Question regarding Fenix lights

Hello all!
This is my first post as I'm just getting into led flashlights. I'm a regular on a lot of the knife forums so I'm familiar with the format.

Well I think the flashlight bug has bitten! Last week I bought a Fenix LD01 to carry at work. I fell in love with that little light and had to get a bigger one. By the end of last week I had already ordered a highly recommended, (from what I can gather) Fenix PD31. I got it in on Monday and was instantly impressed with its size and relative brightness. I got into knives real heavy, and quickly acquired many quality knives from SAKs to Sebenzas. I probably bought 60 in less than a year. I have a feeling the flashlight addiction will compare directly. We'll see where I'm at in a year!! :devil:

To get to the point, I was playing around with the LD01 and the PD31 at the same time, and noticed that the LD01 seemed to have a much whiter light. While the PD31 maybe a slight green tint. I have researched and not been able to find wide spread complaint about the hue of the PD31. (I didn't even know about hue two days ago!) I was under the impression these two lights used the same LED so I'm a bit confused.

Below is the best picture I could get comparing the two. Hopefully it shows what I'm getting at............

PD31 on the left........... and the LD01 on the right:



Thoughts are more than welcome, as I'd like to see if this is something normal, or if I should try and get the PD31 replaced. Etc, etc, etc.

Thanks in advance for the help!
I look forward to learning and spending on this bright new hobby!! :devil:

I'll let one of the experts explain the details, but I'll give you a few pointers. Also, welcome to the forums.

First: LEDs are not all made equal. Even if they're using the same technology, LEDs are sorted by their bins; basically this measures both output (in flux) as well as their color attributes (via the CRT). I've seen less variation in tints over the past six or seven years as the technology has advanced from the Luxeon I's (which were, IIRC, some of the first real high-output LEDs which were commercially available), but the standard LD01 uses the Cree XP-G R4, which is considered to be a 'warm white'. It has more of a yellow color that provides better color resolution outdoors, but tends to not to emit as much light as the cool-white R5 which the PD31 comes with.

Second: even within these ranges, there is some variation. You can get a really yellow R4, or a creamy-white R4.... just as you might get an R5 which tends to be more greenish even while others are more milk-white. That's what old-timers call the tint lottery; especially with companies like Fenix which don't always cherry-pick their emitters (and pay the premium required to get only LED's of that particular color), you'll sometimes get a very lovely tint of white along with a lot of output in your flashlight.... or you'll get something which looks like rotten urine green, a situation that happened more often with the cheap batches of Luxeon I's and Luxeon III's which Fenix used to use some years back.

While both of them use the Cree XP-G emitters... they're not using the same BIN of emitter. And even in that same bin, there are variations which can cause the color of light to change. As you've discovered here.

Now, if you're using the stainless steel version of the LD01, you've also got an R5 emitter in that head and were lucky enough to win the tint lottery on that LED.

what he said....

cree XP-G R5 bins are notorious for have green hues, the XPG S2 are even worst. some dont mind them, and some cant stand them. ive had my fair share, and moved on to neutral tinted lights. neutral tints which are in the range of about 4000k to 5200k temperature, usually have a yellowish hue to a sunlight tint. aka outdoor white.

then, i got a few lights using XP-G R4 neutral tints, and saw green in those tints. anyways, i prefer my lights with a warm tint now, somewhere in the range of 2700k to 3500k. the tints are more orangey, similar to an incandesant light, or most common light bulbs.

different emitters have different characteristics. cree XP-E, and XR-E seem to have much less chance of getting a green hue, if any.

with LED technology, neutral tinted LEDs are becoming more and more popular, now that we have a choice. i would suggest trying it out.

if the PD31 doesnt satisfy you, it can easily be sold on the marketplace. it seemed to be in limited supply.

welcome to CPF!

:welcome:
What's a real bummer is when you buy a $200+ light thinking it will be perfect only to find a pea green tint. It happens but as you read the forums here you'll learn ways to avoid getting them. Like mentioned hear already certain 'models' of LED's that come out seem to be more prone to bad tints - XP-G being one of the worse ones but not every XP-G is bad. Most vendors don't like checking or picking a good one for you either but once in a while you can find someone who will check the one you are buying to make sure it's not bad. Some people like bluer (cool) tints and others like warmer (yellow-orange) range tints but almost no one seems to like green (well maybe user GreenLED ).

And yes this will be as bad an addiction as knives

Dropping by to say :welcome:. Everything else is already said.

All my quality lights have a strange tint, and knock-offs are much worse. You either learn to live with it, or go for Neutral White next time. Sometimes a diffuser may help, if you prefer a softer beam. If you choose the NW path, be prepared to pay a bit more and settle with a few lumens less.

Welcome to CPF!:wave:

Cheers,

Tam

Where ever you buy it from ask them to check tint first...If they wont go somewhere else. I have both and love them.

Thanks for the information and the greetings! It sounds like NW might be what I'm after. I still really like the PD31. The green tint is really only noticeable when I turn the LD01 on next to it.

ScaryFatKidGT said:

I have both and love them.

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Have you noticed a green tint to your PD31?

There is some misinformation above. The R4, R5, S2 etc. has nothing to do with the led light color, but only designates the brightness of the led.
To specify color bin some other letters are added to the led name. When buying leds you can ask for a single color bin or a couple of color bins. The single color bin is more expensive and probably not even an option on the newest high output led (S2).

