[Pics]Surefire's QC and Quality declined

Surefire's quality seemed to declined after i bought my new 2012 LX2
Tho im using the LX2 instead of collecting, i expected a nice appearance of my light.
**Due to the resolution limitation and perception-difference between camera and real eyes, the pics might not re-create the scene of what human actually see**
Factory-tainted tailcap, no way to remove



O-ring exposed, see the shiny black thing?


Extra-heavily bolded engraving


Compairing E2D(Two curve, only 1 side engraved, previous logo, A11****) and LX2(2012, A6****) On the right hand side the words are definitely thicker, barely readable words seriously



Logo and pat. code, take a look at the number 8s, it was too bold that the upper hole of 8 almost not distinguishable


E2D, much better engravings, look at how sharp the words are


Tailcap, my bad for abusing the E2D, tho the words are fading, you can still see the differences between two tailcaps in terms of engravings


I sighed when i see my LX2 has such condition as it was brand new
On the store theres only two left, one with tainted TC, one even got a big ding on the body, >2mm
The store's policy is to pay before checking, so im just forced to take a "better" one :shakehead

The light has no problem in operation, it is just not so "appetizing" for my eye
Im also worried about the waterproofness, bezel o-ring exposed...
Surefire states it is waterproof up to 1m for 30min, im not so confident

Besides, their international warranty service isnt as generous as before
I wanted to send my E2DL back for TIR replacement, up til now theres no formal action, i just want a RMA code so that i could send it back, it only replied me once, asking for my info, then i never heard from them again.
One business week since the first email...

I have a task on the body, the clip seems worn and the thread does not have a nice finish.

Surefire loses its quality.

You are absolutely right.
As many know, I'm a Surefire fan.

The finish of their lights could be a lot better for the price premium.

The main argument is that their main clients, military and law enforcement don't buy based on aesthetics but rather performance.

I think you should make the best product you can. Put a near flawless unit in an operators hands and he'll likely buy more of your product. You'll sell more at MSRP and... Profit!

Surefire doesn't get it. They don't care that most of their lights are assembled with mismatched parts.

So your biggest complaint is that the lettering is a little too bold? Ill take it off your hands then: its not worth much but ill give you $3.50. And shipping I guess, dont wanna cause you trouble.

Does tue light turn on? If yes then its functioning correctly. Surefire has never cared much for making their anodizing match perfectly, though in my limited experience theyve gotten much, much better in this department in the recent few years.

So with the same tone, you'll happily buy a car with mismatch colors between panels? and you won't care too much if your door windows don't align properly? ugly seals showing where they are not supposed to, just so long as the car starts up when you turned on the ignition it will be all good for you then?

Bottom line is that Surefire has always market themself as a premium brand with robust and reliable product range so where the OP questioned why are the newer products have started to display a tell-tale sign of a company with declining and bad quality control of their production, and he have also attached photos to illustrate his point which I think he have a valid point to ask these questions! I'm a Surefire fan with close to a hundred of their lights and I do love their products (especially the older ones which are much better made to my eyes), and I'm disappointed with their newer product range and quality control too...and why is it ok for a premium company not care too much to match the color and fitting of their products when those hungry upstarts can easily do so, and at a much cheaper price point too.

I do agree that the newer Surefire have ugly-ier design, including the hilariously larger and bolder logos, declining QC standard (I remembered seeing a few of their lights with green tint and they seems to be happy about that) and not keeping up with the advancement of the latest LED technology, but then that's just me! I vote with my wallet and I've not the slightest interest in any of their newer lights!

It is difficult to make cast iron assertions that a company's QC is lower than it was before based on unrepresentative samples. What isn't in doubt is that in this instance the QC does seem to be lacking. Is this an endemic problem or a bad batch? Did the QC technician allow through a product which they shouldn't have? It does seems unfair and unjust to dis a company or their products based on this example. I would have found the comments about Surefire's standards slipping more justified 'if' having had an opportunity to inspect the light and it's apparent 'defects' they had an opportunity to answer the criticisms or put the situation right to the customers satisfaction.

