maglite xl100 / fenix ld20 question

luisdent

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I was wondering if anyone could answer a few questions for me. I have electronics education and reasonable knowledge of led technology and flashlights. However, I am by no means a flashaholic though (or should I say 'yet') :p

Anyhow, I was just able to get a maglite xl100 for $15 in exchange for a aa-led model that fused shut from leaky duracells (I left them in it unused for over a year), so I figured it was worth the small price (relatively speaking) to upgrade. I know some look at maglite as a sub-pro flashlight, but they are reasonably durable (I ran over a aa-mag with my car once with not even a scratch), and the newer LED models are decent given the price. And $15 for a $40 light? Seemed like a deal.

So, either way, I've been researching a boat-load and am very interested in picking up a fenix LD10 or LD20, most likely the LD20. But I'm wondering how it compares to a light like the XL100. I've read the specs and whatnot, but I'm looking to find how it turns out in real usage. For instance, 200 lumens tightly focused isn't the same as 200 lumens spread out with a diffused focuser.

The xl100 claims to be 85 lumens running for 5.5 hours roughly, with 200 hours on low (no lumen listed), although it seems to be about half of my 8 lumen nite-ize led module, so I'm guessing 4 lumens or so? Anyhow, it takes 3x AAA alkaline only batteries in a carrier, which in my mind is a big knock mostly due to the fact that I want to use NiMH batteries.

The fenix would be one or two AA and could be NiMH. Big plus! Also, the fenix models boast brighter outputs. The xl100 has the new "user interface" utilizing the accelerometer, however I've been using it, and while it is interesting, I don't think it adds much of an improvement over the fenix interface. As a matter of fact, it seems difficult to guess which mode you're activating in the dark. You not only have to remember the positions, but also the exact degree to turn the barrel to that mode. I consider myself an advanced user, but I still find that modes other than brightness can take multiple tries to find.

Anyhow, the real reason for the post:

Would the fenix's higher output "actually" be that much better in real use? Is it noticeably brighter?

If I get a fenix, is there any opinion on the ld10 vs. the ld20? I know the technical differences, but it seems to mostly come down to sacrificing size for runtime. The ld20 does give you the higher turbo mode, but all other modes are roughly identical with twice the runtime. Ironically, you can just carry one extra battery for the ld10 and get the same runtime with the same number of batteries, albeit losing the optional lumen boost in turbo mode. Is the difference worthwhile for the size? Does the size actually make the ld20 easier to hold and use?

I would be using this as my EDC/only flashlight. My maglite xl100 would turn into a house or car emergency light with spare AAA batteries. I also have the niteize which is pretty useless other than reading with it or stuff around the house. And I have a princeton tec EOS which is fabulous, but I find the headlamp doesn't work as well for stargazing (no filters/awkward to hold) and would be solely for hiking, general use.

The fenix has diffusers, filters, bike-mount, etc. So it seems like a whole lighting solution! I would probably never use another light unless I happen to not have the fenix around (yeah right). So what to do? LD10? LD20? Am I missing anything? I've compared other brands, and think fenix is for me if I get one. Please let me know if anyone can help. :-O Sorry for the long post!
 

PerttiK

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Which ever one you get try to get it with orange peel reflector, other R4 and R5 fenixes with a smooth reflectors tend to have a dark spot "donut" in the middle of the beam.
LD20 is exactly one length of an AA battery longer than the LD10, so you might as well carry the extra battery in the torch, but the 30+ hours on low and around 6 hours with 50 lumens in LD10 are more than enough for me.
I carry LD10 in my winter coats pocket, and LD20 is my utility light.
Both my lamps are Q5 with OP reflector.

And... :welcome:
 
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GadgetGeek

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I would go for the LD20. I gave my XL100 away after I bought an LD20. Yes, it is much brighter and with the orange peel reflector the beam pattern is perfect unlike the XL100.
 

