The Arc Product Line.....

I was wondering why there is not a middle priced Arc flashlight? The bottom of the line models seem to start in the $24-40 range, and then the next line starts at over $100. I know Arcs are great, but spending over $100 would scare off some folks?

I was wondering if a middle priced $50-70 model would sell well? Maybe something like a 2x AA (2 AA batteries) that throws out more light than the AA Arc, but less than the LS models.

I think the Arc products are great BTW. I was just curious why there wasn't a middle-of-the-price model.

arc products are all "top of the line"

the $25 models are not bottom of the arc line, they are just different and subsiquently less expensive than their more expensive counterparts.
they're still top of the line compared to similar products offered by other companies.

personally, i dont' really want to see a cheaper product by arc. what i want to see is a different product by arc.
not something in the middle of the price range (necessarily), but something in the middle of the usage range.

for example, maybe an aa or aaa sized light using 3 nichias.
if the price falls somewhere between the aaa and the ls (and it should!), then good, but i don't want want to see peter "dumbing down" any of the products to meet the demands of lower price, and i don't think he will.

a lincoln towncar or a lincoln navigator.
which one is more "top of the line"?
they way i see it, they're similar quality, but 2 different uses.

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personally, i dont' really want to see a cheaper product by arc. what i want to see is a different product by arc.
not something in the middle of the price range (necessarily), but something in the middle of the usage range.

for example, maybe an aa or aaa sized light using 3 nichias.
if the price falls somewhere between the aaa and the ls (and it should!), then good, but i don't want want to see peter "dumbing down" any of the products to meet the demands of lower price, and i don't think he will.


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Oh I agree. I'd never want to see quality go down in favor of price. I was more curious why the AAA and AA model were not upgraded to a new middle price model. I didn't mean to suggest that the higher priced models should be dumbed down.

I apologize for my bad choice of words.....

I understood what you were getting at. What if someone wants something a little more than an AA or AAA, but not as much as an LS? I have always thought that an LS powered AAA would be the ultimate EDC. Peter could probably put one right in that price range and do well with it. I know that you can buy mods like this, but a factory LS AAA would be really cool.

A 2AA with an underdriven LS would indeed flesg out the Arc range nicely. It might also have a larger appeal to the genneral public, being more "flashlight-shaped".
Soon as they're used to Arc quality of course, they'll soon want the whole range anyhow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
It would also be a nice light to take out camping; easier to feed than an Arc4, and not so expensive to lose (or am I the only one who keeps losing stuff when camping?)

I'm thinking along the lines of a 2-AA cell Arc, in the $50-75 range. To me, a longer flashlight (more grip) is more ergonomic than a pocket light. The AA Arc is GREAT for little jobs, but a longer flashlight with more grip area and brighter light would be a great all around light. Not so big that it is a pain in the rear, but large enough to improve ergonomics and pointability.

(although I think your idea of a AAA or AA Arc LS is a great idea too).

I think Peter has a specific goal in producing an EDC within the limitations of a certain size. I'd have to agree with him in that anything bigger than the Arc LS gets left at home at least once in a while for the majority of people. I know for some a 2AA light is a great EDC, put to carry one on your person all the time can get a lil inconvenient.

For me, anything bigger than a keychain size gets left at home.

Hence...

I work in a feild that requires the use of a flashlight. Alot of the guys and girls I work with would love to have an ARC but they are way to expensive. So they buy the streamlights. I personally use an L4 and a E2E that had been modded. If ARC would lower thier prices to be compatable with surefire and streamlight they would sell even more. I know that ARC light are premium but so are the surefires.

There already is an ARC LS 2AA. The pre-ARC4 LS has an optional 2AA battery pack that makes it a 2AA light. Why would Peter develope another light with that configuration? More costs for developement and inventory?

There's a debate right now in the ARC4 thread about a 2AA pack being made for it. Some are saying they have to have it and Peter is saying that he doesn't want to make it. He has yet to make money from that configuration.

Several CPFers express that the 2AA configuration is their favorite. I got my 2AA pack over a year ago and never use it. I decided that one of the best things that I like about my ARC LS is the small size. If I want to use or carry a 2AA luxeon light, then I have six 2AA modified lights (Brinkmanns, Mag, StopLights) with sandwiches from the Shoppe.

