Cheaperthandirt price gouging in the midst of new gun laws.

Just for the heck of it I decided to go and see if there are ammunition shortages in the wake of the new and sweeping attempts at new gun laws, so I went to USA Midway first, and I looked at the most common caliber in rifles, .223 Rem/5.56x45mm. This also might disprove the idea of buying the most common things because they are more likely to be on the shelves(see: AA batteries vs. CR123).

They had over 200 separate ammo choices in .223 Rem, but not a single one was in stock! So I checked on the 5.56m X 45mm, and with 26 choices, there were none in stock. I looked at the less common .221 Fireball, which USA Midway had only like 12 ammo choices, and most were out f stock, but a few were in stock.

So I went over to Cheaper than Dirt(cheaperthandirt.com) and at first it seemed they had some 5.56mm/.223 in stock, but then I looked at the prices, and they want $29.99 for a 20 round box of Korean made PMC M855, 5.56 x 45mm, 62gr brass cased ammo, 20 round box. I bought about 7 boxes of this identical ammo about 1.5 years ago for $5.99 per box! But I also went to cheaperthandirt just 3-4 months ago and saw they had it for $6.49 per box.

But now they want $29.99 per box of 20! Thats 500% higher than 1 year ago, and over 400% higher than 3-4 months ago. Also, they carry the cheap, lower quality Russian made Brown Bear steel cased .223 ammo for $299.00 per case of 500. Thats up 300% too. Its questionable in quality. That stuff used to be $4.50 per box of 20.

I know for a fact that wholesale costs have not gone up, because USA Midway has sent out a pamphlet promising not to raise their costs when they get more ammo in, so obviously they arent going to sell for regular price if they will lose money on it big time!

Has anyone ever seen price gouging to that degree? I sure havent! Not 400-500% price increases. I sent cheaperthandirt an email letting them know they are disrespecting their customers, and it wont be forgotten when things get back to normal(For what good that will do!)

Why are people still surprised that CTD does this?

They did the exact same thing in 2008-09.
Boxes of WWB .380 was $50.

Just stop shopping there.

Technically it is not price gouging, as that can only be applied to necessary goods (water, food, gas) during times of emergency. What you're seeing here is a blatant attempt at raping shooters and firearm owners, but it is a free market. There are, unfortunately, people who will pay the crazy high prices CTD charges because they have no other options. I think it's a shame, but if nobody was buying CTD would have to drop their prices. Obviously, they have enough people buying...

This isn't the first time they've done it. Back during the 2008 election they were charging something like $60 for PMags.

I support the idea of a free market, but only when it favors me!

Isn't there an ammo shortage caused by federal buys and the election? Ammo is like gold right now, the price of the rare available ammo does not reflect normal prices.

Walmart is out, everybody is out.

Imon said:

Why are people still surprised that CTD does this?

They did the exact same thing in 2008-09.
Boxes of WWB .380 was $50.

Just stop shopping there.

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Why am I surprised? Because I didnt shop there til 2-3 years ago. So I didnt know about whatever happened 5 years ago. I wouldnt be so surprised if I knew they had a history of this. Does that make sense to you?

^Oh you dont have to worry about whether I'll shop at cheaperthandirt anymore, because I can assure you I wont!

But at the same time, I believe in pointing out this type of atrocious behavior so that these types of "bad actors" will suffer and hopefully learn a lesson, or if not, then hopefully they'll go out of business! If I treat my clients badly, they will fire me...

Also lets nip this falsehood in the bud: There is no legitimate, moral justification for ripping off your customers when in fact your wholesale prices have NOT increased dramatically. Free market is one thing, price gouging is another. Most companies DONT do this....

HighlanderNorth said:

Why am I surprised? Because I didnt shop there til 2-3 years ago. So I didnt know about whatever happened 5 years ago. I wouldnt be so surprised if I knew they had a history of this. Does that make sense to you?
...

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Ammo was scare throughout 2009 as well - at least where I lived.
In the summer of 2008 you could easily find a cheap 50 rd box of 9mm for $7 but the next summer it was $35 for a box of Blazer 9mm at CTD.

My impression was that CTD had a pretty crummy reputation among gun owners because of what they did in 2008-09 and I thought that reputation would stick but I suppose people either forgave or forgot.
Call me cynical but I doubt that this will stick too when the frenzy blows over.

Imon said:

Ammo was scare throughout 2009 as well - at least where I lived.
In the summer of 2008 you could easily find a cheap 50 rd box of 9mm for $7 but the next summer it was $35 for a box of Blazer 9mm at CTD.

My impression was that CTD had a pretty crummy reputation among gun owners because of what they did in 2008-09 and I thought that reputation would stick but I suppose people either forgave or forgot.
Call me cynical but I doubt that this will stick too when the frenzy blows over.

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IF the frenzy blows over, and hopefully it will, but it isnt cooling down yet....

HighlanderNorth said:

IF the frenzy blows over, and hopefully it will, but it isnt cooling down yet....

