Lights as a result of your learning curve.

I've noticed there are several phases that people go through as they learn about lights and acquire them. Not everyone is the same of course....more output...less output...cheap...expensive...cheap again (or not)...whatever the trend...

I'm curious as to how many of you (unless you're primarily into collecting lights) have, as a result of your learning curve, found the functional group of lights for your needs and then stopped there?

I've bought some lights of various types just to try them out firsthand. As a result, at the moment anyway, I'm satisfied and am not really looking at buying more.

I have a small simple light that I will actually carry with me most of the time (1 AAA one mode twisty).

I have a 5 mode CR123 light that is still small but with a little more versatility that I keep in the car.

There is a Surefire 6P that was a gift that stays in the nightstand next to a pistol.

For longer burn times and for more output if needed I have a XP-G light using one 18650 so using it freely is no problem since I can recharge it.

Lastly, just because...I have a Photon Pro that is versatile and yet isn't used as often as some of the others. I like it because it's small (1 AA) and can be worn around the neck and then tucked into my shirt. I use it camping, when rock climbing when the sun may go down on me before I get out of there and for any other reason when you want to be able to ramp the output to a very low level.

That covers everything for me.

If I was collecting I would have a thrower, a flood, a ...and the list would go on but as far as what I actually need a light for I think I've got it covered. (I actually have a cheap thrower as well as several other lights that were part of the learning curve).

I also have a green laser pointer that I consider more or less in the flashlight category. I just got it but am looking forward to being able to go climbing in the wide open spaces and use that a bit just for fun and it could be useful when discussing a route.

How many of you have found your small group of lights? List them if you care to along with your reasoning as to why they are in your "group".

I'm pretty simple due to budget. Since I have too many hobbies already, I can't afford to spurge on too many lights. Thus, I just stick to what I need.

EDC: Fenix LD20

Backpack carry: Fenix TK40

If I splurge on anything flashlight related, it will probably be on a Fenix TK45 when that comes out.

I kind of joined the flashlight game late, so I didn't spend a lot of time and money on lights that were later replaced as my knowledge grew.

I have a fairly static "core" group of lights, but I am not resistant to change if something better comes along. I have no particular attachment to anything except the PD.

Right now I have the McLuxIII Ti PD-S Mizer as my primary EDC. It covers most of my needs, as it is sufficiently bright and dim, easy to carry and rock solid. On its high mode it runs for 3 hours, so runtime is never an issue.

Paired with it is my Muyshondt Mako 60º, which I understand is one of five ever made and the perfect compliment -- a perfect flood with a neutral white tint and insanely long runtimes -- 20 and 60 hours. I use this only at night when it is dark and it is perfect when my eyes are night-adjusted. I wear this one on a lanyard.

On my keys is my trusty Arc-AAA. It's not the brightest or longest running but it is reliable and tiny. I hardly ever use it but I know it will work if or when I should need it.

I also like to keep around one extremely powerful light, which I usually carry in my jacket pocket or a bag but is not always with me, and as technology keeps changing so does that light -- right now it is a Surefire C2 with a Malkoff M61. It is in danger of being replaced by a Surefire E2+VME with a Malkoff drop-in of some kind, most likely the M61.

I argue against the AA form factor all the time but it has its uses due to the high availability of cells. I don't usually carry an AA compatible light but I do keep a couple around, and right now the ICON Rogue 2 and Peak El Capitan are at the top of my list for that. They have low energy requirements and perfectly complement the poor voltage output of the AA form factor.

I have a Surefire Saint on the way and it will replace my somewhat inadequate Petzl E+Lite for my headlamp needs.

I use an Inova X5 around the house as a "battery vampire" to polish off cells that aren't quite used up but still have a decent amount of juice.

There are other lights that I have been playing with recently and really like. Right now I am trying to find a solid niche for my Preon II, Quark MiNi 123, Surefire G3 with Malkoff M60LF and Ti Nautilus. Lately the MiNi and Preon have found their way into my EDC but having 4 lights in my pockets seems like overkill.

Mostly I have settled down to cr123x2 lights 5 inch or less and the backup light I carry is always of the single cr123 variety.

Now it doesn't help curb my buying because so many good lights fall into my preferd category's.