PCC

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I am by no means a flashaholic though (or should I say 'yet') :p
With four lights you're well on your way :D

...it takes 3x AAA alkaline only batteries in a carrier, which in my mind is a big knock mostly due to the fact that I want to use NiMH batteries.
Yes, it will run on NiMH batteries. It'll also run on lithium primaries (NOT Li-Ions!!!). Lithium primaries = Energizer L92.

Would the fenix's higher output "actually" be that much better in real use? Is it noticeably brighter?
It's better to have and not need than to need and not have. For close-in work you probably only need around 0.8-10 lumens. For medium distances (20-50 feet) you'll need more like 50-60 lumens. For longer distances (50-150 feet) you need more like 100 lumens. Beyond that you probably need 200 lumens. The question is, how many times would you need to light something up beyond about 150 feet? All this depends on whether or not the light has a tight beam. Tighter beams require less lumens to reach out. Floody beams need more lumens to reach further distances. My 110 lumen 2D Rebel MagLED will out throw my 500 lumen SSC P7 Mag-mod by four to one. The P7 Mag will light up my entire back yard while the Rebel Mag will only light up a small spot on tight focus.
 

Chicago X

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....Yes, it will run on NiMH batteries. It'll also run on lithium primaries (NOT Li-Ions!!!). Lithium primaries = Energizer L92....

+1

It seems to run substantially brighter on rechargeable Duraloop AAAs as well.
 

luisdent

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+1

It seems to run substantially brighter on rechargeable Duraloop AAAs as well.

I've read a lot of people use NiMH in their mag led models. What concerns me is that the instructions state in bold:

"Use only alkaline batteries from a reputable manufacturer - Do not use rechargeable or reusable alkaline batteries."

Wouldn't that be NiMH? I've heard varying reasons, including mag's reason: that the led could be damaged. From what small electronics education I have, I would guess that the led damage would come from the higher voltage of a NiMH battery... ? I'm just shocked a lot of other brands have compatibility with NiMH. Did mag leave out some sort of circuit to adjust the voltage? Or do they want you to buy duracell? lol I don't want to break it. But I'll have my fenix anyway ;) haha
 

luisdent

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One more thing... Would anyone happen to have a pic of the xl100 next to the ld10 or ld20? I'm really curious to the size comparison. I know the general specs, but a picture supposedly says a thousand words.

The only thing I don't like ergonomically, is that the xl100 is a little chubby. It's a small light, but thick for a small light. And the whole body is the same size. I'd like to see how the ld10/20 look next to it for gripping.
 

ama230

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The maglite will have almost 3x the runtime on low and has a lifetime warranty.

The ld 20 does not have the nice warm vanilla tint of the maglite xl100. Also the nite lite feature and the lockout mode are what make the deal for me.

Also at amazon they are 30 bucks shipped and you can not go wrong.

Again its preference and the 3aaa fits perfectly in the hand and the little notch in the tailcap lets you know where you are at in the dark. You can get the novatac 1" lanyard ring or the 2aa maglite rubber anti roll bezel as these help with ergonomics. Also using lsd aaa's will not hurt it its just for marketing as duracell and maglite are buddies and this helps for marketing. The nimh batteries actually have a lower voltage and lower current so i do not know why they say this. The eneloops and tenergy lsd's will not leak and they will last a long time when storing this light for later use.

Again this is my opinion and the runtimes and tint are fact. also you can focus the maglite.... as i never do as i keep the head as tight as it can go for the perfect beam.

hope this helps...
eric
 

Imon

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I would keep the Maglite XL100 if for no other reason to collect it. I think the rotating dimming and strobe system is cool and quite unique. To be totally honest though, I've had one since ... April/May? of this year and it hasn't gotten much use since then :shrug:
Also this is just a hunch but I have a feeling the 200 hour runtime is a bit overstated. Perhaps what they're talking about is 200 hours on low in slow strobe mode :ironic:

As for your other flashlight desire I would look into a 4sevens quark AA^2 too. The moonlight mode will runs for weeks and it's competitively priced against the LD20. Just do a little research and you'll probably find what you want.
 
