Philips X-treme Ultinon LED car lamp 12953BWX2 Headlight H4

http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/...on&mid=Link_ProductInformation&scy=AU&slg=ENG

It would seem that Philips has designed an LED bulb that is a direct replacement for halogen type headlights. I'm sure these are not legal in the states.

How do you feel about this product?

One claim Philips makes in their product brochure:

"...Philips patented SafeBeam optical design brings maximum visibility with a beam pattern that does not glare other road users. Similar or better beam pattern than standard halogen lamp, ECE beam pattern compliant*. * There is no ECE regulation existing for LED bulbs. ECE beam pattern compliance is tested on several commonly used luminaires where the LED bulb beam pattern matches the ECE approved halogen beam pattern…"

http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/1/12953bwx2/12953bwx2_pss_engau.pdf

I've had some test bench and night-driving time with the Philips H4 retrofit bulb in a selection of various headlamps. It's not a universal fits-in-all/works-in-all drop-in, but it works surprisingly well in some headlamps and is definitely the best product of its type for the time being. I can't say much more right now. Pretty much everything in this thread applies.

Any opinion as to whether these might be acceptable in Cibie 200MM/ 6054?

What more can you say about them?

wrcsixeight said:

Any opinion as to whether these might be acceptable in Cibie 200MM/ 6054?

What more can you say about them?

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Simple answer...JW Speaker

Honestly, this is a lamp that I thought I'd ever see from a top tier manufacturer. If it can become road legal here in the US, I'd consider it. But for Philips to get my money, they'll have to lower the CCT to at least 4000K.

Instead of using the LED emitters as a direct source of light, I wonder if they'll eventually try utilizing an optic fiber or very thin light guide to emulate the filament thus allowing the light to emit in all directions.

jaycee88 said:

Instead of using the LED emitters as a direct source of light, I wonder if they'll eventually try utilizing an optic fiber or very thin light guide to emulate the filament thus allowing the light to emit in all directions.

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This was something I'd imagined back in 2013; if I came up with it surely someone at Philips has tried that approach and found it lacking. It still seems like it could be viable, at least for the lower wattage bulbs, but there're still other packaging constraints to be met with any of those miniature bulbs to use such an approach.

jaycee88 said:

Instead of using the LED emitters as a direct source of light, I wonder if they'll eventually try utilizing an optic fiber or very thin light guide to emulate the filament thus allowing the light to emit in all directions.

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Osram showed progress in that exact direction for signal bulb retrofits in 2013, but so far as I know they haven't commercialized it.

A google search will show that there are threads in some other forums where they have tested and attached photos of the bulb in question. General impression seems to be that Philips has really managed to keep the glare factor down and the bulb's light beam pattern resembles the halogen bulb in H4 reflector. Looking at the photos the reach seems to be the same as the halogen bulb, but the width and the intensity on the road seems to be much higher compared to the halogen H4, and much whiter. Whether the transport and road safety authority of the country in question is going to accept these bulbs during MOT is a different question.

raj55 said:

and much whiter.

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White light is white. One light source producing white light does not produce whiter light than any other light source producing white light. It's an absolute; light is either white or it is not white.

raj55 said:

A google search will show that there are threads in some other forums where they have tested and attached photos of the bulb in question.

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Photos are (still) useless, and I haven't seen any testing -- have you? That would be photometric data from headlamps equipped with this retrofit bulbs. "Yeah, it was easy to install and it looks great and there's still a cutoff" does not count as testing.

General impression seems to be that Philips has really managed to keep the glare factor down

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...in other words, "Yeah it looks great". Useless.

and the bulb's light beam pattern resembles the halogen bulb in H4 reflector

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But it doesn't. Not in many-or-most H4 headlamps. Not when scrutinized in a way that actually means something.

Looking at the photos the reach seems to be the same as the halogen bulb

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Looking at photos is still useless.

and much whiter

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No.

I was mostly referring to other people's opinion from that thread (except for the personal opinion on the photographs that I saw).
So what do you all think is going to be the outcome of those Philips LED H4 bulbs? Is it something that Philips is going to withdraw because no authority is going to legalise it? Is it irresponsible of Philips to market that bulb for halogen reflectors? What if all the big and reputed manufacturers of car bulbs start bringing out similar LED bulbs for halogen reflectors? Is that likely to force a change in the attitude/practice of legalising bodies of each country or union (as in EU)? I live in a country where traffic and safety regulations are very strict and I am personally very happy with my Philips extreme vision bulbs, so i'll be just watching the development.

raj55 said:

I live in a country where traffic and safety regulations are very strict and I am personally very happy with my Philips extreme vision bulbs, so i'll be just watching the development.

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Out of curiosity, which country do you live in, and does law enforcement there truly enforce the safety regulations?

raj55 said:

So what do you all think is going to be the outcome of those Philips LED H4 bulbs?

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I think it's the second in a product line Philips will probably keep expanding and developing.

Is it something that Philips is going to withdraw because no authority is going to legalise it?