John_Galt said:

So your biggest complaint is that the lettering is a little too bold? Ill take it off your hands then: its not worth much but ill give you $3.50. And shipping I guess, dont wanna cause you trouble.

Does tue light turn on? If yes then its functioning correctly. Surefire has never cared much for making their anodizing match perfectly, though in my limited experience theyve gotten much, much better in this department in the recent few years.

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Its not little too bold, its very bold
Surefire used to be the perfect combination of Art and Engineering hence its position in the flashlight world
Being an artifact instead of just a tool, also making them collectible
But now, tides turning

Theres other problem besides of anod and bold words
As i mentioned, on the one which i didnt buy, has a big ding on it, tho the anod didnt came off, theres an obvious "hole" on the body
For the exposed o-ring, do you think its usual? The gap is a mm wide, modder usually use extra o-ring to cover it .

dougie said:

It is difficult to make cast iron assertions that a company's QC is lower than it was before based on unrepresentative samples. What isn't in doubt is that in this instance the QC does seem to be lacking. Is this an endemic problem or a bad batch? Did the QC technician allow through a product which they shouldn't have? It does seems unfair and unjust to dis a company or their products based on this example. I would have found the comments about Surefire's standards slipping more justified 'if' having had an opportunity to inspect the light and it's apparent 'defects' they had an opportunity to answer the criticisms or put the situation right to the customers satisfaction.

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Ive sent them few emails
First two for asking about warranty of my E2DL
Third one about the lowered quality and my disappearance
And theres only one reply, asking me for my info to "arrange" a pick-up for my E2DL
Since that, they are silent:tired:

I know we expect emails to be answered and some of mine sent to Surefire in the past have been, some have not. However, if you have read the forums over the past few years you may of noticed that Surefire appears to be far better at replying to problems when you telephone them rather than when you email them. Failing that if I was as unhappy as you appear to be with the issues you are having with your particular light I'd be tempted to send a letter to them. If that fails then I'd send another letter to the CEO. In my experience you probably won't need to do that but those are the routes I'd be trying if I was you! You may feel differently!

dougie said:

I know we expect emails to be answered and some of mine sent to Surefire in the past have been, some have not. However, if you have read the forums over the past few years you may of noticed that Surefire appears to be far better at replying to problems when you telephone them rather than when you email them. Failing that if I was as unhappy as you appear to be with the issues you are having with your particular light I'd be tempted to send a letter to them. If that fails then I'd send another letter to the CEO. In my experience you probably won't need to do that but those are the routes I'd be trying if I was you! You may feel differently!

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When you are on the another side of Earth, where Surefire only operates on 8am-5pm PST
That would be my 12am-8am
Would be overlapping with the sleeping time
After a day of work, the only time being comfortable, not gonna waste it with calling
Few problems
-Not only English speakers purchase Surefire, i admit that i dont speak well
-Time zone difference
-Line busy?
-Toll?

I can appreciate the problem you have identified. However, if you can't make telephone call and emails are not the best way forward you are left with two choices. Either send a letter and wait to hear or sell your Surefire and buy something which gives you more pleasure and isn't making you unhappy.:shakehead

dougie said:

I can appreciate the problem you have identified. However, if you can't make telephone call and emails are not the best way forward you are left with two choices. Either send a letter and wait to hear or sell your Surefire and buy something which gives you more pleasure and isn't making you unhappy.:shakehead

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I wasnt interested in the new flute design but LX2 has been my dream light since its production
I thought i finally finished my wish, yes i did, i would give 70% satisfaction
Now, lets keep digging oldies, just got a tear drop E2 into my collection

Cosmetic nit-picking isn't representative of any companies overall quality.

