Need help! Bridgelux BXRA-c2002 Array (2200 lumin) Need help with Driver!

Danyboy · Jun 13, 2015

Hi,
I have LED Low voltage Techlight tree fixtures with Constant Current LED Drivers that recently got struck by lightning! blew all my LED drivers and some of the LED chips in the fixtures! I purchased new LED chips to re-solder into the light fixtures. They are BRIDGELUX BXRA-C2002 2200 lumins. Here are the specs from the bridgelux spec page > Maximum DC Forward Current (mA) = 2,500 / Minimum DC Forward Current (mA) = 750 / Forward Voltage was like 16.5 at 1500 mA (or) 15.6 at 1050 mA.....I purchased the Drivers from "Mean Well" they are LPC-35-1050 / Input 100-240vac / 1.1Amp / 50-60Hz / Output + 30v / 1050mA max. I hooked up one of the new LED's to the new transformer and all was well! But after roughly an hour I noticed the fixture was pretty hot! And I do not know if this is normal as I have just basic knowledge of these systems. The system was originally installed by a low voltage landscaper guy. He ran one Driver per fixture. I did spend several days researching the LED's and Drivers but started to get confused by the wattage? ( Hoping I did not purchase the wrong Drivers!!) On the LPC-35-1050 the 35 stands for 35 watts, but the Bridgelux LED specs say nothing about wattage? (that I seen) They do make an LPC-20-750 that produces 20 watts. But the original drivers where 1050 mA which is why I chose the LPC-35-1050 but I did not take into count the wattage difference of the two. I did pull out my voltage tester and the DC output side was reading around 14.6-14.7 (If I had it on the right setting) I just do not want to burn these new LED's I bought up...I had a misc driver I hooked up to the fixture ( WH-L241-700 / PRI: 120Va.c. 300mA., 60hz. / SEC: Max. 42vd.c., 700mA) and it ran much cooler, but is less DC output than the bridgelux led calls for according to the spec sheet at bridgelux site ( Minimum DC Forward is 750mA.....Hopefully one of you guys can help me out here? Many thanks in advance for any help!!

WeLight · Jun 13, 2015

Danyboy said:
Hi,
I have LED Low voltage Techlight tree fixtures with Constant Current LED Drivers that recently got struck by lightning! blew all my LED drivers and some of the LED chips in the fixtures! I purchased new LED chips to re-solder into the light fixtures. They are BRIDGELUX BXRA-C2002 2200 lumins. Here are the specs from the bridgelux spec page > Maximum DC Forward Current (mA) = 2,500 / Minimum DC Forward Current (mA) = 750 / Forward Voltage was like 16.5 at 1500 mA (or) 15.6 at 1050 mA.....I purchased the Drivers from "Mean Well" they are LPC-35-1050 / Input 100-240vac / 1.1Amp / 50-60Hz / Output + 30v / 1050mA max. I hooked up one of the new LED's to the new transformer and all was well! But after roughly an hour I noticed the fixture was pretty hot! And I do not know if this is normal as I have just basic knowledge of these systems. The system was originally installed by a low voltage landscaper guy. He ran one Driver per fixture. I did spend several days researching the LED's and Drivers but started to get confused by the wattage? ( Hoping I did not purchase the wrong Drivers!!) On the LPC-35-1050 the 35 stands for 35 watts, but the Bridgelux LED specs say nothing about wattage? (that I seen) They do make an LPC-20-750 that produces 20 watts. But the original drivers where 1050 mA which is why I chose the LPC-35-1050 but I did not take into count the wattage difference of the two. I did pull out my voltage tester and the DC output side was reading around 14.6-14.7 (If I had it on the right setting) I just do not want to burn these new LED's I bought up...I had a misc driver I hooked up to the fixture ( WH-L241-700 / PRI: 120Va.c. 300mA., 60hz. / SEC: Max. 42vd.c., 700mA) and it ran much cooler, but is less DC output than the bridgelux led calls for according to the spec sheet at bridgelux site ( Minimum DC Forward is 750mA.....Hopefully one of you guys can help me out here? Many thanks in advance for any help!!