I have learned that in the outdoor environments I am likely to find myself, about 100 lumens is the bare minimum in a handheld light. Anything with a lower output gets swallowed up quickly by the dark greens, browns, and blacks around me.

As output increases, color rendition is less of an issue FOR ME.

I favor lights that can use CR123s/18650's and stock up on batteries accordingly. During emergencies, I can always find CR123s in the stores. YMMV

Lights with similar UI's make transitioning from light source to light source much easier.

A light that is not designed to be water resistant is a light that is waiting to get flooded.

A water resistant light that is not properly cared for is a light that is waiting to get flooded.

Currently my ideal beam pattern comes from an XP-G out of one of McGizmo's reflectors. A surprisingly even beam for close up work, and some punch that is good out to medium distances.

Dual or multi-level is a requirement.

With these things in mind, I have settled on my current lineup:
Haiku XP-G as my main EDC.

Solarforce host with nailbender SST-50 drop-in on a 18650 for when I need short bursts of 400+ lumens.

fivemega 26650 host (that I made a spacer to fit 18650's if needed) with the aforementioned drop in for when I need longer bursts of 400+ lumens.

Malkoff MD2 with incoming M61 and two stage ring (XP-G in a McGizmo reflector) as my main outdoor light.

The Malkoff is the only light that does not have a multi-press type UI, and I did that because I'm trying it out to see how I like it. So far, i like it, but I need time to get used to it. I almost always quick press the switch to try and change levels.

I'm pretty much a fool. I started with a Led Lenser P7 and came here six months back lurking for info on something to replace it with. Eventually I joined CPF and thanks to exposure to more information, more sellers and more advertising I now have nearly twenty torches (quarks, Fenixes, nitecores, an eagletac and a bunch of lesser name things). I also have acquired a complete rechargeable AA/AAA NiMH setup and a comprehensive Li-Ion rechargeable setup.

Thing is, if I'm speaking honestly to myself and looking at things realistically, for all practical intents and purposes I would have been far better off sticking with the original LL P7 and just adding the rechargeable NiMH's to it. That would have suited my personal uses much better than any of the later, more "sophisticated" torches I bought.

I've learnt that the adjustable focus P7 does pretty much all my jobs better for me than any of the rest except in two areas, it's lack of a clip and its bulkiness when it comes to fitting a pocket.

So sure, I know a fair bit more about torches now than I did before I was "edumacated" but but I'm just an ordinary off the street bloke with zero desire to be a "flashaholic" and frankly I believe I'm no better off for having that extra knowledge unless it's to know that for my uses I just don't need all this technical stuff like regulation, strobing, programmability and silly looking pointed jaws in a torch.

So to answer the header question, how have things chaged for me due to my "learning curve"? .... well I've basically come full circle but my wallet is lighter, my drawers are full of newfangled torch junk and my life is shorter.

For me:

Want lots of output, not willing to spend lots of money -> Want lots of output, willing to spend lots of money -> Want lots of quality, don't care so much about output, willing to spend lots of money

Also, in terms of UI I went through:

Want instant access to lots of modes + features -> Just want one or two well chosen levels that work and won't be switched by accident

Also more runtime has become more appealing to me. In the beginning I'd have preferred something with tons of modes and a high mode that only lasts a half hour but was really bright. Now I'd rather buy something with one low mode that lasts forever + one high mode that lasts... many hours. This is much more useful for things like camping/backpacking. If I'm out backpacking and I have a light with a high mode only lasting <1 hour, I'll never use that mode because I don't have the batteries to spare.

I've learned that some lights have clips and I don't want them and some lights have crenelated bezels and I don't want them either.

Programing to me only means that I can eliminate the strobes and that I can potentially pick the output levels and order of low, medium, and high.

Expensive lights never made sense to me and still don't.

I've learned that beam quality is something that doesn't exist in the way I would like for it to so I have to just make do.

