200 Lumen Surefires versus 170 Lumen HDS EDC Tactical

Hello all,

With the help of your fellow forum members, I have narrowed down my choices for a new pocket carry duty light to either the Surefire E2DL or the HDS EDC Tactical.

Have any of you compared these two lights side-by-side? How would the beams on these two compare? Would there be any appreciable difference between 200 lumens from the E2DL and 170 lumens from HDS (I do a lot of morning search warrants in dark apartments and I want as bright/disorienting light as possible)? Any pros or cons between the two? Any other pocket carry units I should look at?

Thanks,

AmicusCuriae

Hello again :wave:


I've never owned a SF E2DL so can't really give you any meaningful insights, and you already know my thoughts on the HDS Clicky . It does have a disorienting strobe if that's what you're looking for......and so does the Elzetta, depending on the switch you choose........

Well, output wise I doubt the total difference would be noticeable. Especially since the beam patterns are so different. The Surefire TIR optic beam is basically all hotspot with a bit of spill. While the RA beam is more like what you would expect from a typical flashlight. If it's anything like the Novatac beam it should be very versatile.

Durability wise, the RA might actually have the edge, both lights are about the same diameter I believe. However the lens on the RA is shock isolated using a series of o-rings and the bezel is either steel or titanium (optional I think).

The UI on the Surefire is very basic. Which is one thing it has going for it. While the UI on the RA is very versatile. So for example (if I remember right) you could click the RA on once, say on high. Then say you want to use the strobe function. Just hold down the tailcap (this could be set to anything really high, low, sos, etc, I belive there are 3 distinct modes to which you can set any power level or stobe etc.). If you need to shift down in brightness from high just double click. Even in low mode, if you press and hold the tailcap it will shift to strobe. If you hold down the tailcap from the off position the light will turn on high and turn off when you release the button.

For pocket carry, I'd go with the RA. I believe theres a bezel down clip for it as well. It's supposed to be much nicer than the one on the Novatac (I have this light, Like the RA's ugly cousin).

Man now I have to go dig out my Novatac. Might have to get an HDS as well.

I agree with RyanA.....except for this part:

RyanA said:

Durability wise, the Novatac might actually have the edge, both lights are about the same diameter I believe. However the lens on the RA is shock isolated using a series of o-rings and the bezel is either steel or titanium (optional I think).

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I would say that the HDS lights are in a different level to the Novatac. It is a newer and better design. It is specifically designed to be durable. That's why it has that large SS bezel, 3mm thick glass UCL sandwiched between O rings (Novatac uses polycarbonate, IIRC), springs on both positive terminals to protect the battery, potted electronics, more reliable switch, better threads, and better regulation and electronics, etc. etc. etc

p.s. HDS id HAIII coated (most of the Novatacs are only type 2 anodizing), is made in USA (some of the NT are made in China, e.g. Storm), and HDS has no-nonsense customer service.

p.p.s. the NT is only 120lumens. The base HDS Clicky is 120lumen and only $99. The only reason I can think of why someone would opt for the NT is because you can get a remote switch for them.

Belstaff1464 said:

I agree with RyanA.....except for this part:




I would say that the HDS lights are in a different level to the Novatac. It is a newer and better design. It is specifically designed to be durable. That's why it has that large SS bezel, 3mm thick glass UCL sandwiched between O rings (Novatac uses polycarbonate, IIRC), springs on both positive terminals to protect the battery, potted electronics, more reliable switch, better threads, and better regulation and electronics, etc. etc. etc

p.s. HDS id HAIII coated (most of the Novatacs are only type 2 anodizing), is made in USA (some of the NT are made in China, e.g. Storm), and HDS has no-nonsense customer service.

p.p.s. the NT is only 120lumens. The base HDS Clicky is 120lumen and only $99. The only reason I can think of why someone would opt for the NT is because you can get a remote switch for them.

