Hi.
This is a comparison of 7 high-end single CR123 cell lights, all of them modded or completely created from scratch by one or more of our members. As these are all state-of-the-art devices this thread should not be viewed as a contest between the lights but more as some help to decide which one would suit your needs better, as they are quite different and each one has its own merits and flaws.
The lights are those:
You recognise 4 lights based on the E-Series modular concept as well as 3 stand-alone designs. The E-Series lights are discussed as is and without the benefits of a vast number of interchangeable parts in mind.
You won't see the Arc4 here, and I agree that it should have been included. But since I despise the interface I have not nor will I ever buy one, sorry.
Unfortunately this post has become far more complex and longer than I have anticipated, so go get some food so that you won't starve if you want to go through with this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
For the convenience of those who are not entirely familiar with those lights an extensive description is added in the first part of this post. Let's start right away with ...
A. CONSTRUCTION AND ERGONOMICS ================================================
1. Jets22 Blackbird
A small light in the tradition of the veteran Arc LS Series, it is machined from aircraft aluminium and coated with an ultra-durable and elusive matte black TiN finish. It comes with an additional CR2 battery pack which is disregarded in this comparison. Interestingly you can screw off a part of the tailpack to insert the battery from the rear; there isn't the slightest gap visible! This is just one proof of the high quality machining done in this light, another thing worth mentioning is the very very smooth screwing-action itself, one just cannot stop doing it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif . Blackbird can stand on its tail and has holes for split-ring attachment in a clever way similar to the Arc AA. The light is completely o-ring sealed and watertight in my bathtub. It is activated with a twist of the bezel, first it lights up in dim mode via the 2-stage switch (available in the Sandwich Shoppe) installed in the tailcap, and upon further tightening the bezel it will enter high mode. The reflective element is an integral polished aluminium flood reflector which is hit with lots of photons coming from a T-bin LuxIII powered by a dat2zip MM+ driver. For a tighter beam one can swap in an optic, but will loose waterproofness in the process.
Overall it is an allrounder that can also be carried on a keychain, but it is a bit on the bulky side in your front pocket together with the keys and whatever else might be there. It can also be operated with one single hand without any problem.
More pics of this beauty can be found here.
Possible Minor Problems:
- not waterproof when optic is used
- there is an occasional flicker in the low mode
- you won't get much work done during the day due to excessive screwing-action, it feels so /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
2. Fire~Fly Mk II
The successor of the venerable Firefly MkI (based on tvodrd's LL initially) can now stand on its tail while still having the split-ring attachment possible. Further more, the o-ring rides now higher so that it does not interfere with the threads engaging once the head is screwed on the body. Apart form that the machining hasn't changed all that much, the Fire~Fly is a small twist-on light similar to the Arc LS with now gunmetal HA3 and a turned-down NX05 to fit the small diameter powered by a dat2zip BB650 LuxIII sandwich of unknown bin with a pure white colour, at least my two units are quite white /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif, which is a change compared to the LD MM+ sammie in the first run. The unit is relatively heavy due to the massive copper head for heatsinking purposes and it bears the characteristic copper ring between head and body /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. As an alternative you can have a turned-down Fraen-LP optic or an aluminium head to reduce weight when using less powerful sandwiches. And yes, you can just swap out your old sandwich and replace it with another one of your choice to keep your light updated. As a CR2 body will shortly be offered, the Fire~Fly is now an extremely flexible package. In addition to that, the new version has an optional 2-stage switch installed just like in the Blackbird above. In the end, this one is one of the best EDC lights in existence and is well suited for all carrying methods including a keychain and can be used single-handed. The Fire~Fly MkII is brought to you by our well known member DSpeck.
Possible Minor Problems:
- my two units have substantial HA irregularities on the body
- the 2-stage switch might be a bit weird sometimes and is prone to problems (but the high mode will always be available, even if the switch fails); a good summary of the solutions is here.
- the optic might be considered inefficient by some people and a reflector would be preferred
- the sandwich is held in place by a metal ring that can shorten the driver, it can easily be replaced by an appropriate o-ring though if one is so inclined
3. L1 head LuxIII on E1e
As I do not have a name for this marvel, here is the description: a well known member who goes by the code name McGizmo put a TV0J LuxIII and a BB750 in an L1 head and also swapped in the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif IMS so17xa for optimum photon management. This head rides on a E1e body and is controlled by a McE2S-30 in the Z52 LOTC. Would Don already have released his own guarded cap the light would have been able to stand on end, but alas no, it falls in this version /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. The machining of the light is SF quality from the outside, nothing more to say here, and McGizmo on the inside, which is also without flaw, as usual. The functionality of the McE2S and its components I will gladly leave to other threads, suffice to say it works perfectly. The real point of this light is the very small size of the L1 head where Don has succeeded to cram in all the necessary thingies to make one hell of a light.
This unit is a part of the huge E-Series modular light concept and all the components are interchangeable with the corresponding parts of various manufacturers. More about E-Series Modularity.
In your pocket it rides well, but on your keychain it looks and feels funny at best. Too big and uneven for keychain-purpose. One-handed operation is difficult but possible.
Possible Minor Problems:
- the spring on the McE2S on the earlier versions might be too strong for weaklings
4. L1 head LuxV on E1e
This is the same light as above, done by the same man, Don in this case, it has just a 5W W-binned LED driven by a BB600 in the guts and uses the McE2S-30 module in an E2D tailcap for stand-on-end capability and further carrying and mounting options. Ah yes, and it is Black HA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. The so17xa that is used is a special stippled prototype version that should enhance the 5W's beam, which we will see a few moments later in this show.
NOTE: this head can also be used with 2x123!