Calculation is P=VxI ie watts =16.5V X1.5 amp =24.75 watts, I would recommend a programmable driver or at least a driver you can tweak, LPC drivers are fixed

Danyboy · Jun 13, 2015

Thank you for the reply. I guess the part I'm confused about is the fact the lighting system ran for 7 years with the old fixed drivers with no issues! ( until the lightning strike) Would the fixed 35 watt LPC driver burn them up? (driver and/or LED?) And what would happen if I ran the LPC-20-750 drivers (20 watt) with these Bridgelux BXRA LED's? Is it better to overpower an LED or under-power them with a driver. I guess my question is what would happen if I ran the LPC-35-1050 driver with these LED's? in turn what would happen if I ran the LPC-20-750 driver with them? (other than less light output with the 750 mA vrs 1050 mA driver.) Does less mA = less heat? or is it the watts that make them run hotter/cooler? Sorry if my questions are dumb. I just lack the understanding!! Really hate to send all 18 of these LPC drivers back! ( got them for $18.00 ea.) But I will if they will not work. Also, When you say "Driver you can tweak" is that a driver with adjustable wattage output? or would the "Tweak" be something I would have to do to it? :sick2: Can you suggest a link or site to purchase a driver to work with them? Thanks again for the help!!

WeLight · Jun 15, 2015

Some drivers like the ELN from Meanwell have on board potentiometer that you can adjust. Yes more ma is more watts is more heat, it is not necessarily a bad thing providing you have heatsinking that can deal with it, if you dont then the reverse applies

Danyboy · Jun 15, 2015

Perfect! I think I get it now!! The tree lighting fixtures are in fact made with built in Heatsinks ( Aluminum Cooling fins, etc.) so I think Im good! I also had someone else tell me these LPC drivers would work. I also forgot to mention that I have about 250 ft. of line between the Driver and the light fixtures so I might lose some mA's traveling threw that much line before it even gets to the fixtures! ( I think anyway?) Thanks again for your help (WeLight) and your reply's back!!! Now I just have 18 Bridgelux chips to solder in all these fixtures!! guess I better get busy. :duh2:

WeLight · Jun 15, 2015

ouch, 250 feet could be an issue, at 90 metres approx, you going to lose anywhere between 2-5 volts and you would need something like 3-4mmsq cable. Grab an electronics app for IOS or Android it will have a voltage drop calc in there you can use

FRITZHID · Jun 16, 2015

Why such distance between driver & LED?

Danyboy · Jun 16, 2015

Hey guys, There is that much distance between the two because the driver enclosures are all mounted to the rock wall face of the house (next to 120 power source) and the big oak trees that the lights are in are all scattered around the property of my adjoining lots. So 250ft is probably the farthest away, closest being approximately 100ft away. The cable is pretty thick! probably 2-3 times thicker than a lamp cord ( Im guessing around a 10-12 gauge stranded low voltage wire.)
I will look up that app your talking about and see what I can find out.
Thanks for the heads up!!

Danyboy · Jun 16, 2015

Found the chart! Here is what it said ( If I entered correct values)
1 conductors per phase utilizing a #10 Copper conductor will limit the voltage drop to 2.89% or less when supplying 1.1 amps for 150 feet on a 12 volt system.
A maximum distance of 94.252 feet will limit the voltage drop to 3% or less with a #12 Copper conductor delivering 1.1 amps on a 12 volt system
Here are the specs on my techlight fixtures original OEM Bridgelux LED chip! "Fixture operates at 120V input voltage. Nominal opencircuit current .19 amps. A 22 watt LED source provides approximately 1800Lumens of light".
I'm installing the Bridgelux C-2002 led chips with 2200 Lumens of light. I got the idea to do this because Techlight also sells the same size fixture but with a more powerful LED chip = Nominal opencircuit current .30 amps. A 33 watt LED source provides approximately 2700Lumens of light.
But like I said, I'm definitely a novice at this, just wanted to save a bunch of money by repairing these myself...Guy quoted me nearly $5,000.00 to replace the whole system! because he told me the fixture bulbs were non replaceable! and I would have to buy new tree light fixtures at the tune of $230.00 ea. But come to find out they are! ( I got the Bridgelux LED's for $12.00ea. And the transformers for $18.00 For a total of around $600.00 for the 18 fixtures. But I have had only around a week to educate myself on the subject!! And come to find out there is not just a whole lot of info on matching up a driver with LED! Lots of info on Drivers, and lots of info on LED chips, but not any on compatibility of the 2 together. Sooo thats why this site and you guys have been great. glad you let me pick your brain a little!!
Thanks again for the help!!