I've gone through quite a few phases involving lights. My first "real" LED was the Minimag 3aa LED. I was so impressed that I had to search for better, brighter lights. That is until I seen the prices of some. So I found DX and from there found KD, ordered a few cheap lights (all Romisens, all good) then an MTE P7, it sucked. Found this site, bought some more Mags, built a ROP(with my old Mag), bought a Fenix, the Fenix sucked (TK20), liked the color, looked for other NW lights, settled on the Romisen RC-N3 WW, liked the CR123a's, bought a G2 incan and loved it. I was content for quite a long while. Then I registered for CPF and the MP and seen an announcement for the P20C2 MKII and had to have it, I'm broke but bought it anyways after waiting for it to be released, along with an AW 17670. And as soon as the EagleTac Modules come out I'll get the NW version, then a Mag XL100 & ML100. After that I'll be done buying lights for a looooong time... Except for the EagleTac modules. I wish I could set up a deal with EagleTac-usa.com where they charge my card and send me new modules as they come out (with a simple call or email of course, to see if I have the funds at the time) so I don't have to even go to their site to order them, where I would most likely see new lights and impulse buy them.

My core lights are basically the only ones I use.

Light...Use

2D Mag W/5cell magnum star/ROP HI-LO...General outdoors light. Is rechargeable, great to hold most of the time, and just plain simple with an excellent beam.

Surefire G2...For times when the 2D Mag is too big, and for hunting. The color is better than just about anything I could ever use, doesn't get cold to the touch, and it laughs at scratches and dents. Oh, and the switch is how a tail cap switch should be.

Romisen RC-N3 WW...Around the house inside and out. And as back up to the G2 while hunting. As small as I would go. I have smaller, but they are terrible to use. I use it in 1 Cr123a mode.

EagleTac P20C2 MKII...For whatever kind of use. It's bright as hell, is the perfect size, and looks pretty sweet, soon to be upgradeable, and is very well built.

2C Mag...Nightstand.
6D Mag...In the truck.



The first 4 on the list I'll never get rid of along with my incan Minimag.

All these phases led me to 4 lights that I really enjoy using, and they cover all my uses very well.

Although, if I could start over, I would just buy 3 Surefires(C2, G2, G3) and 4 Malkoffs(M60W, WL, WLL, 2D Mag Drop-in), a spares carrier, A big box of cr123a's and be done with buying lights and just upgrade the drop-ins every couple of years. Would Have saved lots of money!

Looking back, I was perfectly fine with my Incan Minimag, and Mag 2D Incan as my only lights...

To summarize my "phases", they went like this:
Start...Minimag 3AA Led
Phase 1...B & M LED lights (Dorcy etc...)
Phase 2...KD & DX lights.
Phase 3...LSD nimh
Phase 4...Maglites
Phase 5...Neutral White LED's
Phase 6...Incans
Phase 7...CR123a's
End...2 more lights in mind then I'm done for a long time!


As a result though, I learned what type of lights work best for my use.

i have only begun, but I hope I'll settle in with a set of lights that i'll EDC for a while...

- first one was a plastic, black body with purple highlights from Sears (3 pack, 2AA, 2C, 2D; dad grabbed the 2C and 2D)... 2AA flashlight, incan bulb. never burnt out, just never had that high of an output. I'm not sure where it is now...
- Grade 4, EDC began with a 2AA incan; unfortunately it blew out after a few hours of usage. still have it, wonder if I can use it as a host...
- yellow plastic 2C incan, more durable, more light, never did fully drain the batts... sitting on the table beside me, behind lots of other junk
- 1xAAA twisty aluminum aspherical 5mm LED, never could bring myself to EDC that thing (loved it, didn't want to break or lose it), still on its original alkaline (at least 5 years) and still serves as a nightstand light
- EDC carry 9LED 3xAAA plastic Garrity, was bright, but the split ring bore through the lanyard hole after a few months. currently sits at the computer table as light #2
- 3xAAA Luxeon I (Allied International Element clone, from costco), donated to my sister, quite bright (flashlightreviews pins it at 40 lumens at max), but VERY blue beam. However, extremely smooth beam. too big to EDC though.

I just got a delivery notice today as well, its either the 3 TK-703s i have on order for family members (shipped out on the 22nd from HK??), or the D10... Won't be able to pick it up til thursday, and Canada Post hasn't updated their delivery slip notice yet... Plan on easing my parents into it now, wonder if I should get them some low end Ti lights...