5. McLux-PR/T 5W on E1e
As Don never sleeps he has made another one for me, this time a PR/T head houses a W4V 5W LED driven by a BB500 driver. The head rides on the usual SF E1e which has its butt covered by the usual McE2S-30. It is basically the same set-up as the light above but uses a different photon-management-system (the PR, that is) and a slightly weaker driver. It is also a bit bigger and more difficult to carry in a pocket and outright impossible on any kind of keychain unless you are green and an Ogre /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif. The PR/T head matches the perfect quality of the SF parts quite well, IMHO it goes especially well with the E1e for looks and because it extends the small barrel a bit to make it easier to grab should you have big hands. It can also be run on a 2 x 123 set-up. The head is covered by a glass lens and fully o-ring sealed, of course, and it is HAIII. You can buy those as kits and the Sandwich Shoppe.
Possible Minor Problems:
- a little bit on the big side for 1x123
- slight HA mismatch with SF parts
6. VIP
Created by MrBulk with the help of Otokoyama as "machinist" and some unknown electronic wizard (georges80?). This is the biggest light in the comparison and is for pocket-carry only IMHO, no keychain, sorry. Build quality is very good with an aggressive knurling on lots of characteristic "ribs" for heat dissipation. Perfect HA-BK coating except the well known bare spot on the switch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. The unit came – yes, past tense, the show is over, no more VIPs are rolling off the assembly line – either with the so17xa or the Fraen LP optic; the reviewed one has the so17xa installed. The driver is supposedly a microcontrolled one, and thus the 3 offered brightness settings are all fully regulated. You choose the brightness via the switch on the barrel and activate the light with a Kroll clicky at the tail cap. The VIP stands on his butt with the infamous KingsCrown tailguard that allow an easy use of the Kroll while still offering good tailstand-ability and a hole for split-ring or lanyard attachment while having rounded legs to avoid killing your pockets. Of course the VIP is fully o-ring sealed. You definitely need two of your hands (that means all of them) to operate this light if you want brightness changes included, otherwise one-handed Kroll operation is perfectly fine. The brightness selector switch is hard to turn due to the o-ring seals in the beginning but will eventually break in.
Possible Minor Problems:
- quite large for a 1-cell light
- some people strongly dislike the Kroll (can easily replaced in case of failure though)
- the converter board hangs relatively loose in the body (at least in my unit)
- one little spot where the anodize misses at the switch (for the anal guys out there, you know who you are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
7. NexGen BB1000 in McLux-PR on E1e
The fabulous and elusive new board from dat2zip ... read more about it here.
This is a NexGen1000 in safe mode installed in a HA-NAT McLux-PR head driving a TV0J LuxIII. The tail is the E1e / McE2S-30 combo we know so well. The McGizmo-made PR head is of course top-notch quality as we all know by now, nothing more to say here. The problem of this light is foremost size ... it is a pocket-only light, just like the VIP, and it is a bit head-heavy aesthetically speaking without the guarded McE2S which is not yet available.
Otherwise this unit is one other choice of the E-Series modularity set-up with all the endless possibilities attached.
Possible Minor Problems:
- relatively large
- you'd really like to know what it can do in "unsafe"-mode ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
B. OPERATION ============================================================
Here are comments about the operation and beam characteristic as well as power of the light including remarks about heat and general usability. Comparative data about brightness can be found in chapter C.
Each cluster of beamshots is done against two reference units: an Arc LSH modded with an R2H and driven at 363mA which is slightly more than factory setting. Think of this unit as a slightly superior LSH. Low output is plotted against an Arc AAA standard without any modifications. In the high setting you have a "corona-shot" with overexposed hotspots that can then be viewed correctly in the "hotspot-shot" with less exposure.
In addition to that you have an outdoor shot at a bench and a table being roughly 5m away from the lights. As these pics are rather poor in quality (sorry), the coronas of the lights aren't very well represented. It is almost a hotspot-only representation. You can judge the beam of the light by looking at how brightly the target is lit (who would have thought of that? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) as well as how well the beam manages to penetrate to the trees behind (8m) and how wide the beam is looking at the grass.
Each light used a fresh Sanyo CR123, the batteries of the reference units weren't changed during the shootout.
Here are reference outdoor shots of the Arc LSH R2H and a SF L4:
Let's start with …
1. Jets22 Blackbird
This is a special one. It is a true flood light without the optic swapped in, and this is the version we are discussing here. Beamshots:
No real hotspot, really wide beam. It illuminates almost an entire room without having to move the light around and – quite important – without blinding you in close-up work. It is the ideal indoor light and fails miserably outdoor (unless it is pitch black) as a consequence. I'd call it a special-purpose light, this one is certainly not an allrounder without optic.
Operation is smooth and reliable … twist head for low beam, twist further for high and vice versa. The low mode is prone to some occasional flicker (why I do not know), but apart from that function is flawless. Heat is not really a problem, the unit is big enough to take care of excess heat when held in a hand. As with the old Firefly runtime on a MM+ is over an hour on high and much longer on dim which is sufficient IMHO.
The tailstanding ability is especially useful with this flood light to illuminate whole rooms.
2. Fire~Fly Mk II
Despite some possible problems with the 2-stage-switch mentioned above which have their resolutions the Fire~Fly is easy to operate: screw the head in for low and screw it further in for high output. The beam with the chopped-down NX05 is like this:
… similar to the real optic with more spill and a somewhat less defined hotspot, but still rather acceptable. Of course a reflector would do better (at least this is the consensus I gather), but the optic is OK. Centering the thing upon sandwich replacement is another matter though and might drive some of the short-tempered folks slightly insane /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Colour is pure white with a slight bluish tinge, the "HID-white" so many love.
Low Beam is clearly brighter than the AAA and it should be, since on high the unit heats up quickly and needs to be held firmly in the hand to prevent overheating. On high the Fire~Fly is brighter than the LS which is reflected in a significant loss of runtime to about 45 minutes in constant-on. If this is worth the price is up to you, if it isn't, just swap out the sammy for a weaker one!
