Nichia LEDs

I'm seeing a lot of new lights coming with Nichia lights. For example, the D25a. This has a 219 lumen output though, roughly 1/2 the output of the cree versions. Is this worth it for most people to get a pure white light?

its not pure white light the Nichias are supposed to replicate natural sunlight. 219 is the emitter code there is the Nichia 219a and 219b they are slightly different tints of very close to natural sunlight. I personally have never seen a Nichia put out anything close to natural sunlight but that is subjective. Think of it as the emitter you want for the truest color rendition.

I wouldn't call them pure white either. Pure white is highly subjective anyways. Some people see 4000k or 4500k in most cases as whitest to them. Some people see 5000k or higher as more pure white to them. Subjective neutrality of these CCTs vary based on your adapted white-balance at the time and your mood. Technically speaking, pure white would be a completely balance visible spectrum.

The main allure of Nichia LEDs is their high color rendering-- specifically the deep red region of the color spectrum which most LEDs struggle to reproduce. So if you're really into woods and skin-tones looking as if they were under golden-hour sunlight, then consider Nichias.

CelticCross74 said:

its not pure white light the Nichias are supposed to replicate natural sunlight. 219 is the emitter code there is the Nichia 219a and 219b they are slightly different tints of very close to natural sunlight. I personally have never seen a Nichia put out anything close to natural sunlight but that is subjective. Think of it as the emitter you want for the truest color rendition.

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That's pretty much it. Try one, or five, and you'll likely be hooked!

The sunlight thing is hard to quantify. Some people call 5000K bulbs sunlight...but the sun around me is never BLUE, so I don't know where they live. Even at high noon on a clear day the "tint" of the sun can change so much depending on ambient objects, foliage, clouds, dust, debris in the atmosphere, etc.

The way I compare this is with a tiny opening in a window blind. My Nichia lights are very very close to this in a side by side test with sunlight around 1-2PM. Now that's just getting a little ridiculous, but I had to try it.

So from what I've owned, the 5000K 219C was the PURE WHITE as mentioned. The 4500K is just as nice IMO, but a little warmer. 4000K is too warm for me, but still very nice color rendition. Except for my 4000K Malkoff, which doesn't appear to be that warm. Nichia also has a lot of LED variations, so it can be confusion.

I will go a step further and say, it seems that lots of folks start out looking for the most lumens or the longest throw. Then often they seem to graduate to the most pleasing beam pattern and tints. I can say this behavioral pattern was true for me.
Tint could be important:
Exhibit A: if you are at work on say auto electronics under the dash of your Ferrari 458 Speciale, and you have have a angry blue led tint, all the wires can look the same color. If you are looking for a brown wire in a harness, that can be hard to ID. However, with a Nichia type light, the colors are more easily distinguishable.
Exhibit B: if you are hunting predators at night on your private 5000 acre ranch in Texas (full of gushing oil wells), you may like that angry blue tinted thrower that makes the eyes reflect at long distances helping you spot that elusive Chupacabra.

So this is helpful but what im trying to figur out do most people think it is actually worth it to 'lose' pure brightness for color?

Thanks for input Str8stroke. I have a lot of dead Ferarris outback on my Texas ranch collectiving dust because I did not have the correct flashlight and cut the wrong wires. ����

From my experience, when doing anything outdoors, I tend to like the higher output more than color rendition. The color rendition tends to go out the window outdoors as well if the light is spread around a huge area. Reason being for this is because there's less lux illuminating objects, and the less they're illuminated, the less the CRI is in effect.

For indoor uses, I like the hi cri lights better, although in an environment where electricity is readily handy, I don't find many opportunities to use the lights indoors.

On the other hand, you could have both huge output and high cri with something like the Noctigon Meteor M43.

For edc type uses or a close up work light, it's a yes for me. The D25A is no pocket rocket and the difference in lumen to the eye is not much, however a nice hi cri 4500k tint compared to a 6500k cold one is . Think instead of the loss , think of the gain in colours and eye comfort . I do find the nichia really easy on the eye, not as strained in use if makes sense as your surroundings are essier to differentiate .

Defo worth a try , just allow time to get used to it as may appear warm at first if use to CW. For edc uses its hard to go back to anything else IMO .

7hns said:

So this is helpful but what im trying to figur out do most people think it is actually worth it to 'lose' pure brightness for color?

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If you look at the actual numbers, there isn't that much difference, maybe in the 30% range. To the Mark 1 Eyeball, it would be hard to tell that difference, especially if there was a tint difference as well. I'm willing to give up that amount to get the color rendition. After all, I already have my light to 'reach out and touch someone' in Neutral White if I really need the distance. The 219B gives me a more faithful color rendition in those closer uses, where it makes more of a difference.

7hns said:

So this is helpful but what im trying to figur out do most people think it is actually worth it to 'lose' pure brightness for color?

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Most of the time I see the cooler side of neutral referred to as pure white. You can get a Nichia close to this, so the real sacrifice is either in output (1x Nichia 219 won't be as bright as say, an XP-L ceteris paribus) or runtime (multiple Nichias can get bright but require a lot of power). Whether the sacrifice is worth it for the superior colour rendition very much depends on use cases and personal preference.
As an aside, this extends to other high CRI emitters as well. As a general rule, the higher the CRI, the lower the output for the same energy.

7hns said:

I'm seeing a lot of new lights coming with Nichia lights. For example, the D25a. This has a 219 lumen output though, roughly 1/2 the output of the cree versions. Is this worth it for most people to get a pure white light?

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I wouldn't say there are lots, but there are some lights. But you need to know what you are looking for to understand the differences.