EDC lights
- Zebralight SC5 OP
- Zebralight H502d for colour rendition!

Home lights
- TK-566, retired.
- D10 Tribute (#00439) as my bedside light!
- iTP Eluma SA2, backup household light
- Thrunite Ti Firefly on the way!
- Jetbeam RRT-0 XM-L with a 14500
- L3 Illumination L10 with Nichia 219
- RC-C8 II as an outside the house light.
- RC-C8 XM-L as a bike light. Zoom is configured to give a wide-ish square beam, perfect upper cutoff like a car headlight!

I feel like I've done petty well. Over the course of 3 years I have acquired 5 nice lights.
1st- Fenix P3D- great all purpose semi-edc
2nd- Dereelight DBS MC-E- Field lighter upper
3rd- Fenix E01 Keychain
4th- Quark mini 123 official EDC
5th- Eagletac T20C2 mk2 Tactical light

I spend months researching before I buy a light so most of the time I am 100% pleased with my decision.
And I think its very important to pace thyself!

One of my first lights was a dorcy k2 terminator with 6AA's.

What a piece of junk. You'd think with 6 AA's you'd get some decent runtime but the brightness drops off so fast. Very purplish beam. Incredibly tight hotspot though, which I guess would be good if you were looking for a thrower.
Still, I never used it.

My ideal light collection will consist of:

one very bright led torch (building sst-90 at the moment)
one pocket torch (carry macs sst-50 everywhere)
one above average incandescant (5761 right now)
one thrower torch (dbs v2 with 5a q2 at the moment)
and one long running torch (waiting to build 3c with nuetral xp-g)

They must all be rechargeable which leads me to keeping a small collection because I dont want to spend the rest of my life charging batteries.

I'm in phase one which is buy any and everything :devil:
I am using this approach to hopefully give me an idea of all the different types of flashlights so that I can possibly figure out which I like best.

But I must confess, I haven't met a flashlight that I haven't liked. There were a couple that just weren't my cup of tea; two come to mind, a Streamlight Sidewinder and an Aleph III in Camouflage. Nothing wrong with them, they just didn't appeal to me.

lovecpf
Lisa

Great thread.

I have a bunch of lights as a result of my learning curve and since I'm an addict I keep buying them and continue to learn. I'm currently going through a phase actually but I think the biggest step was going from ican to led, I will never look back on that one and debate whether or not to get rid of some of my icans.

gcbryan said:

Expensive lights never made sense to me and still don't.

I've learned that beam quality is something that doesn't exist in the way I would like for it to so I have to just make do.

Click to expand...

I think what we have here is a case of causality. Beam quality comes with better torches, which in turn cost more money.

I have no particular light-buying agenda. Since long before finding The LED Museum, then CPF I was attracted to flashlights, especially small ones. I could say I'm frugal, but cheap would be closer to the truth. For this reason I could count on one hand my lights that are worth more than $50. On the other hand I've probably got more than fifty that fall in the less than $20 range. I absolutely love to find some oddball little light that's different from others I have. Maybe I'm more crazy than cheap, but it's all for fun. It's just tough for me to justify buying expensive lights since I have no need for top of the line capabilities. I think I picked up on my father's view towards not having, in his words, "champagne tastes".

The "medium quality" lights I carry and use most are always subject to change. If something new comes along that is some improvement whether in output, UI, or size I might go for it. Usually I'll wait for reviews, but not very long. There are no lists or goals involved. No particular brand loyalty, either, in spite of a love affair with LiteFlux. I'll drop them cold when another of better value emerges. Thanks to CPF and all the great people here I'm always learning and my light stable is always changing.

Geoff

DM51, that is hilarious. :rofl: Lisantica, how is your strategy working out for you? I think I remember you buying an M6 near the start of all this which for some brought you to the head of the class.