3. L1 head LuxIII on E1e
This one is operated via the McE2S-30 tailcap. Screw in for low mode and screw further for high. At any given time you can depress the button for momentary low (if off) and high (if off or in low mode). No lockout is possible with this cap, although it is stiff enough to prevent too easy accidental activation. Maybe too stiff for weaker fingers when you happen to have the earlier versions without Don's custom spring. Although it might sound complicated, the operation of this tailcap is very intuitive and easy.
The BB750/TV0J combo launches a significant amount of pure white photons at the so17xa that does a very good job of redirecting them elsewhere, namely outside the front end of the light:
The beam can be called near-perfect which is astonishing for a little plastic device like this. The so17xa will shine brightly in our future, this is for certain. You get a mid-sized hotspot and a good corona for optimum general purpose lighting. This light is very bright in high-mode (think VIP) at the cost of runtime (35 min) and significant heat over time, so low-mode will be the level of choice most of the time, and with the 30 ohm tailcap it is clearly bright enough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. Sustained high mode is easily possible, but just like everyone else, the light has to be held in a cooling hand to maintain thermal stability.
4. L1 head LuxV on E1e
This is basically the same light as above. The so17xa it uses is a special one though, it is a stippled prototype that does well with a 5W to smooth out the beam:
There is a slight donut-hole visible, but not more than in all other 5W-applications we know off, including Surefires.
This light is a flood light, or almost so. It has a not-so-hot hotspot which is huge to compensate for its lack in power and a more than adequately bright corona. Throw is not the special ability of this light, but it still lights up a backyard nicely. Think of the beam as being a bit wider as the SF L4 and a bit less bright (on 1x123 mind you; this head can also run on 2 x 123 and it will be brighter then). In low mode it is very dim with a 30 ohm tailcap, dimmer than the AAA. One might want to change to a 22 ohm resistor.
The lot of light produced (IMHO this light has the most lumens in this test, but that is just a guess) has a price … a runtime on high of only 27 minutes and a lot of heat, but it can still be held more or less comfortably during constant-on for a full battery life.
5. McLux-PR/T 5W on E1e
Another 5W in a similar setting as above, but with a different photon management, namely the famous PR:
The PR does a very good job of focussing a 5W if one is inclined to ignore slight irregularities in the hotspot which do not affect the usability of the light in real life. Those artifacts can be eliminated completely with the usage of the older more stippled PR if you can find one. In this set-up the 5W is a medium flood beam which is very useful everywhere except when it comes to real throw.
It is clearly brighter than the 5W/so17xa combo while drawing the same current and having about the same runtime, although heat management is better in the larger head. It still should be hold in your hand when constant-on high, but the max. temperature is less than in the smaller lights. But so is your chance to fit it in a tight pocket /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
The 30 ohms of the McE2S is overly sufficient here.
NOTE: the BB500 / 600 / 750 with a 5W each draw about 1900mA from a single CR123, so this could be the maximum possible in this regard. But I won't say more since I have no clue about those questions … /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
6. VIP
Talking about the so17xa version here, so we already know it has a perfect beam:
Have I said it is pure white? High beam is very bright of course, but the pleasure is relatively short-lived because of the death of the poor battery. The medium setting is where the VIP really shines … still plenty bright and lots of runtime (over 3 hours depending on your light and battery, YMMV). The VIP is the light that runs longest with any significant brightness. Low mode will, according to Roy, endure at least about 60 hours or so (haven't had the patience to test it myself). There is a so-called dim-low which is the real low-mode and a high-low which is the emitter direct-driven. This anomaly of the low mode might annoy the anal souls of our community, so be aware of that before purchasing the light! When activating the light directly in low you'll often end up in "high-low".
You switch the brightness with a knob at the barrel which is stiff in the beginning but will eventually break in. Because of the form of the knob you always know the setting by touch in total darkness /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif. The actual on/off switch is the venerable Kroll at the tail of the VIP, there's not much to say about this one except that some do not like it very much. Should it ever fail it is easy to replace though, so no worries here either. This is a very intuitive way to operate a light and has all the possibilities we ask for. The only problem to this solution is that you need two hands.
Heat is no problem due to the size of the light. It gets hot, OK, but it won't burn down spontaneously.
7. NexGen BB1000 in McLux-PR on E1e
The most well-known combo of recent months on CPF … well, except for the driver /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. A TV0J in a PR driven hard --> makes a hot hotspot and huge corona. Same here of course:
Hottest spot in tournament, killer of everything. It annihilates the Arcs with ease as well as everyone else in this post /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. With the McE2S-30 it is slightly too bright in low-mode IMHO, but the right brightness is a subjective matter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Due to the intense spot this is not an allround light for me, but then again I know that you all love a piercing needle beam, so I'll shut up about this now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
As with the newer generation of converters (see also the VIP) the NexGen can sustain high mode for more than 45 minutes before falling out of regulation, and it is very bright (see below). Heat is not a problem with the McLux-PR head, but consequently, size is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif, although it is still smaller than the VIP.
Overall this is a real improvement in the 1x123 league (as is the VIP I suppose, but I have yet to see some hard data about this), and I am curious about the "full-mode" as this what we observe here is "safe-mode" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
C. COMPARATIVE DATA ====================================================
Here's the chart:
Keep in mind though that the variance between single units of the same kind can be quite large as is well demonstrated by Ray's (this_is_nascar's) runtime-plots of his various VIPs. Your mileage may and most certainly will vary. You can find this important insight in the reviews forum as a sticky.
For more detailed runtime plots have a look at the stickies in the revies forum, it is well worth it!
D. RANDOM GENERAL CONCLUSIONS ===================================================
- Green … that is what Luxeons produce to a certain degree when driven below spec, for example by a resistored driver in low-mode.
- White … is what we mostly see now when driven adequately as opposed to puke-green not so long ago.
- Progress … there is. Lots of it. I just had a look at one of my older reviews and I am astonished at the achievements in Luxeon technology (despite our constant whining /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif ) as well as perfection of our modders and creators.