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No, because there are many markets that are unregulated, or effectively unregulated, or regulated but unenforced.

Is it irresponsible of Philips to market that bulb for halogen reflectors?

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Depends what angle you look at it from. If it makes money for Philips, and it certainly will, then they are exercising their corporate responsibility to their shareholders. But that's probably not what you meant. To answer the question the way you probably meant it: Yes, it kind of is, even if they're only officially marketing it in the unregulated markets (which is a meaningless distinction, because of the internet). This is a product that directly fits in safety-regulated vehicles and renders them noncompliant with the applicable safety standards...not just "on paper", in practice this bulb makes a fair number of headlamps produce inappropriate light distributions. BUT, the same things can be said about high-power halogen bulbs (100w H1 and H3, 100/90w and 130/100w H4, etc) and Philips has been selling those for 40-50 years now, and so have all their competitors.

What if all the big and reputed manufacturers of car bulbs start bringing out similar LED bulbs for halogen reflectors?

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One hopes they'd get better to the point where a true universal drop-in replacement would eventually come forth, and then it would be a pretty easy path to legality. Even if no other legit companies come out with an LED H4, it'll be interesting to see how the Philips product evolves.

I am personally very happy with my Philips extreme vision bulbs

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That's what went back into my car after I tried out the Philips LEDs.

jaycee88 said:

Out of curiosity, which country do you live in, and does law enforcement there truly enforce the safety regulations?

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Sweden

raj55 said:

A google search will show that there are threads in some other forums where they have tested and attached photos of the bulb in question. General impression seems to be that Philips has really managed to keep the glare factor down and the bulb's light beam pattern resembles the halogen bulb in H4 reflector. Looking at the photos the reach seems to be the same as the halogen bulb, but the width and the intensity on the road seems to be much higher compared to the halogen H4, and much whiter. Whether the transport and road safety authority of the country in question is going to accept these bulbs during MOT is a different question.

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I live in Los Angeles, California. I bought Philips H11 LEDs for my 2015 Subaru WRX Limited to match my stock LED headlights. The color matches perfectly and the beam pattern is amazing. With stock halogen, I barely saw any light from my fog lights and it looked ugly. With the LEDs, the fog lights create a wider beam pattern and really light up the ground. When I am on the 405 freeway at night, the road is completely lit up from shoulder to shoulder lane. I am assuming the H4 LED will produce equivalent results. I am waiting for Philips to create a 9005 so that I can replace the LEDs I use to replace the 9005 halogens on my high beams.

dan13l said:

With the LEDs, the fog lights create a wider beam pattern and really light up the ground. When I am on the 405 freeway at night, the road is completely lit up from shoulder to shoulder lane.

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Which is useful at fog speeds in the fog. If you're running your fog lamps in clear weather and at speeds exceeding 35mph, you're doing it very, very wrong.

Your fog lamps' sole purpose is to light up the road markings as you creep along in heavy fog. They are not a fashion accessory. Using your fog lamps in clear weather at freeway speeds is a recipe for property damage or bodily injury. See this article to learn more about fog lamps.

-Virgil- said:

I've had some test bench and night-driving time with the Philips H4 retrofit bulb in a selection of various headlamps. It's not a universal fits-in-all/works-in-all drop-in, but it works surprisingly well in some headlamps and is definitely the best product of its type for the time being. I can't say much more right now. Pretty much everything in this thread applies.

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Does this overcome the problem many LEDs have which is not enough "throw" meaning that even though brighter near the Vehicle ..at 150 to 300 feet or so the light scatters and does not light up the Road farther away as even a Halogen does
?
I am talking about in a conventional Halogen Reflector Housing..

Have they largely solved this Problem ?

-Virgil- said:

I've had some test bench and night-driving time with the Philips H4 retrofit bulb in a selection of various headlamps. It's not a universal fits-in-all/works-in-all drop-in, but it works surprisingly well in some headlamps and is definitely the best product of its type for the time being. I can't say much more right now. Pretty much everything in this thread applies.

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In the specifications PDF it stated that the
low beam is 1000 Lumens and high beam is 1250 Lumens...( +- 15%).

So my obvious question is do they actually
light the road better / brighter compared to
a similar rated Halogen assuming the Housing is working well for the LED ?

Not a scientific question ...so asking subjectively...in MOST of the Halogen Housings - did you see better at night with these ...and perhaps the Lumen Rating is conservative...
They say 150% which should beat their Plus 130 Bulbs and POSSIBLY there is a wider " hot spot" in the Beam compared to Phillips plus 130% Halogens ?

Personally I would like to see 1600 and 2000 Lumens with a nice cutoff that other Traffic ( oncoming)would barely notice the added brightness.

EDIT - Odd but Xenon Depot who sells these at about $ 269.00 maybe a 20% Discount ..
HAS THESE SPECIFIED at 2400 Lumens on Low Beam and 3200 Lumens High Beam ?¿ ?
But if you say it created better visibility than any Halogen you have seen up to 70 watts - I will believe you.

Thanks.