And I don't think CPF needs another anti-SF/SF-bashing thread. I get it, SF is the whipping boy of CPF.

No one is bashing SF here. Just pointing out that they could be doing better.

Especially from a guy with a sig of There's more to a light than its output... I would expect you to understand.

Surefire maker of the world's finest illumination tools needs to step it up again. I'm sure they'll catch on once they hear about all of these concerns.

I quote:

The new models are no longer manufactured only in the U.S. but "assembled with U.S. parties and foreign parties." This results in variations in color between the parts of a lamp (eg L2 or Lumamax Aviator). The threads of the new models are also thicker and less finished visually. This does not necessarily affect the legendary reliability of the brand but purists might be disappointed.

ldp.com

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dano said:

And I don't think CPF needs another anti-SF/SF-bashing thread. I get it, SF is the whipping boy of CPF.

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No bashing here yet. The best tactic is to "attack the post, not the poster". That way we won't be having Rule 4 violations that inevitability have lead to the closure of many Surefire threads.

Bill

Dano,

We are users and we like the Surefire brand, the manufacturer must hear our concerns to improve the finish of his flashlights.

jamesmtl514 said:

You are absolutely right.
As many know, I'm a Surefire fan.

The finish of their lights could be a lot better for the price premium.

The main argument is that their main clients, military and law enforcement don't buy based on aesthetics but rather performance.

I think you should make the best product you can. Put a near flawless unit in an operators hands and he'll likely buy more of your product. You'll sell more at MSRP and... Profit!

Surefire doesn't get it. They don't care that most of their lights are assembled with mismatched parts.

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I've certainly expressed similar sentiments:

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:

One of my SF LX2's looks like it was put together out of spare parts. To my eye it looks tacky, and I know Surefire can do much better on the hard anodizing from other lights I own. The Surefire apologists will offer various explanations for the anodizing mismatch such as it adds character, HA is hard to do, SF's are illumination tools - the aesthetics don't matter, etc. I'm not saying they are wrong, just my views on the matter are different.

I use my calico LX2 as a beater light in one of the cars, it works fine, just not very nice to look at in my opinion.

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http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...LED-Question&p=3691413&viewfull=1#post3691413

jh333233 said:

Theres other problem besides of anod and bold words
As i mentioned, on the one which i didnt buy, has a big ding on it, tho the anod didnt came off, theres an obvious "hole" on the body
For the exposed o-ring, do you think its usual? The gap is a mm wide, modder usually use extra o-ring to cover it .

Click to expand...

Actually, this gap seems to be used to individually focus the TIR optics on lights like the LX2, E1B and late model L1. I'm not used to seeing an exposed o-ring though.

Did you buy the light at Supremeco in Mong Kok? Wonder if they will sell anything out of that PK shrine display case now that he's no longer with SF?

Surefire, like many other iconic U.S. brands (e.g. Pan Am, Smith Corona, Kodak, Polaroid) rode high for many years. They are in some decline from what we hear on CPF and elsewhere. The U.S. government gravy train is rapidly dwindling with recent military and federal cutbacks. Not that long ago some folks here seemed convinced that SF would never have to worry about their high prices or competition from overseas.

To me it seems that SF flashlight design has morphed into a nimble low cost division that quickly gets lights like the P2X Fury and its variants to market, and a high end group that fumbles indefinitely with all kinds of bells and whistles on lights that often are never produced.

I quote:

The new models are no longer manufactured only in the U.S. but "assembled with U.S. parties and foreign parties." This results in variations in color between the parts of a lamp (eg L2 or Lumamax Aviator). The threads of the new models are also thicker and less finished visually. This does not necessarily affect the legendary reliability of the brand but purists might be disappointed.



ldp.com

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This is news to me I thought surefire was 100% US made! 😒 Sigh* O well bound to happen I guess.

SF uses foreign electronics and emitters. The bodies are U.S. made, in batches, which accounts for the variences in HA color.