- Heat … is still the price though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
- Multi-Level-Lights … now that we have the technology, we need more than one level of light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif! This allows for high powered lights (actually all of the reviewed units are quite scorchers) to be used as general purpose lights and reasonable EDCs.
- the so17xa is a perfect solution for 1W and LuxIII and a very acceptable one for the 5W if flood is what you want
E. CONCLUSIONS PER CATEGORY ================================================
If you are looking for a light that has …
… max. Brightness / Throw
The LuxIII in a PR is still king. In this post it is the NexGen1000, the competition doesn't even come close to this scorcher. Remember that this doesn't say anything about total light output in lumens though.
… the best Flood of Light
Jets22's Blackbird is the winner here followed by the 5W/so17xa combo. It won't get floodier than the Blackbird /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
… the longest runtime
The VIP is king. Not because of the high-mode, but because of the 3+h medium mode! No other light here can offer more than 3h at a relatively high brightness, and bright it is in medium, believe me!
… the whitest light
You can get them all, Luxeon lottery excluded from my considerations. Technology has improved and the LuxIII as well as most of the 5W are quite white nowadays.
… the smallest form factor
Choose the Fire~Fly or the Blackbird according to your needs. All the others are a significant step larger.
… no heat problem
Look elsewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif! On high, those get all quite hot, one more, one less. The coldest freezers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif in this comparison are the VIP and the NexGen. Low mode of course is no problem, so if high mode is not your primary target, you're good to go anywhere here.
… the highest possible build quality
You can buy them all. All of them are tough like a Drill Sergeants and are watertight.
… the least problems associated
Know that the 2-stage switches in the Fire~Fly and the Blackbird *might* cause annoyances one day or another. Otherwise there aren't any serious problems with all of those lights.
… stands on end
You can buy any of them provided you choose the now available McE2S-TK guarded caps of McGizmo.
… offer possibilities for further combinations
The E-Series-based units all fit in the big modular concept around the SF E-Series, McLux and Aleph Series as well as more parts of different manufacturers. The possibilities are endless. The VIP offers some accessories and the Blackbird has a CR2 body as well as a optic-option just like the Fire~Fly will have in the near future. The E-Series are still by far the largest platform here, but all the others have something to offer, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
… the least weight
Blackbird or Fire~Fly with aluminium head.
… has a clicky
The VIP is the only clicky in this game.
… is the sexiest light
For me that would be the black L1/E1e/Z61 combo without question. Although the butt of the VIP has a lot of alien sex appeal, too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif.
F. CONCLUSIONS PER LIGHT ======================================================
Jets22 Blackbird
You want a light mostly for indoor work, to check upon your little children without disturbing their peaceful slumber but with enough punch to light up a room nicely? Throw is something you've heard of but you cannot quite grasp the concept? And you are a class-act and want the best and classiest gear? Try to find a Blackbird then, there isn't any better for you.
Fire~Fly MkII
Your keychain is empty, and you want to equip it with something powerful yet small enough not to cause discomfort or embarrassing "misunderstandings"? Of course it should also have a long runtime option and be able to stand on tail, and an upgrade option for the brighter future with better LEDs would be nice, too? A true Jack-of-all-Trades then. Well, if you don't mind a somewhat compromised beam quality we have something for you here: the Fire~Fly MkII!
L1 head with BB750 TV0J on E1e with McE2S-30
The name doesn't shock you? Well, then welcome in the realm of the modular lights! This one will satisfy all your needs for photon emission in modern technology, and it opens the door to modular possibilities beyond your highest expectations! The only thing it cannot do is hang on your keychain. If this is not a problem for you, this mod will make you a happy camper!
L1 head with BB600 5W on E1e with McE2S-30
You find the hotspot of the LuxIII mentioned above annoying? No problemo, senor, use this light with a 5W head for a flood of beautiful light! A powerful flood that can later be swapped on a 2x123 body for even more flood and endurance if you are so inclined. You shouldn't have an aversion against donuts though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, since we are currently out of stipples prototype so17xa reflectors.
McLux-PR/T 5W on E1e
Compromise rules. For you, compromise is a lot of light, a useful flood, some acceptable medium throw and a big hotspot … then this light with its 5W/PR set-up is the ticket for you, Sir! You will have it all covered except long throw and long runtime. And of course size doesn't really matter that much, all men know that, so that it is no problem for you that this fellow is a bit on the larger side of 1x123 lights.
VIP
Where the name is a concept, and you are truly fitting in that concept. The VIP is an exceptional light with an exceptional design still meeting every usability criteria one could invent. Except size, that is, ahem. Where form and function converge into a unique product that can offer great performance in the runtime and beam quality sector as well as some punch but lacks a bit in the size factor. You have big pockets and you want it all … the VIP will satisfy you.
NexGen BB1000 in McLux-PR on E1e
It is throw you're after, and some nice flood for close-up illumination would be nice, too? Beam should be perfect? And you do not mind a head a little on the bulky side of life? Then we present this marvel with one of the best drivers in existence. It won't disappoint you, quite the opposite, you'll look in awe upon the powerful needle-like beam emerging from this beauty. And to top it all, it is an E-Series modular light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
In the end, I like them all. Great lights, all different. The problem is to choose …
... and that is what this post is all about: providing info about different aspects of lights so that you shall draw your own conclusion which one to purchase.
A member pointed out that one could feel my enthusiasm for the so17xa in a way that might be inappropriate and might impose my views of the ideal photon management on you. Sorry for that, I did not intend this. I, too, know the merits of concentrated throwing beams like the PR does produce, I just use them rarely, thus my preference for medium flood lights. In no way I think this is an absolute value! Please do not feel any intention in this direction on purpose from my side, sorry again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
bernhard
NOTE: the measurements of current and lux were possible because of the very generous donations of a light-meter by miciobigio and a DMM by milkyspit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif and /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif to these gentlemen!!!