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Robin24k

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Anyhow, it takes 3x AAA alkaline only batteries in a carrier, which in my mind is a big knock mostly due to the fact that I want to use NiMH batteries.
You can use NiMH batteries in the XL100 with no problem (both of mine mainly use NiMH). In fact, with NiMH, the light is a little brighter than with alkaline.

I've read a lot of people use NiMH in their mag led models. What concerns me is that the instructions state in bold:

"Use only alkaline batteries from a reputable manufacturer - Do not use rechargeable or reusable alkaline batteries."

Wouldn't that be NiMH? I've heard varying reasons, including mag's reason: that the led could be damaged. From what small electronics education I have, I would guess that the led damage would come from the higher voltage of a NiMH battery... ? I'm just shocked a lot of other brands have compatibility with NiMH. Did mag leave out some sort of circuit to adjust the voltage? Or do they want you to buy duracell? lol I don't want to break it. But I'll have my fenix anyway ;) haha
It's for legal reasons, as the light was designed for alkalines to be the power source. NiMH has lower voltage than alkaline, so they definately won't damage the LED since these are regulated lights (even using Energizer L92/EA92, resulting in a pack voltage of over 5V, would be fine, I've done it myself and made current measurements).

A good idea to keep in mind is that the closer the pack voltage is to 3.7V, the less is wasted in the regulation circuitry. This would mean that NiMH are better for the XL100, and Energizer Lithium would be better for the 2AA LED.
 

ama230

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You can use NiMH batteries in the XL100 with no problem (both of mine mainly use NiMH). In fact, with NiMH, the light is a little brighter than with alkaline.


It's for legal reasons, as the light was designed for alkalines to be the power source. NiMH has lower voltage than alkaline, so they definately won't damage the LED since these are regulated lights (even using Energizer L92/EA92, resulting in a pack voltage of over 5V, would be fine, I've done it myself and made current measurements).

A good idea to keep in mind is that the closer the pack voltage is to 3.7V, the less is wasted in the regulation circuitry. This would mean that NiMH are better for the XL100, and Energizer Lithium would be better for the 2AA LED.

Thanks for clearing this up... As no one has mentioned this til you:twothumbs
Also what was the runtime for the light on eneloops, alkaline, lithium etc?
 

Robin24k

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Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to making runtime tests...I should probably do it at some point, definately at least NiMH vs. alkaline (as lithium batteries are too expensive, I have a pack of EA92's, but I've reserved those for emergency use).

Since I now have two XL100's, all the more reason to do it...I think that will be my mission tomorrow night. ;)
 

ama230

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Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to making runtime tests...I should probably do it at some point, definately at least NiMH vs. alkaline (as lithium batteries are too expensive, I have a pack of EA92's, but I've reserved those for emergency use).

Since I now have two XL100's, all the more reason to do it...I think that will be my mission tomorrow night. ;)

Cant wait as i have my second in the mail!:popcorn:

Also thanks for all the great work and awesome reviews. You are an awesome cpfer!!!!:twothumbs Definitely helped me and tons of others with their purchases and changed the way cpf is looked at for the better. Kudos!:p
 

Robin24k

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I'm about an hour and a half into the runtime test, and the NiMH light has started dropping below the alkaline light in brightness. Looks like longer runtime on alkaline, but more initial brightness with NiMH.

Interestingly enough, I got a solar powered light today, and I'm charging up its NiCd with the XL100's. Incredibly inefficient for sure (XL100's measured a peak temperature of about 95°F before I opened the window as the room temperature was 80°F), but at least some energy is saved. :D

EDIT: More info below...