:welcome:

You already experienced the "tint lottery". I have no problem with a very slight greenish, which I prefer before a bluish. But too much greenish is bad.
Not all lights of the same model are 100% equal. The tint can vary, also the output, though very slightly. My latest Fenix lights are LD01 SS and LD10, both with R5 emitter. Both of them I perceive as greenish, but in this case LD01 is much more greenish.

eloreno said:

Thanks for the information and the greetings! It sounds like NW might be what I'm after. I still really like the PD31. The green tint is really only noticeable when I turn the LD01 on next to it. Have you noticed a green tint to your PD31?

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No I would say that my PD31 is slightly paler? leaning twords bluer/purpler (not green) than my Mag-Lite XL50 but only very slightly I just had to do a white wall test to tell. It does have 1 very noticable ring in the beam but I like it over all way better than the Quark Turbo X I got YELLOW YELLOW GREEN GREEN! ha.

Be careful with NW some companies go way yellow ok if you want like the TK20 I love mine it looks like an incan thats why I got it but if you want pure white you might want to research before you go buy the first NW light you see.

The tint lottery is one of the biggest reasons I primarly use incandescents. I've gotten the short end of the stick a few times with expensive lights, nasty green and angry blue tints isn't the best thing to see after spending hundreds of dollars.

ebow86 said:

The tint lottery is one of the biggest reasons I primarly use incandescents. I've gotten the short end of the stick a few times with expensive lights, nasty green and angry blue tints isn't the best thing to see after spending hundreds of dollars.

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Interesting - I looked at your list of lights, and there's not a single LED over 60 dollars.

Chicago X said:

Interesting - I looked at your list of lights, and there's not a single LED over 60 dollars.

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He may have meant "hundreds of dollars total".

Chicago X said:

Interesting - I looked at your list of lights, and there's not a single LED over 60 dollars.

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I'll go ahead and verify a few things

1.Just traded a malkoff M61W that I owned since Jan to another member a few weeks ago. Had it installed in a Surefire 6P, 220 lumens of some of the highest quality LED light you will ever see, drop retails for around $70 minus shipping

2. Currently own a Fenix TK10 that I paid retail for a few years ago, paid around $75 new, outputs 225 lumens

4. Currently own a Surefire 6P LED with P60L, a little dated, but paid retail of $95 dollars new a few years ago

5. Currently own a Fenix PD20+ R2, paid retail last year for around $65 US new,

6.Owned a Fenix TK30 this time last year, $140 LED outputting 630 lumens. Sold it

7. Used to own a 110 lumen Surefire E1B backup, sent it back, I'm pretty sure I paid around $140 new

I have to question what made you make such an ill advised statement absent of any logical facts. I guess one either did not pay very close attention to what lights I have listed, was misinformed of what the retail prices were on such flashlights, or did not consider the extreme possibility that I may have owned more expensive LED's in the past, but have either sold some of them or given them away. That list of lights that's in my signature are the lights that I currently own, that list doesn't show what I have owned in the past. What criteria did you use to establish that I didn't own a single LED over $60? As you can see in my post I have debunked that claim quite effectively.

ebow86 said:

BLAH BLAH BLAH

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So you paid far too much - your issue, not mine.

Recap:

1)You whine about getting the short end of the stick in the tint lottery on spendy lights.

2)When laughed at, you produce a list of exactly ONE more expensive light.

3)None of the lights, under or over $60, have been less than perfect.

4)Where's this short end of which you speak?

BTW, your little love notes (PMs) are keeping both me and the missus up, laughing at you. :thumbsup:

HKJ said:

There is some misinformation above. The R4, R5, S2 etc. has nothing to do with the led light color, but only designates the brightness of the led.
To specify color bin some other letters are added to the led name. When buying leds you can ask for a single color bin or a couple of color bins. The single color bin is more expensive and probably not even an option on the newest high output led (S2).

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I agree. 99% of the time only the flux bin is provided, not the tint bin. The flux bin has nothing to do with tint, only the efficiency of the emitter. From my understanding, manufacturers usually buy their leds in "kits" which contain multiple tint bins, so you have the tint lottery (it used to be A LOT WORSE from what I have read on CPF). It seems the kits get better as time goes on.

Is the tint lottery something that we will always face because of the nature of LED's? Or will we reach a point where it will be a non-issue?

ebow86 said:

Is the tint lottery something that we will always face because of the nature of LED's? Or will we reach a point where it will be a non-issue?

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It has gotten much better, as older members can attest to. IMO there will always be variations in the LED tints, it is the nature of how they are manufactured, think of the tints being on a bell curve. If you want a specific tint, you can get it, you just might have to pay a little more or find a manufacturer that cares about tints.

TyJo said:

It has gotten much better, as older members can attest to. IMO there will always be variations in the LED tints, it is the nature of how they are manufactured, think of the tints being on a bell curve. If you want a specific tint, you can get it, you just might have to pay a little more or find a manufacturer that cares about tints.

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Oh no doubt about it, it definitely is much better now than it was years ago. If one looks at a light nowadays that has a bad tint, just years ago one would jump for joy to get such a tint, yet today we might consider it bad today. Unfortunately, the tint lottery is still there, it's just not as big of a gamble now as it used to be Sure would be nice in the future if manufacturing would allow us to get consistent samples across so that manufacturers could guarantee a certain tint without variations.