This is a comparison of 7 high-end single CR123 cell lights, all of them modded or completely created from scratch by one or more of our members. As these are all state-of-the-art devices this thread should not be viewed as a contest between the lights but more as some help to decide which one would suit your needs better, as they are quite different and each one has its own merits and flaws.
The lights are those:
You recognise 4 lights based on the E-Series modular concept as well as 3 stand-alone designs. The E-Series lights are discussed as is and without the benefits of a vast number of interchangeable parts in mind.
You won't see the Arc4 here, and I agree that it should have been included. But since I despise the interface I have not nor will I ever buy one, sorry.
Unfortunately this post has become far more complex and longer than I have anticipated, so go get some food so that you won't starve if you want to go through with this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
For the convenience of those who are not entirely familiar with those lights an extensive description is added in the first part of this post. Let's start right away with ...
A. CONSTRUCTION AND ERGONOMICS ================================================
1. Jets22 Blackbird
A small light in the tradition of the veteran Arc LS Series, it is machined from aircraft aluminium and coated with an ultra-durable and elusive matte black TiN finish. It comes with an additional CR2 battery pack which is disregarded in this comparison. Interestingly you can screw off a part of the tailpack to insert the battery from the rear; there isn't the slightest gap visible! This is just one proof of the high quality machining done in this light, another thing worth mentioning is the very very smooth screwing-action itself, one just cannot stop doing it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif . Blackbird can stand on its tail and has holes for split-ring attachment in a clever way similar to the Arc AA. The light is completely o-ring sealed and watertight in my bathtub. It is activated with a twist of the bezel, first it lights up in dim mode via the 2-stage switch (available in the Sandwich Shoppe) installed in the tailcap, and upon further tightening the bezel it will enter high mode. The reflective element is an integral polished aluminium flood reflector which is hit with lots of photons coming from a T-bin LuxIII powered by a dat2zip MM+ driver. For a tighter beam one can swap in an optic, but will loose waterproofness in the process.
Overall it is an allrounder that can also be carried on a keychain, but it is a bit on the bulky side in your front pocket together with the keys and whatever else might be there. It can also be operated with one single hand without any problem.
More pics of this beauty can be found here.
Possible Minor Problems:
- not waterproof when optic is used
- there is an occasional flicker in the low mode
- you won't get much work done during the day due to excessive screwing-action, it feels so /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
2. Fire~Fly Mk II
The successor of the venerable Firefly MkI (based on tvodrd's LL initially) can now stand on its tail while still having the split-ring attachment possible. Further more, the o-ring rides now higher so that it does not interfere with the threads engaging once the head is screwed on the body. Apart form that the machining hasn't changed all that much, the Fire~Fly is a small twist-on light similar to the Arc LS with now gunmetal HA3 and a turned-down NX05 to fit the small diameter powered by a dat2zip BB650 LuxIII sandwich of unknown bin with a pure white colour, at least my two units are quite white /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif, which is a change compared to the LD MM+ sammie in the first run. The unit is relatively heavy due to the massive copper head for heatsinking purposes and it bears the characteristic copper ring between head and body /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. As an alternative you can have a turned-down Fraen-LP optic or an aluminium head to reduce weight when using less powerful sandwiches. And yes, you can just swap out your old sandwich and replace it with another one of your choice to keep your light updated. As a CR2 body will shortly be offered, the Fire~Fly is now an extremely flexible package. In addition to that, the new version has an optional 2-stage switch installed just like in the Blackbird above. In the end, this one is one of the best EDC lights in existence and is well suited for all carrying methods including a keychain and can be used single-handed. The Fire~Fly MkII is brought to you by our well known member DSpeck.
Possible Minor Problems:
- my two units have substantial HA irregularities on the body
- the 2-stage switch might be a bit weird sometimes and is prone to problems (but the high mode will always be available, even if the switch fails); a good summary of the solutions is here.
- the optic might be considered inefficient by some people and a reflector would be preferred
- the sandwich is held in place by a metal ring that can shorten the driver, it can easily be replaced by an appropriate o-ring though if one is so inclined
3. L1 head LuxIII on E1e
As I do not have a name for this marvel, here is the description: a well known member who goes by the code name McGizmo put a TV0J LuxIII and a BB750 in an L1 head and also swapped in the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif IMS so17xa for optimum photon management. This head rides on a E1e body and is controlled by a McE2S-30 in the Z52 LOTC. Would Don already have released his own guarded cap the light would have been able to stand on end, but alas no, it falls in this version /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. The machining of the light is SF quality from the outside, nothing more to say here, and McGizmo on the inside, which is also without flaw, as usual. The functionality of the McE2S and its components I will gladly leave to other threads, suffice to say it works perfectly. The real point of this light is the very small size of the L1 head where Don has succeeded to cram in all the necessary thingies to make one hell of a light.
This unit is a part of the huge E-Series modular light concept and all the components are interchangeable with the corresponding parts of various manufacturers. More about E-Series Modularity.
In your pocket it rides well, but on your keychain it looks and feels funny at best. Too big and uneven for keychain-purpose. One-handed operation is difficult but possible.
Possible Minor Problems:
- the spring on the McE2S on the earlier versions might be too strong for weaklings
4. L1 head LuxV on E1e
This is the same light as above, done by the same man, Don in this case, it has just a 5W W-binned LED driven by a BB600 in the guts and uses the McE2S-30 module in an E2D tailcap for stand-on-end capability and further carrying and mounting options. Ah yes, and it is Black HA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. The so17xa that is used is a special stippled prototype version that should enhance the 5W's beam, which we will see a few moments later in this show.
NOTE: this head can also be used with 2x123!