I predict that Peter will probably do a limited (maybe one time) run of the 2AA packs for the ARC4 just to appease the CPF clientele. (But what do I know?)

I'm just a big proponent of the "smaller is better" philosophy for EDC lights. The LS series to too large (around) for my EDC purposes even with the 123 pack on it, so an AAA, or even an AA, powered LS would be much better for me and wouldn't break the bank like a full blown LS.

I'm one of those people that wouldn't buy an Arc4 without a 2AA pack since my LSH-P is used around the house every day like that and only goes to 123 configuration when I need a little more powerful EDC. That not the only hurdle for me though, since I'm not made of money the current price for the Arc4 is out of my league. I paid $125 for my LSH-P (new) and that still seems a little high to me, but not that much because I still have it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I was thinking of a 2AA light that's no bigger than two Arc AAs placed end to end; perfectly cylindrical. That wouldn't be too difficult to EDC (in fact some people, who are used to penlights, might find it easier than a short fat light), and I was hoping it would be a bit cheaper than a LS too. Of course it would new tooling and R&D, wich will up the price...
IT wouldn't have a reflector, or much in the way of optics either, just a small lens perhaps. If they ever introduce a LED to fit between the 5mms and the LS this could be the perfect light for it.

i'm not so sure a smaller ls light (in an aa sized housing for example) would be any cheaper.

in the electronics world, doesn't smaller usually result in more expense?

new curcuits, housings, optics, etc will need to be developed.
i don't think that just because it's physically smaller would mean it would be any cheaper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Rothrandir, I agree that smaller usually means more expensive, but my idea would be to use as much of the AAA/AA model as possible, just with a Luxeon emitter - something like the one just posted in the mods forum.

As a newbie I ordered the Arc LSH-P with the 2AA pack, thinking that I would rather mess with AA batts than these strange 123s that I read about. But after getting it and after ordering three bricks of Surefire 123s, I doubt that I'll ever use the 2AA pack. I love the small size of the LSH. It hangs around my neck every night. Arc fills a nice niche.

Why not just keep the LSH around and price it around $70-$75? LSH doesn't have all the extras and brightness of the Arc4 but it could function well as a mid priced Arc.

based on current pricing, i think $75 would likely offer virtually no profit, or even a potential loss for arc.

i'm still not sure how arc can make a lower-priced ls light without sacrificing quality in any way.
the arc lsh, for being as nice and refined as it is, was still a very simple tool.
simply putting those components in a smaller body doesn't seem like it would offer any cost benifits. and what would there be to drop from the design to reduce costs?

i think some of the reasons for the increased cost of arcs compared to most other lights are:
ha3
selected bins
tighter tolerances
chemkote
unsurpassed quality control.

to me, things like that are what makes arc arc.
even surefire doesn't go to such lengths to ensure a premium product.

i suppose if we drop the converters and chemkote and selected bins and the price could go down a bit, but is that something we want?

i'd be interested in seeing a list of what each aspect of the arc design costs. it's not going to happen i think, but i think it would do a lot to justify the expense and explain why everything is as expensive as it is.
[example]
chemkote: $6 per light
ha3: $5
converter: $15
[/example] (those figure are in no way acurate, and if so, it was just an unlucky guess)

Yes, I will definitely interested in ARC AA with 700ma driven Luxeon LED (similar to Madmax+ driver). Maybe it can be the one with price around $75 (middle range)...

I like the LSH too, and think it should stay around. A simple mod gives it two levels of light (three if you include off) without adding weight or compexity.

I like my LSH-P a LOT better than my Surefire L1 even though both are aimed at the same niche.

I'm not sure I would EDC an ARC4+. It would feel wrong to grab it with greasy hands to look for a dropped part.

Daniel

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gadget_lover said:
I like the LSH too, and think it should stay around. A simple mod gives it two levels of light (three if you include off) without adding weight or compexity.

I like my LSH-P a LOT better than my Surefire L1 even though both are aimed at the same niche.

I'm not sure I would EDC an ARC4+. It would feel wrong to grab it with greasy hands to look for a dropped part.

Daniel

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I will admit Daniel, you have breathed new life into my ARC-LSH light. I can't wait until your other MODS arrive, so they can be installed into my remain LSH's.