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Be patient, the ammo shortage lasted for more than a year, and in the case of .380, almost two years last time around.

I believe this ammo shortage hasn't even gone 6 months so there's still half a year to go...

Every "frenzy" seems to catch me with my pants down.

I only have a few hundred rounds per gun, and will have to forego recreational shooting until the market cools down and prices drop.

My memory is that Cheaper than dirt stepped in it back in December when they suspended gun sales online, their image has been badly damaged among their customers.

HighlanderNorth said:

Also, they carry the cheap, lower quality Russian made Brown Bear steel cased .223

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I've dropped several deers with one shot each with brown bear ammo. it's a little dirty, but hey, your supposed to clean after every shooting session anyway. Never had a jam or dud in over 1000 rounds from brown bear either.

ammo on store shelves is VERY hard to find around here. a box of thunderbolts .22lr's are 10 bucks now! they used to be anywhere from 1.50-3.00 dollars.

braddy said:

My memory is that Cheaper than dirt stepped in it back in December when they suspended gun sales online, their image has been badly damaged among their customers.

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i know A LOT of people was upset because of that. I've only shopped at CTD once or twice (gas mask one order, can't remember what the other item was, i think it was a knife) and it was so slow to mail. took them almost 2 weeks just to get the item in the mail, then another week to get here.

I hate to see these high prices and no stock but that's how it is right now. I've bascially scratched this hobby (target practice) off my list years ago. I used to buy quality .223 bulk from Cabelas - $54.99 for 300 rounds plus the free metal surplus can for every 300rds. The price soon went up to something like $125.00 for 300 rounds and a plastic box. I stopped checking after that (over a year ago). I don't want to know what it is now.

Its supply and demand.

Imagine you can't GET more ammo to SELL....your suppliers say there's none left.

That means that what you have in stock IS IT.

If no one else has any, yours is now worth more....because of normal supply and demand relationships to price.



Lets say you had a XYZ custom flashlight...and it was only say 1 of 12 made in the world. Could you sell it for more than if it were not in demand as a collectible?

If you paid $100 for it, new, but people were willing to pay $1,000 for it used...would you insist they only pay you $80 to reflect that you bought it for $100 new, and its depreciated due to being used?

Or, would you sell to the highest bidder?


MOST people would sell to the highest bidder...its a normal scenario.


Now, if the same XYZ light was not rare, say 100's of thousands were sold, and there were so many for sale that you were in COMPETITION with the others...You might ask $100, and get no bites...and a price war to get rid of it might be more likely...and it might go for a measly $50 or so....again, due to supply and demand.


If you believe in capitalism, not socialism, etc...then you typically want profit, and not to share the wealth. If you know Joe doesn't have a flashlight, you'd GIVE him half of your collection...so that you are equal, etc....if you are more socialistic.


So if a dealer has only what's on the shelf...and he knows that when that's gone, he's done...sure, he will get as much for it as possible.


The repercussions in terms of his customer base feeling raped and holding it against him SHOULD be a factor in considering how bad to rape them, etc....as that's part of doing business. In real life, a place like "Cheaper than Dirt" is serving customer demographics who shop by price...and, lets say this all blows over, and you can once again buy all the ammo you want, and the price becomes competitive again...

WILL this demographic pay MORE for ammo to spite the last guy who HAD ANY, and charged a premium for it?


Someone at the seller's place needs to do the calculus to see how many lost customer's and their associated profit margins later, would offset the profits made by maximizing profits now.


Every one KNOWS that buying stuff at Walmart brings us one step closer to our grand kids needing to learn Mandarin, etc...but, people shop there anyway, because its cheaper. So, not much in the way of ammo sales repercussions for Walmart...they DIDN'T raise prices, they just ran out like everyone else....but, you KNOW what the true cost is...and, go there any way.

it is a free market

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It sure is, and a way better choice than the other options (fascism, communism, etc.).

CTD has done this before, is doing it now, and will do it again. They are also the least expensive most of the time, between chrisis'. We're all free to not pay their inflated prices, I sure wouldn't, but I won't hesitate to buy something from them when prices fall back to normal, if they have what I want and the price is right.

Why someone would, right now for the first time in their life, decide that they just won't survive if they don't have a black rifle and a pile of 30 round magazines, after somehow getting by for all of these years without one, is beyond my understanding.

MatthewSB said:

It sure is, and a way better choice than the other options (fascism, communism, etc.).

CTD has done this before, is doing it now, and will do it again. They are also the least expensive most of the time, between chrisis'. We're all free to not pay their inflated prices, I sure wouldn't, but I won't hesitate to buy something from them when prices fall back to normal, if they have what I want and the price is right.

Why someone would, right now for the first time in their life, decide that they just won't survive if they don't have a black rifle and a pile of 30 round magazines, after somehow getting by for all of these years without one, is beyond my understanding.

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Its not about living in the present...its projecting the future.