5. McLux-PR/T 5W on E1e
As Don never sleeps he has made another one for me, this time a PR/T head houses a W4V 5W LED driven by a BB500 driver. The head rides on the usual SF E1e which has its butt covered by the usual McE2S-30. It is basically the same set-up as the light above but uses a different photon-management-system (the PR, that is) and a slightly weaker driver. It is also a bit bigger and more difficult to carry in a pocket and outright impossible on any kind of keychain unless you are green and an Ogre /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif. The PR/T head matches the perfect quality of the SF parts quite well, IMHO it goes especially well with the E1e for looks and because it extends the small barrel a bit to make it easier to grab should you have big hands. It can also be run on a 2 x 123 set-up. The head is covered by a glass lens and fully o-ring sealed, of course, and it is HAIII. You can buy those as kits and the Sandwich Shoppe.
Possible Minor Problems:
- a little bit on the big side for 1x123
- slight HA mismatch with SF parts
6. VIP
Created by MrBulk with the help of Otokoyama as "machinist" and some unknown electronic wizard (georges80?). This is the biggest light in the comparison and is for pocket-carry only IMHO, no keychain, sorry. Build quality is very good with an aggressive knurling on lots of characteristic "ribs" for heat dissipation. Perfect HA-BK coating except the well known bare spot on the switch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. The unit came – yes, past tense, the show is over, no more VIPs are rolling off the assembly line – either with the so17xa or the Fraen LP optic; the reviewed one has the so17xa installed. The driver is supposedly a microcontrolled one, and thus the 3 offered brightness settings are all fully regulated. You choose the brightness via the switch on the barrel and activate the light with a Kroll clicky at the tail cap. The VIP stands on his butt with the infamous KingsCrown tailguard that allow an easy use of the Kroll while still offering good tailstand-ability and a hole for split-ring or lanyard attachment while having rounded legs to avoid killing your pockets. Of course the VIP is fully o-ring sealed. You definitely need two of your hands (that means all of them) to operate this light if you want brightness changes included, otherwise one-handed Kroll operation is perfectly fine. The brightness selector switch is hard to turn due to the o-ring seals in the beginning but will eventually break in.
Possible Minor Problems:
- quite large for a 1-cell light
- some people strongly dislike the Kroll (can easily replaced in case of failure though)
- the converter board hangs relatively loose in the body (at least in my unit)
- one little spot where the anodize misses at the switch (for the anal guys out there, you know who you are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
7. NexGen BB1000 in McLux-PR on E1e
The fabulous and elusive new board from dat2zip ... read more about it here.
This is a NexGen1000 in safe mode installed in a HA-NAT McLux-PR head driving a TV0J LuxIII. The tail is the E1e / McE2S-30 combo we know so well. The McGizmo-made PR head is of course top-notch quality as we all know by now, nothing more to say here. The problem of this light is foremost size ... it is a pocket-only light, just like the VIP, and it is a bit head-heavy aesthetically speaking without the guarded McE2S which is not yet available.
Otherwise this unit is one other choice of the E-Series modularity set-up with all the endless possibilities attached.
Possible Minor Problems:
- relatively large
- you'd really like to know what it can do in "unsafe"-mode ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
B. OPERATION ============================================================
Here are comments about the operation and beam characteristic as well as power of the light including remarks about heat and general usability. Comparative data about brightness can be found in chapter C.
Each cluster of beamshots is done against two reference units: an Arc LSH modded with an R2H and driven at 363mA which is slightly more than factory setting. Think of this unit as a slightly superior LSH. Low output is plotted against an Arc AAA standard without any modifications. In the high setting you have a "corona-shot" with overexposed hotspots that can then be viewed correctly in the "hotspot-shot" with less exposure.
In addition to that you have an outdoor shot at a bench and a table being roughly 5m away from the lights. As these pics are rather poor in quality (sorry), the coronas of the lights aren't very well represented. It is almost a hotspot-only representation. You can judge the beam of the light by looking at how brightly the target is lit (who would have thought of that? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) as well as how well the beam manages to penetrate to the trees behind (8m) and how wide the beam is looking at the grass.
Each light used a fresh Sanyo CR123, the batteries of the reference units weren't changed during the shootout.
Here are reference outdoor shots of the Arc LSH R2H and a SF L4:
Let's start with …
1. Jets22 Blackbird
This is a special one. It is a true flood light without the optic swapped in, and this is the version we are discussing here. Beamshots:
No real hotspot, really wide beam. It illuminates almost an entire room without having to move the light around and – quite important – without blinding you in close-up work. It is the ideal indoor light and fails miserably outdoor (unless it is pitch black) as a consequence. I'd call it a special-purpose light, this one is certainly not an allrounder without optic.
Operation is smooth and reliable … twist head for low beam, twist further for high and vice versa. The low mode is prone to some occasional flicker (why I do not know), but apart from that function is flawless. Heat is not really a problem, the unit is big enough to take care of excess heat when held in a hand. As with the old Firefly runtime on a MM+ is over an hour on high and much longer on dim which is sufficient IMHO.
The tailstanding ability is especially useful with this flood light to illuminate whole rooms.
2. Fire~Fly Mk II
Despite some possible problems with the 2-stage-switch mentioned above which have their resolutions the Fire~Fly is easy to operate: screw the head in for low and screw it further in for high output. The beam with the chopped-down NX05 is like this:
… similar to the real optic with more spill and a somewhat less defined hotspot, but still rather acceptable. Of course a reflector would do better (at least this is the consensus I gather), but the optic is OK. Centering the thing upon sandwich replacement is another matter though and might drive some of the short-tempered folks slightly insane /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Colour is pure white with a slight bluish tinge, the "HID-white" so many love.
Low Beam is clearly brighter than the AAA and it should be, since on high the unit heats up quickly and needs to be held firmly in the hand to prevent overheating. On high the Fire~Fly is brighter than the LS which is reflected in a significant loss of runtime to about 45 minutes in constant-on. If this is worth the price is up to you, if it isn't, just swap out the sammy for a weaker one!