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Sorry man, I was thinking HDS and wrote Novatac. I'm getting old, and weird.

RyanA said:

Sorry man, I was thinking HDS and wrote Novatac. I'm getting old, and weird.

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That's Ok :wave: We're all getting old and weird. Just wanted the OP to make an informed decision :twothumbs.

I have had both the e2dl and a HDS 170 tactical. And while they both are nice lights, they are really dirrerent. The e2dl is a thrower and needs a diffuser for close up work, the HDS has IMHO a better compromise between throw and spill for EDC. I have a diffuser (F04) for my HDS, but I dont really need it. Both ends at the e2dl are crenalezed, if thats important to you. The HDS uses only one CR123A while SF uses 2 batteries. Then of course with HDS you have 0.08 lumens if you want, or some of the other options.

I guess both puts out comparible amounts of light, but with very different beamshapes. The HDS wins, not because of lumens but because you can program it to your liking, for more info I refer to the clicky threads. :naughty:

My ex-girlfriend has a e2dl, and she loves it. :twothumbs

does this light give floody beam?

YourTime said:

does this light give floody beam?

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Which light are you referring to ?

Patrik said:

I guess both puts out comparible amounts of light, but with very different beamshapes.

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Hey Patrik,

I know it is difficult to quantify, but how much throw does the HDS EDC tactical give up to compared to the Surefire? Is the HDS tactical beam still concentrated enough that it would be useful for disorenting someone at a reasonable distance (50 - 100 feet)?

Thanks,

AmicusCuriae

Strobe is probably not going to be effective at anything but close range. Maybe 20 at the most.

Belstaff1464 said:

Which light are you referring to ?

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sorry,

HDS im talking about

Belstaff1464 said:

.... We're all getting old and weird....

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Are you implying we used to be young and normal ?

YourTime said:

sorry,

HDS im talking about

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Not really. I have a 140narrow.

The 140 can be had in a wide (Seoul P4 LED) or narrow option (Osram GD LED). They use the same reflector's (all models), but the P4 creates a wider, smoother beam of light than the Osram.

In my area, a well illuminated urban area, my 140n easily lights things up to about 100'. In the country, it's much further.

The narrows are not really floody, but they have a tighter, more intense hotspot than the wide's. Even the wide's are pretty throwy, though.

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The Surefire may very well appear much brighter than the HDS, because it is well focused. The actual difference in lumens (~30) is not actually very noticeable, if they were both focused the same, but, because the Surefire uses a TIR optic, it will basically have a tight, intense hotspot, and minimal spill.

I would personally say you should go with the Ra, because:
theoretically more versatile beam
more adjustable, "in the field" to changing conditions
Can program it to have strove, or a fourth output
>/= surefire's durability
uses fewer batteries, so you might save money
Designed to use Li-ion cells, with no problems, greater run time available with the 17670 battery tube

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What kind of distances do you need to see, and how brightly lit is the area in which you work?

YourTime said:

sorry,

HDS im talking about

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No, I wouldn't say any of the HDS lights are floody. More conventional or regular beam i.e. a strong hotspot with a very useful spill. That's one if the reasons why it's very versatile.

RyanA said:

Well, output wise I doubt the total difference would be noticeable. Especially since the beam patterns are so different. The Surefire TIR optic beam is basically all hotspot with a bit of spill. While the RA beam is more like what you would expect from a typical flashlight. If it's anything like the Novatac beam it should be very versatile. ....

Click to expand...

I can tell the difference between a 225 lumen TK10 and a 170 lumen Ra Clicky 170T.

Most here on CPF take the actual OTF output of the TK10 as ~190 lumens. For most people to see a difference we'd need 238 lumens on the TK10, using 140% as a rough guage (well, I suppose there is a possibility that my TK10 is an over-performer..)

Caveat: I'm known as a walking lightmeter, so this may not apply to the ordinary user.