Its like a 6 year old telling you, with an earnest intent and heart felt self knowledge, that he will NEVER need to know math, and that its a complete waste of time.

Maybe he WON'T need math, but, he might...and we know, because our lives were longer, and we saw more, that we see math as more useful than WE thought it was when WE were 6.



It like the constitution.

There are amendments that grant us the right to gather, to free speech, to freedom of the press, and to bear arms.

These were put there so we could revolt if the government got so bad that we needed to overthrow it.

The British would not allow us to gather and potentially discuss overthrowing the government, to speak or to publish thoughts that might involve overthrow of the government, and to take away weapons that could be used in a revolt.


If we were to say, OK, we are revoking the right to gather, the right to free speech and the right to freedom of the press, because hey, its not like we're going to overthrow the government, right?

Why do we need the rights to speak freely about it if we're not going to do it?


Some people would get their hackles up...and be concerned that this is the same direction several dictatorships etc, went in...but, as the government we have today may not be perfect, I think we have the best in the world any way...and I currently have zero plans to plot a rebellion to over throw it.

Do I worry that ONE DAY, things MIGHT get so bad we might need to have a rebellion? Not in my life time I assume, but, we'd be like that 6 year old KNOWING that he will never need math....if we were naive enough to think our government could never befall the fate of other, much older governments...even if its 500 years from now.


If we say, sure, I don't see the need for math, now....and don't learn it...and 500 years from now am faced with a scenario that math would have been quite handy...I am screwed, as I gave math up assuming I'd never need it.


Its the same for our basic rights...just because I don't foresee a rebellion in any realistic time frame today, I can project my inner 6 year old and conclude it would be short sighted to assume that whatever is happening today, will be the case 500 years from now.


Sooooo, laws loom that essentially reduce the right to bear arms to the right to shoot ducks...and, a lot of people look ahead, and say, "uh oh....if I don't get the guns/ammo now, I may NEVER HAVE A CHANCE AGAIN".


So, a mass buy-up commences as people rush to get what they fear is is their last chance....and empty the shelves.

Its not because they got along w/o the stuff and then suddenly think they need it...its because they fear that if they ever DO need it, they will no longer be able to get it.


As projected in "Animal Farm", once you start editing the constitution, and say, well, you don't plan on revolting, so you don't need the rights that allow revolt...its a slippery slope.

Eventually, you are rendered less and less empowered...one small step at a time, so each individual shackle is light, and you can deal with it...but, by the time your rights have been reduced to what allows to you do only what the government allows...its too late, and 500 years later, you curse your ancestors' short sightedness....but its too late, they sold the farm out from under you.

I don't need a F15 or an M60, but, my great great great great....grand kids might. I don't need to BUY them, I just want the RIGHT to be preserved.

It like the constitution.

There are amendments that grant us the right to gather, to free speech, to freedom of the press, and to bear arms.

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I know plenty about the Constitution, and more than most about productive political activism.

My point is that anyone who waited until now to buy a black gun is a victim of nothing but their own apathy, lack of planning, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, or whatever else caused them to not look around and learn lessons in '08 or from the 10 year assault weapon ban and plan accordingly. They've had 3 years of mind blowing availability to buy whatever they wanted at record low prices, and 4 years before that between 2004 (AWB Sunset) and 2008 (Obama election).

MatthewSB said:

I know plenty about the Constitution, and more than most about productive political activism.

My point is that anyone who waited until now to buy a black gun is a victim of nothing but their own apathy, lack of planning, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, or whatever else caused them to not look around and learn lessons in '08 or from the 10 year assault weapon ban and plan accordingly. They've had 3 years of mind blowing availability to buy whatever they wanted at record low prices, and 4 years before that between 2004 (AWB Sunset) and 2008 (Obama election).

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LOL

I'm not saying you didn't know about the constitution...I'm saying that a LOT of people, especially given the economy, had not bought a lot of what they might have normally, because they didn't think waiting mattered....and then they see it might matter a LOT, and they run out to get the stuff before its all gone, and no more will ever be available again.

The record low prices were reflective of an economy that could not afford even the low prices.

MatthewSB said:

My point is that anyone who waited until now to buy a black gun is a victim of nothing but their own apathy, lack of planning, stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, or whatever else caused them to not look around and learn lessons in '08 or from the 10 year assault weapon ban and plan accordingly. They've had 3 years of mind blowing availability to buy whatever they wanted at record low prices, and 4 years before that between 2004 (AWB Sunset) and 2008 (Obama election).

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That's all good and well if you live in a place where you're actually allowed to own firearms. I would have loved to have stocked up on guns and ammo when the prices where low, but my local laws forbid it. I can only hope eventually we'll see a Supreme Court case where the constitutionality of things such as bans on large capacity magazines and very restrictive local laws against firearm ownership is decided once and for all.

That said, I'm sure this recent period of high prices/unavailability will pass.

TEEJ said:

The record low prices were reflective of an economy that could not afford even the low prices.

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Very true. If people have to decide between food and ammo, most will choose food.