3. L1 head LuxIII on E1e
This one is operated via the McE2S-30 tailcap. Screw in for low mode and screw further for high. At any given time you can depress the button for momentary low (if off) and high (if off or in low mode). No lockout is possible with this cap, although it is stiff enough to prevent too easy accidental activation. Maybe too stiff for weaker fingers when you happen to have the earlier versions without Don's custom spring. Although it might sound complicated, the operation of this tailcap is very intuitive and easy.
The BB750/TV0J combo launches a significant amount of pure white photons at the so17xa that does a very good job of redirecting them elsewhere, namely outside the front end of the light:
The beam can be called near-perfect which is astonishing for a little plastic device like this. The so17xa will shine brightly in our future, this is for certain. You get a mid-sized hotspot and a good corona for optimum general purpose lighting. This light is very bright in high-mode (think VIP) at the cost of runtime (35 min) and significant heat over time, so low-mode will be the level of choice most of the time, and with the 30 ohm tailcap it is clearly bright enough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. Sustained high mode is easily possible, but just like everyone else, the light has to be held in a cooling hand to maintain thermal stability.
4. L1 head LuxV on E1e
This is basically the same light as above. The so17xa it uses is a special one though, it is a stippled prototype that does well with a 5W to smooth out the beam:
There is a slight donut-hole visible, but not more than in all other 5W-applications we know off, including Surefires.
This light is a flood light, or almost so. It has a not-so-hot hotspot which is huge to compensate for its lack in power and a more than adequately bright corona. Throw is not the special ability of this light, but it still lights up a backyard nicely. Think of the beam as being a bit wider as the SF L4 and a bit less bright (on 1x123 mind you; this head can also run on 2 x 123 and it will be brighter then). In low mode it is very dim with a 30 ohm tailcap, dimmer than the AAA. One might want to change to a 22 ohm resistor.
The lot of light produced (IMHO this light has the most lumens in this test, but that is just a guess) has a price … a runtime on high of only 27 minutes and a lot of heat, but it can still be held more or less comfortably during constant-on for a full battery life.
5. McLux-PR/T 5W on E1e
Another 5W in a similar setting as above, but with a different photon management, namely the famous PR:
The PR does a very good job of focussing a 5W if one is inclined to ignore slight irregularities in the hotspot which do not affect the usability of the light in real life. Those artifacts can be eliminated completely with the usage of the older more stippled PR if you can find one. In this set-up the 5W is a medium flood beam which is very useful everywhere except when it comes to real throw.
It is clearly brighter than the 5W/so17xa combo while drawing the same current and having about the same runtime, although heat management is better in the larger head. It still should be hold in your hand when constant-on high, but the max. temperature is less than in the smaller lights. But so is your chance to fit it in a tight pocket /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
The 30 ohms of the McE2S is overly sufficient here.
NOTE: the BB500 / 600 / 750 with a 5W each draw about 1900mA from a single CR123, so this could be the maximum possible in this regard. But I won't say more since I have no clue about those questions … /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
6. VIP
Talking about the so17xa version here, so we already know it has a perfect beam:
Have I said it is pure white? High beam is very bright of course, but the pleasure is relatively short-lived because of the death of the poor battery. The medium setting is where the VIP really shines … still plenty bright and lots of runtime (over 3 hours depending on your light and battery, YMMV). The VIP is the light that runs longest with any significant brightness. Low mode will, according to Roy, endure at least about 60 hours or so (haven't had the patience to test it myself). There is a so-called dim-low which is the real low-mode and a high-low which is the emitter direct-driven. This anomaly of the low mode might annoy the anal souls of our community, so be aware of that before purchasing the light! When activating the light directly in low you'll often end up in "high-low".
You switch the brightness with a knob at the barrel which is stiff in the beginning but will eventually break in. Because of the form of the knob you always know the setting by touch in total darkness /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif. The actual on/off switch is the venerable Kroll at the tail of the VIP, there's not much to say about this one except that some do not like it very much. Should it ever fail it is easy to replace though, so no worries here either. This is a very intuitive way to operate a light and has all the possibilities we ask for. The only problem to this solution is that you need two hands.
Heat is no problem due to the size of the light. It gets hot, OK, but it won't burn down spontaneously.
7. NexGen BB1000 in McLux-PR on E1e
The most well-known combo of recent months on CPF … well, except for the driver /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. A TV0J in a PR driven hard --> makes a hot hotspot and huge corona. Same here of course:
Hottest spot in tournament, killer of everything. It annihilates the Arcs with ease as well as everyone else in this post /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. With the McE2S-30 it is slightly too bright in low-mode IMHO, but the right brightness is a subjective matter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Due to the intense spot this is not an allround light for me, but then again I know that you all love a piercing needle beam, so I'll shut up about this now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
As with the newer generation of converters (see also the VIP) the NexGen can sustain high mode for more than 45 minutes before falling out of regulation, and it is very bright (see below). Heat is not a problem with the McLux-PR head, but consequently, size is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif, although it is still smaller than the VIP.
Overall this is a real improvement in the 1x123 league (as is the VIP I suppose, but I have yet to see some hard data about this), and I am curious about the "full-mode" as this what we observe here is "safe-mode" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
C. COMPARATIVE DATA ====================================================
Here's the chart:
Keep in mind though that the variance between single units of the same kind can be quite large as is well demonstrated by Ray's (this_is_nascar's) runtime-plots of his various VIPs. Your mileage may and most certainly will vary. You can find this important insight in the reviews forum as a sticky.
For more detailed runtime plots have a look at the stickies in the revies forum, it is well worth it!
D. RANDOM GENERAL CONCLUSIONS ===================================================
- Green … that is what Luxeons produce to a certain degree when driven below spec, for example by a resistored driver in low-mode.
- White … is what we mostly see now when driven adequately as opposed to puke-green not so long ago.
- Progress … there is. Lots of it. I just had a look at one of my older reviews and I am astonished at the achievements in Luxeon technology (despite our constant whining /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif ) as well as perfection of our modders and creators.
