MJP Extreme Micro? I have two, they are amazing.

Randy

Hey keysandslots, from what I can tell, this is a CR123 light and is sort of the next level up size-wise from our littlest guys... Is it around the size of the Aeon? Can you give me length and diameter measurements and do you know a max lumens output number? Finally, are these still available?

Thanks!

HKJ · Apr 24, 2009

applevision said:
Hey Flashlight Aficionado, I agree it is a confusing compound metric.

I am thinking of it like this: if the lumens:volume ratio is sort of a "performance" index--higher is better (i.e., more light for a given size), then this is a ratio of how much money it is costing you per unit of "performance"--thus, for the new ratio, lower = better.

This kind of statistic is fun to do, but not really useful.

It is a bit like asking, what is best high output for a short time of low output for a long time? Either can be useful, depending on the situation. A like with both possibilities would win this kind of contest. But a light with multiple output levels might loose a UI contest, not all people like the complexity of multiple settings.

As can be seen form a picture in this thread (It is ok that you use it), I have a bit of everything and I would not rate any of light as best. I like most of my lights, but they have different applications. No number game can be used to rate them.

keysandslots · Apr 24, 2009

MJP Extreme Micro:

L = 45mm
Dia = 20mm
Battery is a CR2

Not sure if these are still available.

Randy

HKJ · Apr 24, 2009

keysandslots said:
MJP Extreme Micro:

L = 45mm
Dia = 20mm
Battery is a CR2

Not sure if these are still available.

Randy

They are a big compare to drake, but rather small for a CR2 light.

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