mag 2d with Quad XRE or SST-50?

Hi, I've been lurking a while and trying to take in what I can. I have an older LED 2D Mag that I'd like to use as a host. I have 15 CW XRE Q5's on stars from another project that is available. I was thinking of using 4 of them for the mag. The sst-50 seems to be a popular choice as well, and i'm having a hard time deciding which route would operate better. Since I haven't picked a driver yet, I'm still undecided on power source/regulation. I have a bunch of ultrafire 18650's and 16340's that I could use. But i'm open to battery options.

I don't think cost will be factor, Since the only thing I have is the mag and xre's. The one thing that may sway my decision one way or the other is the head on the mag. I don't have the updated rebel luxeon version. It has the luxeon III driver instead and probably the standard incan head (non deep).

In order to help make a decision, can someone comment on the pro's/cons of going either a quad XRE or single SST-50? I'd like a good all around light and that has some decent throw to it as well. How possible is it to get 1000 lumens with either choice?

Thanks! Let me know if there's anything I can answer that will help.

If you're sticking to lower-end batteries (ultrafire), try to keep the current draw down. 1A could be fine. So that'd make a nice 4s xre light, you could do low/mid/high with the SB driver using download's poorman's multi-lux technique. But there's no good way to fit 4s into the 2D. (unless you went a custom 2 16340 down and 2 back up, all in series, for 4s total, but then at 1Amp your run-time is ~35minute?)
I'd stay clear the big die luminus leds unless you're going to get a custom power source for them (hybrid nimh C or D, IMR's).
Otherwise you can make a fancy light on paper, but when you take the tail-cap reading you'll find you're only getting 1.5A at the tail, and your cells will start self-discharging after a few cycles.
IMHO the easiest way for you to break 1000lumens is an 8s (eneloop) hotwire. Run an WA 1164, a 1185, or a Hikari JC5607. (get an FM bi-pin holder for short run-time use, or a Kiu socket to tolerate the heat if you'd like to use it for longer runs).

If you're sticking to LED's, you'll need a strong heatsink to break 1000lumens. As your xre's are only Q5, possibly easiest for you to try with a 5s set-up, though there's no way you'd power that with ultrafire batteries. You'd almost be better with a 2s2p emitter configuration and an 8s AA eneloop nimh pack. You'd use the same 'poorman's multi-lux driver trick' I mentioned above to run the 2 series. Knock an 7135 of an SB 8s amc 7135 (2.8A) driver and you've have ~2.45A on high, which would be split in to ~1.2A by the parrallel emitters. You'll still need a dedicated heatsink (perhaps a flat one from sandwichshop) but you'd have nearly 1h run-time on max, which is OK.

LEDs:
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SST-P7
Parts for the D Maglite mod are readily available. Instructions are readily available.
How To Mod a Maglite P7 - 38 PICS
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238641
Elektro Lumens P7 2D 3C Maglite
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194716
You can use the Mag reflector with the cam cut off, a custom reflector or an aspheric lens
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The SST-50 is not more efficient. It just happens to be the 'latest LED'. It's advantage is you can focus it very tightly without the gaps in the dies showing up in the hotspot. Mainly a problem with aspheric lenses, I do not see the gaps in my 3C P7 with either the Mag reflector or an orange peel reflector I bought.
In a few months the 'latest LED' will be the Cree XM-L.
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The only way to mount 4*XR-E Q5 is in the head which means you need a custom heatsink and optics. Similar to this:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2250190&postcount=25
Sorry about only 3 LEDs but I can not find 4 LED versions with nice pictures quickly.

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Batteries:
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3C
You can direct drive the LED(s).
NiMH will give best output but alkalines can be used in an emergency at reduced output.
You can get a piece of plastic electrical conduit (pipe) as the spacer instead of the machined tube in the Elektro Lumens P7 2D 3C Maglite. Some trimming of the Mag tailcap spring may be necessary.
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1*18650
You can direct drive the LED(s).
You will need a spacer diameter wise and a dummy cell lengthwise.
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2*18650
You will need a buck regulator. Or direct drive 4 XREs in a 2 series 2 parallel configuration.
You will need a spacer diameter wise.
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Multi 16340
You will need to build or buy a battery carrier. A single 16340 will not drive a SSC-P7/MCE/SST-50/4*XRE safely. It will be difficult keeping your batteries balanced.