- Heat … is still the price though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
- Multi-Level-Lights … now that we have the technology, we need more than one level of light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif! This allows for high powered lights (actually all of the reviewed units are quite scorchers) to be used as general purpose lights and reasonable EDCs.
- the so17xa is a perfect solution for 1W and LuxIII and a very acceptable one for the 5W if flood is what you want
E. CONCLUSIONS PER CATEGORY ================================================
If you are looking for a light that has …
… max. Brightness / Throw
The LuxIII in a PR is still king. In this post it is the NexGen1000, the competition doesn't even come close to this scorcher. Remember that this doesn't say anything about total light output in lumens though.
… the best Flood of Light
Jets22's Blackbird is the winner here followed by the 5W/so17xa combo. It won't get floodier than the Blackbird /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
… the longest runtime
The VIP is king. Not because of the high-mode, but because of the 3+h medium mode! No other light here can offer more than 3h at a relatively high brightness, and bright it is in medium, believe me!
… the whitest light
You can get them all, Luxeon lottery excluded from my considerations. Technology has improved and the LuxIII as well as most of the 5W are quite white nowadays.
… the smallest form factor
Choose the Fire~Fly or the Blackbird according to your needs. All the others are a significant step larger.
… no heat problem
Look elsewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif! On high, those get all quite hot, one more, one less. The coldest freezers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif in this comparison are the VIP and the NexGen. Low mode of course is no problem, so if high mode is not your primary target, you're good to go anywhere here.
… the highest possible build quality
You can buy them all. All of them are tough like a Drill Sergeants and are watertight.
… the least problems associated
Know that the 2-stage switches in the Fire~Fly and the Blackbird *might* cause annoyances one day or another. Otherwise there aren't any serious problems with all of those lights.
… stands on end
You can buy any of them provided you choose the now available McE2S-TK guarded caps of McGizmo.
… offer possibilities for further combinations
The E-Series-based units all fit in the big modular concept around the SF E-Series, McLux and Aleph Series as well as more parts of different manufacturers. The possibilities are endless. The VIP offers some accessories and the Blackbird has a CR2 body as well as a optic-option just like the Fire~Fly will have in the near future. The E-Series are still by far the largest platform here, but all the others have something to offer, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
… the least weight
Blackbird or Fire~Fly with aluminium head.
… has a clicky
The VIP is the only clicky in this game.
… is the sexiest light
For me that would be the black L1/E1e/Z61 combo without question. Although the butt of the VIP has a lot of alien sex appeal, too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif.
F. CONCLUSIONS PER LIGHT ======================================================
Jets22 Blackbird
You want a light mostly for indoor work, to check upon your little children without disturbing their peaceful slumber but with enough punch to light up a room nicely? Throw is something you've heard of but you cannot quite grasp the concept? And you are a class-act and want the best and classiest gear? Try to find a Blackbird then, there isn't any better for you.
Fire~Fly MkII
Your keychain is empty, and you want to equip it with something powerful yet small enough not to cause discomfort or embarrassing "misunderstandings"? Of course it should also have a long runtime option and be able to stand on tail, and an upgrade option for the brighter future with better LEDs would be nice, too? A true Jack-of-all-Trades then. Well, if you don't mind a somewhat compromised beam quality we have something for you here: the Fire~Fly MkII!
L1 head with BB750 TV0J on E1e with McE2S-30
The name doesn't shock you? Well, then welcome in the realm of the modular lights! This one will satisfy all your needs for photon emission in modern technology, and it opens the door to modular possibilities beyond your highest expectations! The only thing it cannot do is hang on your keychain. If this is not a problem for you, this mod will make you a happy camper!
L1 head with BB600 5W on E1e with McE2S-30
You find the hotspot of the LuxIII mentioned above annoying? No problemo, senor, use this light with a 5W head for a flood of beautiful light! A powerful flood that can later be swapped on a 2x123 body for even more flood and endurance if you are so inclined. You shouldn't have an aversion against donuts though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, since we are currently out of stipples prototype so17xa reflectors.
McLux-PR/T 5W on E1e
Compromise rules. For you, compromise is a lot of light, a useful flood, some acceptable medium throw and a big hotspot … then this light with its 5W/PR set-up is the ticket for you, Sir! You will have it all covered except long throw and long runtime. And of course size doesn't really matter that much, all men know that, so that it is no problem for you that this fellow is a bit on the larger side of 1x123 lights.
VIP
Where the name is a concept, and you are truly fitting in that concept. The VIP is an exceptional light with an exceptional design still meeting every usability criteria one could invent. Except size, that is, ahem. Where form and function converge into a unique product that can offer great performance in the runtime and beam quality sector as well as some punch but lacks a bit in the size factor. You have big pockets and you want it all … the VIP will satisfy you.
NexGen BB1000 in McLux-PR on E1e
It is throw you're after, and some nice flood for close-up illumination would be nice, too? Beam should be perfect? And you do not mind a head a little on the bulky side of life? Then we present this marvel with one of the best drivers in existence. It won't disappoint you, quite the opposite, you'll look in awe upon the powerful needle-like beam emerging from this beauty. And to top it all, it is an E-Series modular light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
In the end, I like them all. Great lights, all different. The problem is to choose …
... and that is what this post is all about: providing info about different aspects of lights so that you shall draw your own conclusion which one to purchase.
A member pointed out that one could feel my enthusiasm for the so17xa in a way that might be inappropriate and might impose my views of the ideal photon management on you. Sorry for that, I did not intend this. I, too, know the merits of concentrated throwing beams like the PR does produce, I just use them rarely, thus my preference for medium flood lights. In no way I think this is an absolute value! Please do not feel any intention in this direction on purpose from my side, sorry again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
bernhard
NOTE: the measurements of current and lux were possible because of the very generous donations of a light-meter by miciobigio and a DMM by milkyspit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif and /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif to these gentlemen!!!