For example, just saying "Cree" is also too vague. Cree is a manufacturer, not a thing. There are many Cree LEDs. So you need to specify the type of emitter. And then it's Tint code and it's output Bin.

Nichia, like Cree is also a manufacturer. The 219 series of LEDs is just one of many they make. There are also different generations of 219. The oldest 219a, which you are unlikely to find in any/many new lights these days. The 219B and the 219C. They all perform differently to each other.

And for each 219 generation, these are also binned for output and tint. So not all of them are equal either.


To this end, you need to understand, at least on a basic level the binning and tints, CRI and colour temp (in k). This will help you in your buying decision.


As for if it's worth it. It depends really.

Tint you will see no matter what output mode you use the light on and no matter what you point the light at.

How much this matters will likely depend on your personal preference and the actual subject matter you are pointing the light at.

If you are in rural areas, where there is a lot of green and brown from trees & grass, then a NW or neutral white emitter will generally be more pleasant.

If you using it indoors or in a warehouse, this might not matter as much.


Most, but NOT all Nichia Leds sold are of a higher CRI an NW tint.

The 219B and C variants will also get pretty close to the outputs of the equivalent CREE LEDs. But the difference in tint and CRI might not be so easy to tell by eye.

Yes, it's worth it. The only times i use my lights at full blast, is when i try to impress someone. Im a lot outdoors camping, fishing, hunting etc. And think less is more. If i use as little light as i can. My nightvision stays more or less intact. And i can see mounains in the distance to navigate on. If i start blasting, my night adapted eye goes poof, and i can only see whats in my bubble of light. It takes a hour for my eyes og to go back into nightvision mode.

I swapped the xpg out of my hp1 for a 219b and love it. Truest color of ANY of my LED lights.

7hns said:

I'm seeing a lot of new lights coming with Nichia lights. For example, the D25a. This has a 219 lumen output though, roughly 1/2 the output of the cree versions. Is this worth it for most people to get a pure white light?

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Here is the light spectrum from a Cree XP-G2 in an Olight i3s rated for 80 lumens on High:

Here is a Nichia 219a in a Prometheus Beta Copper, also rated for 80 lumens on high:

I choose Nichia every time.

LEDs do NOT equal sunlight in any way. There is no "pure white" LED.

LEDs make a LOT of Blue light. They are very bad at showing RED. To make an LED show RED, requires coating the LED with a phosphor coating that produces RED. This coating reduces the brightness.

I dont use my lights on High most of the time. So to me, the color accuracy is more important. I choose the LED that shows RED better, so I choose HIGH CRI LEDS. Nichia makes HIGH CRI LEDS. (cree does too, but most brightness prioritized lights use LOW CRI CREE LEDS.

If you want to try a Nichia, a light that I like that offers a chance to see for you yourself is the Lumintop Copper Tool with Nichia. That light is also offered with XPG2. The high on the Nichia model is 80 lumens. The high on the XPG2 model is 110 lumens. I do not prioritize lumens, I prioritize more realistic RED spectrum.

Here is the Color rendering of a light with (low) 70 CRI. MOST off the shelf lights have a CRI in this range, usually a Cree Led.

here is a light with (high) 90 CRI. It is a Cree LED that is rarely used, because it is less bright, and most buyers focus on the brightness spec. Most off the shelf lights with Nichia are HIGH CRI

So what is the realistic difference I'd see on this http://www.illumn.com/eagletac-d25c-clicky-nichia-219.html? vs the 450 lumen one? Does it really 'feel like' half the brightness?

7hns said:

So what is the realistic difference I'd see on this http://www.illumn.com/eagletac-d25c-clicky-nichia-219.html? vs the 450 lumen one? Does it really 'feel like' half the brightness?

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It shouldn't. It takes a four fold increase in lumens to appear twice as bright to the human eye. So for the CREE LED version to appear twice as bright, it would need to put out 800 lumens or so. You may be able to see a difference, but it won't be that drastic.

7hns said:

So what is the realistic difference I'd see on this http://www.illumn.com/eagletac-d25c-clicky-nichia-219.html? vs the 450 lumen one? Does it really 'feel like' half the brightness?

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Your eyes respond on a power exponent scale, so no twice as many lumen don't seem like twice the brightness.

High CRI Nichia LEDs have my favorite tint. I refuse to buy flashlights with cool white tint. I got over that years ago. Neutral white 5000k Cree lights are acceptable as well. In general, modern lights are plenty bright. I don't need to chase every possible lumen. I'd rather have a pleasant looking light instead of a sickly bluish purple beam.

jon_slider said:

If you want to try a Nichia, a light that I like that offers a chance to see for you yourself is the Lumintop Copper Tool with Nichia. That light is also offered with XPG2. The high on the Nichia model is 80 lumens. The high on the XPG2 model is 110 lumens. I do not prioritize lumens, I prioritize more realistic RED spectrum.

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A less costly comparison would be to compare the Singfire 348 using a CREE XP-E emitter to the custom version, the Budget Light Forums 348 [also known as the BLF 348] swaps out the XP-E for a Nichia 219B. Both are a single AAA light with only one mode. They are available from GearBest, and you will spend less than $20 USD to acquire both versions. Either one is a nice little light, but I like the beam on the 219B much better, and of course there is the higher CRI as well.

7hns said:

So this is helpful but what im trying to figur out do most people think it is actually worth it to 'lose' pure brightness for color?

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What the uninitiated assume, myself included, is that you can see more with a brighter light. Generally, this assumption is false. The brightness of a light does not determine how much or what you can see. Those with a better grasp of this will explain it better, but I think an extreme example might show why: you will see more with a 200lm High CRI light source than you will with a 2000lm orange-red light source.