WeLight · Jun 18, 2015

yes I suspected you would need a lot of copper in the wire, but looks doable

lucca brassi · Jun 19, 2015

In the wires to the LEDs you have hidden i mpedance . As i understand length of cable is 28,72 m * 2 =57,44 m . Formula is here calculator

Current in wires is probably not clean DC but PWM DCand from that frequency depends inductive load . That power looses are probably much bigger as you calculated. Driver gives you frequency between 200 kHz up to 2 Mhz depends on driver spec .

Because of nature of inductive loads electric current is ahead of the voltage and you need some electric compensation or in other words ''power factor correction '' that usually mean adding capacitors to the grid .

To avoid all that heavy math use driver called '' linear driver '' or ''linear power supply'' which produce current without noise and freq , but you have still pure resistance drop 3% as you have calculated

That in few short words ;-)) and that is reason why are wires between led and driver short as possible look tables on page 5

DIWdiver · Jun 19, 2015

Based on what you've posted, I think you are good to go!

If the fixture can support a 33W LED and you are only putting half that into your LED (Vf=15.6V at 1050 mA = 16.38W), the heat issue should be fine. It's normal for them to get warm, but if you can't hold your hand on the outside, it's probably too warm.

What you bought are constant current drivers, with no adjustability or modes, so there will be no PWM involved. There will be high frequency ripple, but this is there because they can't completely get rid of it, not because they want it there (it's a byproduct of the regulator design). The inductance of your long cables will serve to improve the filtering of this noise, so you should not consider it a bad thing. The advice from the Xitanium driver data sheet is not relevant in your case.

As far as losses, you don't really care what they are. Your supply attempts to put out 1050 mA no matter what the load is. It does this by automatically and continuously adjusting the output voltage to keep the current at 1050 mA for whatever load you give it. It can adjust the voltage from 9V to 30V in order to do this. Since your LED is around 16V, you have a lot of extra voltage available to compensate for drop in the cable. If you were to lose 4V in the cable, you would need 20V at the power supply to keep the current at 1050 mA (16V at the LED and 4V in the cable). Thus the LED power would still be 16W, and the power supply would be taking it easy, not working anywhere near as hard as it can. If you were to lose 8V in the cable, you would still have 1050 mA, still 16V at the LED, but now 24V at the power supply. It would be working a little harder, but everyone would still be very happy.

So with this setup, you really don't need so much copper in the cable. But since it's already there, there's no reason to change it.

Danyboy · Jun 20, 2015

Hello again fellow Candlepowermen,
All has been well with the system!! They have been doing GREAT! And to DIWdriver, Thank you for your well explained statements above. that even I was able to understand. The fixtures did get warm but I could hold on to them without having to remove my hand (warm but not hot) They have been doing great and are even brighter than they used to be with the other LED chips and drivers. I'm very happy with the outcome! And even happier with the cost savings!!! Not to mention everything I have learned about LED's and drivers...I hope this might help someone else with similar issues on this type of setup and/or system! Now, I'm ready to research and experiment building one of the brightest flashlights known to man. It might chew threw some battery's though.
Thanks again guys for all your advice and knowledge and taking the time to respond & help me out with this!!

Need help! Bridgelux BXRA-c2002 Array (2200 lumin) Need help with Driver!

Danyboy

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WeLight

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