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EDIT
I doubt you can get 1000 lumens.
For a relatively simple mod like this the LED(s) will be ~700+ lumens.
The stock Mag optics are terrible about 65% transmission which drops the ~700+ lumens to ~455+ lumens.
A UCL lens would improve transmission by 9% which brings the lumens up to ~518+.
I do not know how much improvement the 3rd party reflectors will do.
Fenix lights have been tested to be ~81% transmission so if you find a reflector/lens combo of equivalent efficiency you will be up to ~567+ lumens.

bigchelis did a test of a 3C P7 Mag and got this:
3C Mag_________ P7 DD______3 NiMH AA Tenergy___676.2______1 sec
Assembled by bigchelis __________________________587.7______30 sec
_______________________________________________555.4______1 min
_______________________________________________522.3______2 min
_______________________________________________521.5______3 min

bigchelis also did tests of a EDC-P7 (direct drive 1*18650) and got this:
Electrolumens
EDC P7________P7 DD_________1 IMR 18650_______ 793.1______1 sec
______________________________________________ 613.8______30 sec
______________________________________________ 604.6______1 min
______________________________________________ 589.2______2 min
______________________________________________ 582.3______3 min

Electrolumens
EDC P7_________P7 DD________1 AW 2600mAh______731.5______1 sec
______________________________________________ 617.7______30 sec
_______________________________________________597.7______1 min
_______________________________________________584.4______2 min
_______________________________________________581.5______3 min

I do not think an SST-50 or 4*XRE-Q5 will do any better.

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For reference a 1st gen Magled is ~ 50 lumens and a 2nd gen Magled (rebel) is ~100 lumens.
You should get 4X the brightness of a 3AAA Cree.

My perspective:

If using a 2D Mag , my battery choice would be 3 x IMR26500 or 2 x Batteryspace 26650. Both fit with simple removal of anodising in tailcap and a small spring (shortened Mag C springs are convenient)

A good match for either battery choice above would be SST50 with a Der Wichtel 5A driver.

For multi LEDs I prefer a Mag C host as there is more room inside the head for heatsink and reflectors (approx 27mm vs 19mm height)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, there's a lot of options/combination's to consider.

I don't have a problem using a custom battery source. I was looking at the 1/2 D's on ebay that I could potentially use as well. The IMR batteries are pricey, but in the name of experimenting, I wouldn't mind trying it either.

i'd like the best bang for the buck mod, but I also don't mind spending a little more to get quality components.

But it looks like I need to get either a P7 or a sst-50. That would also require me to get one of the updated mags with the deeper reflector.

Thanks!

If you want to use up five of those XR-Es you have laying around, you can get one of these pentaflector modules with base and drive the LEDs in series with one of these boost drivers. You can run it from 6AAs or from two lithium batteries in series (LiFe or IMR/LiMn are better choices, but 18650 Li-Ion will do). You'd have to cut the tower from the Mag switch assembly and grind the threads off the top of the pentaflector to allow the Mag bezel to screw down all the way, but for <$12 in parts, you've got a fun project and a really cool 1000+ lumen torch. If your XRE stars are 16mm, you'll need to trim them to fit like this (don't mind the wiring). If they're larger, then you'll need to either remount the XREs onto 14mm stars (or trimmed 16mm stars)with a hotplate or heavily trim the existing large stars and then make new contacts on the face of the trimmed star by scratching the enamel off to expose parts of the trace routes. Oh, there's a way to wire that driver to bypass the modes too.

For a flashlight, I wouldn't recommend any NiMH that aren't LSD (low self discharge). The only case I could see using four of those 1/2D in would be when using a 7135 regulator based driver, in which case four that have rested and sagged still provide > 3.6V necessary. For example, using the pentaflector I mentioned above, if you could find the room for fit, you could wire each emitter to it's own 750mA or 1050mA AMC7135 based regulator and power all five regulators in parallel from 4 1/2D NiMH cells.

Trike said:

Hi, I've been lurking a while and trying to take in what I can. I have an older LED 2D Mag that I'd like to use as a host. I have 15 CW XRE Q5's on stars from another project that is available. I was thinking of using 4 of them for the mag. The sst-50 seems to be a popular choice as well, and i'm having a hard time deciding which route would operate better. Since I haven't picked a driver yet, I'm still undecided on power source/regulation. I have a bunch of ultrafire 18650's and 16340's that I could use. But i'm open to battery options.

I don't think cost will be factor, Since the only thing I have is the mag and xre's. The one thing that may sway my decision one way or the other is the head on the mag. I don't have the updated rebel luxeon version. It has the luxeon III driver instead and probably the standard incan head (non deep).

In order to help make a decision, can someone comment on the pro's/cons of going either a quad XRE or single SST-50? I'd like a good all around light and that has some decent throw to it as well. How possible is it to get 1000 lumens with either choice?

Thanks! Let me know if there's anything I can answer that will help.

Click to expand...

do this, sst90, driven to 5 amps, it will be brighter, and cooler than sst50 driven at 5 amps. you'll get 1000lm easy, (so DW told me), plus there is a possibility to upgrade to 9a dimmable driver once it comes out.
that is my next build, sure i'll loose many lm by not driving st90 to max, but even if you do mag body and heatsinks aren't capable of pulling the heat away fast enough to run sst90 on full for longer than few min, and DW drivers are not dimmable yet. (that is the driver i want to use) also at half load sst90 wont be nearly as hot as at full, but you wanna use rebel maglite host for its deep reflector,
for 2d host the best to use 2x26650, they should fit, with DW driver 5 amps at the led means less amps draw battery will see, imr 26650 are good for 10 amps, relatively not expensive, 10$ each