As for me

1) Costco Solar & Battery Powered LED
2) Fenix TA21 (first taste of the good stuff)
3) EagleTac T100C2 / Fenix TK11 (nice but wanted bigger guns)
4) SureFire 6P (the gateway drug/starter lego host)
5) FiveMega Hosts / Nailbender drop-ins (my drug dealers on speed dial)
6) SureFire 6P w/ incans (makes you feel all warm inside)
7) Maglite Mods (back to the future or stone age)

sorry for the long mega post.

my learning curve is still going on. i think.

what i have learned:

there is not a "do it all" flashlight for me. different tasks have different lighting needs.

always carry a backup flashlight. preferably either of common battery type (AA or AAA) or backup must use the same battery type as your main light.

i like rechargables. and use primaries only as spare batteries.

i dont carry spare batteries. i carry a backup light that carries my spare battery. (one is none, two is one.. so i carry normally atleast 3 with me)

i like the option of having a common household battery type like AA or AAA just in case if i do need to find spare batteries in general store or steal them from a tv remote or something. (not that i have needed to do that yet. i have been fine with my backups if the main light has run empty)

i tried the cr123s but i found out that i like the slightly longer and leaner body of the AA lights better. (the cr123s feel too short for my hands to use and hold easily.especially for longer times)

i like lights that do work with different batterytypes.. either by legoing bodies and parts or just the ability to run on 18650s or two cr123s or 14500/AA nimh/alkaline/lithium. no matter what type of battery you have at hand you can find a light that runs with it.

i soon learned important thing that i prefer NOT to have blinker modes (sos strobe etc)

i prefer them to be only available by programming or hidden away like in the 47s mini series.

i seem to like the cliky button more than twisty. (one handed operation)

i like more of foward cliky as i love momentary output.

i do have more reverse clickys tho.. (its just more common type of clicky in multimode lights as the momentary clicky in multimode is pain in butt)

i go again back to the aspect of having a specific light for specific task.. if i know i need momentary alot, i use one that has it.. if not i may use others. (its common that i have one of each type with me)

there is no such thing as too bright light.. but there is a light that is too bright for certain task and there are lights that are not bright enough. pick the right one.

most important is to have the option of choosing what output you need and want to use.

runtime is important.

regulation is nice.

i prefer ramp up feature. low-med-high.

i prefer not to have more than 4 output modes at use at a time.

i like to have a true low low mode too.

programmable lights are rare but they are cool. because they allow you to change the way light works if you need to.

i dont like mode memory. i rather have the light be simple to use. starts always when i turn it on from the place it should. is it ramp up or ramp down. always from the 1st mode. or mode you select by twisting the bezel or something.

smooth beam and artifact free spill is nice. bright spill is nice.

more floody for edc role (throwers are special task lights)

i really like neutral or warmer tints because of their slightly higher cri.

i hate blue and green tints. pink etc is not cool either. even pure white seems too harsh for my eyes. but i do like it alot more than greenandblue..

i like most of my edc lights to have a pocket clip. lately it has served as an anti roll feature mostly. and quick way to determine which way the light is in my hand.

the pocket clip should be designed as a integral part of flashlight. not a cheap crap add on.

DEEP carry.

bezel down.

can be reversable too.

but they also must have a lanyard hole. as most of time my most used edc light is carried via lanyard. second backup is in holster. and one is in keychain.

i am firm believer of my own rule. flashlights must be cheap enough so you can ULBAR them without a worry. you must have afford to USE, LOOSE, BREAK, AND REPLACE them with ease.

they cant be too expensive or exotic to use. they are tools and use em like that. price of the lights you use most should be something you can buy again without breaking your bank. afford to replace it if it breaks or gets lost within a month or so. to me that is about 70 dollars or less. most of mine that i use are about 50.

.. newer direction in my learning curve.. im going to minimal size. itp eos i blame you! hah. small cheap and powerful. also im thinking about increasing the price limit i keep on my lights.

started with bigger one that was sturdy,tk11. got couple cheap dx lights to test which features i like and which dont. and kept on buying and testing lights to see what i need and want. and still do it even today.

(and im sure i have forgotten some aspect by now.. too long post..)

see.. im still on the curve but i am starting to get a clearer understanding of what would be the right one for me.

i think this is the rough summary: neutral tint. low low, bright high, and atleast one in between. good regulation and runtime. ramp up/programmable. or hidden extra features away from normal light outputmodes. momentary foward clicky. good pocket clip lanyard hole and holster. length about 3-6 inches. can use different battery types/chemistry.. general size preference makes it to use common AA battery size.