XL100 #1
  • Sanyo Eneloop HR-4UTGA (new 1500 cycle type), minimum capacity 750mAh, brand new cells manufactured April 2010.
  • 0:00 - 1.312V average
  • 1:42 - 0.915V average
  • 1:47 - 1.049V average
  • 2:00 - 0.901V average
XL100 #2
  • Duracell Ultra MX2400, expiration date March 2013.
  • 0:00 - 1.485V average
  • 1:42 - 1.187V average
  • 2:00 - 1.181V average
  • 4:20 - 1.002V average
At the 2:00 mark, the NiMH light had dropped in brightness significantly, and at this point, I would recommend stopping further discharge of the batteries to prevent damage.

At the 4:20 mark, the alkaline light had dropped in brightness to the point of being barely useful.

Here is a link to runtime graphs from another member:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3340394
 
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Turbo DV8

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When a LED light is designed with alkaline in mind, it is because it's circuitry depends upon the higher internal resistance of an alkaline cell to limit the current to the LED. The reason your light ran brighter initially on NiMH even though the voltage of the cell is lower than an alkaline is because the NiMH has lower internal resistance and can supply more current at a lower voltage. So, technically, one could shorten the lifespan of an LED light designed for alkaline only, when driven with NiMH. But as the experience of many has shown, generally they can be operated safely on NiMH, and if the lifespan of a gazillion-hour LED is reduced by some percentage, it has not been shown or proven to fail within the lifetime of a consumer, or especially within the attention span a flashaholic has with his flavor-of-the-month flashlight affairs!
 
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luisdent

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But as the experience of many has shown, generally they can be operated safely on NiMH, and if the lifespan of a gazillion-hour LED is reduced by some percentage, it has not been shown or proven to fail within the lifetime of a consumer, or especially within the attention span a flashaholic has with his flavor-of-the-month flashlight affairs!

Haha. That's just classic... I think I'll risk it. Better performance or not, I'm not dumping dough into alkalines that get tossed every battery change. Yuck. I've been running my Princeton Tec EOS back and forth off the same two sets of energizer NiMH batteries for years. They're still going strong and last a good percentage of the original runtime.

But Robin24K, what do you mean by stopping before you cause damage? Should you not run any batteries too low? Or just the NiMH for some reason? Wouldn't they both continue to drop in voltage as they drain?

Found this too. Decent info:
http://michaelbluejay.com/batteries/tips.html#multiple

All this aside, is it still worth a fenix ld10 or ld20? :)
 
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Robin24k

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Turbo_DV8, I've made tailcap current measurements on NiMH, alkaline, and EA92, and determined them to all be close to each other (~0.560A). Emitter current isn't possible to measure on this light, so that's the best we've got.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3372927

My theory on why it's brighter on NiMH is due to the fact that the voltage is closer to 3.7V, so the regulation circuitry has to work less, therefore losing less power through inefficiency.
 

Robin24k

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But Robin24K, what do you mean by stopping before you cause damage? Should you not run any batteries too low? Or just the NiMH for some reason? Wouldn't they both continue to drop in voltage as they drain?
It's not good to overdischarge NiMH. It's best to stop when voltage drops below 1.0V.

All this aside, is it still worth a fenix ld10 or ld20? :)
My preference is for domestic lights running on common batteries. Many feel differently, but regardless of how good the product is, I would recommend considering that quality control, customer service, and warranty often cannot compare to that of domestic products.
 

luisdent

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It's not good to overdischarge NiMH. It's best to stop when voltage drops below 1.0V.


Oh, so you mean to keep the NiMH batteries in good condition. Not the flashlight?

Also, does anyone know if the standard AA mag filters work on the Xl100? Mag says the lens is not removable, but I thought the rubber no-roll cap was supposed to hold the filter on the outside of the normal lens??? And what about other accessories? That's the main reason I'm leaning towards a fenix.

However, I was just told the red filter and low setting of the fenix would still be too high for preserving night vision. So now I'm all confused. I want a perfect flashlight! haha. So far I like the XL100 a a lot, but I haven't had luck making my own red filter, and I want a belt sheath/clip.

I think I'll start a new thread on that topic though.
 
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