AmicusCuriae said:

Hey Patrik,

I know it is difficult to quantify, but how much throw does the HDS EDC tactical give up to compared to the Surefire? Is the HDS tactical beam still concentrated enough that it would be useful for disorenting someone at a reasonable distance (50 - 100 feet)?

Thanks,

AmicusCuriae

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My 170T will throw 100 feet, to blind someone I think the the distance must be closed in. For the strobe function I dont know, some just dont get affected by it at all. The usefulness of the strobe is quite discussed. I would guess that it could buy you one second or two when used under ideal conditions (closeup, surprise, directly to ones vision, dim to dark setting).

Dont know if that was much to an answer really.

AmicusCuriae said:

Have any of you compared these two lights side-by-side? How would the beams on these two compare? Would there be any appreciable difference between 200 lumens from the E2DL and 170 lumens from HDS (I do a lot of morning search warrants in dark apartments and I want as bright/disorienting light as possible)? Any pros or cons between the two? Any other pocket carry units I should look at?

Click to expand...

I don't have an E2DL, but I have an LX2, which is quite similar, and also an HDS 170T

The LX2 (and I'm sure the E2DL) is noticeably brighter, and I can certainly spot things in the woods at the edge of my property slightly better with the LX2. (This isn't a huge difference - you can see it, no doubt about that, but it is NOT huge.) This is over a ~100-150 yard range, and I'm in the country where it's *dark* - there is no light whatsoever around me. (No streetlights, nothing, I'm fully dark adapted when I do this - sitting outside in my observatory with no lights at all for 3-4 hours.) This is likely in marked contrast to what you'll deal with (coming in from a lit street to a dark apartment with very poor dark adaptation).

In your situation, the E2DL might have a light edge - your eyes aren't likely to be very dark adapted, so the extra bit of light might help. However, the difference is NOT large, and I'm totally comfortable walking around my property with the HDS 170T - skunks, coyotes, etc aren't going to be sneaking up on me. (I'm sure you'll deal with less pleasant critters sometimes.)

The HDS is a very versatile light, much more so than the SF. The SF light is good at what it does, and that's it. You can likely get as much or more useful runtime from the HDS as the surfire, but it won't be nearly as bright. (You can throttle the HDS down, and it throttles itself down from the 170 lumen mode after 10 seconds.) If you NEED full brightness all the time with max runtime, I guess SF probably wins here. That said, the way HDS throttles down is *really* smart, and you probably don't need 200 lumens all the time. Even after the light steps down, I can easily see to the edge of my property.

The user interface difference between the lights is something to consider too. I really like the HDS, but it is somewhat "fiddly". You can make it do all kinds of stuff, and using it is pretty natural, but I'm not so sure that would be a feature under extremely stressful situations. (Although you could program it to just have 2 modes, just like the SF I believe.) It depends on you and how you use the light I guess. I'm not a LEO, so I just can't really judge the types of stressful situations you're in, and I have no experience with them, for which I'm quite grateful.

They are both excellent lights. I find I use the HDS more, but again, my application is way less critical than yours, and hey, it's newer.

The Surefire will likely outhrow the Clicky, but have less useful spill.
My HDS 170 is blindingly bright on max, and easily illuminates treetops around my house.

The narrow beam HDS 170 still has a very useful beam, spillwise. I was concerned about this a bit when I bought it, and relieved when I saw the beam in person.

chanjyj said:

I can tell the difference between a 225 lumen TK10 and a 170 lumen Ra Clicky 170T.

Most here on CPF take the actual OTF output of the TK10 as ~190 lumens. For most people to see a difference we'd need 238 lumens on the TK10, using 140% as a rough guage (well, I suppose there is a possibility that my TK10 is an over-performer..)

Caveat: I'm known as a walking lightmeter, so this may not apply to the ordinary user.

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I think this light difference is more due to the HUGE reflector difference, as opposed to actual light difference......which applies here also(except with one optic)