5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record attempt

Well it all started with Georges Led driver on Testosterone thread... here
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=629748&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1

Basically a driver that can handle 40 x 5W LEDs (fully dimable). Andrew has a battery that can deliver enough juice to power this array. Regarding heatsinking, 3 x CPU heatsinks should deliver plenty of heatsinking to make such a light a reality - or Andrew might have other ideas regarding heatsinking...

Anyway building such a light would result in a 5,000 Lumen flashlight - all in a fairly small size (the size probably of Andrews Megasonic) so this would be the brightest handheld flash light ever built - and would probably qualify for a Guiness Book World Record Entry.

As George pointed out, the problem is who would finance the 40 x 5w. An other question is who would design & assemble this monster.

I wrote to Lumileds and asked those guys whether they would consider donating the LED's in order to attempt to build this light - in return they would have their name associated with the light. They sent me back a form where they want to know more details... (which I think indicates that they are at least considering it).

So before I send them the form back, I would like to know:

Who would be interested in helping to build this light - I dont consider my self qualified enough to do this. My part would be getting the LEDs from Lumiled + admin with the Guinness people. What do you get if you help... well the only thing for sure, you get to play with a 5,000 lumen flash light. The Guinness book entry would probably be Candlewpowerforums, Lumileds and maybe the people that made the light possible. I have never done this so I dont know.. we will find out if we decide to do it and get what we need.

What is needed in terms of qualifications:
1) Someone who does the overall design of the light
2) Someone who designs the heatsink
3) Someone who produces the reflector+heatsink (if we don't use CPU heatsinks) + other parts that might be needed (lathe/mill)
4) Someone who wires everything together with the driver
5) Someone who designs/decides the reflector (reflectors)
5) Someone who documents the construction of the light in detail for everyone (photos, text etc).
6) Someone/or more who test the light and measure how bright it really is.

If there is anything else that would be needed just let me know. What do you think of the idea etc...

The long term use of this light my suggestion is to just temporarily lend it out to TRUSTED WELL KNOWN CPF users as well as the people who helped to build it. Of course who ever wants it would have to pay for shipping and they would be required to post here in the forum what they used this monster for.

So lets start a disucssion around this idea here and see where it goes...

This is completely out of my league... but man is this concept cool!!! I can't wait to see this one develop!

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Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Very interesting. What is the current record? And are you setting the record for a 5,000 LED flashlight or any flashlight in general?

[ QUOTE ]
mobile1 said:

Anyway building such a light would result in a 5,000 Lumen flashlight - all in a fairly small size (the size probably of Andrews Megasonic) so this would be the brightest light ever built compared to it's size - and probably qualify for a Guiness Book World Record Entry.



[/ QUOTE ]

I really doubt it. There are LED lights around that exceed 40 lm/in^3. To beat this your 5000 lm light would need to fit in a volume smaller that that of a cube 5 inches on a side. At the power levels you are considering, an HID based light would have a better shot at a lm/cube record.

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Well - the idea would be the brightest hand held battery powered flash light. There was once guy on CPF that used a landing light of Boeing and converted that into a Flashlight. The problem with that was that he needed a Backpack for the batteries. And I dont know whether that light ever existed...he never posted pics or more details.

I would like this light to be the size of a regular torch you can hold in one hand.

Doug_S: Well lm/cube is about efficiency - so to win that record the light wouldn't be very bright. I am more thinking about a light you can hold in your hands and that can pump out as much light as possible - over a reasonable amount of time (otherwise someone could just get a strong flash).

Regarding HID based lights - they need a lot of Watts - To get 5000 lumen you need about 120W. A Luxeon 5000 lu would probably need a lot less.

Regarding the current record and wether they would accept such a record, I am still waiting for an answer from the Guinness Book people - it takes them 10 to 12 weeks to answer requests.. so plenty of time to discuss it all...

The best HID (D990?) which Surefire is using in their Beast is rated at 3000 lumen, but Surefire tested it to be more like 2000 lumen. But other than that I havent found anything brighter (in torch/Flashlight Size).

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

I'm game! And, while I /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif to the knowledge and expertise of others, I'd volunteer my services to help with documentation of the project.

This certainly would be a cool project to be in on! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

I have a battery powered light that can potentially put out 10,000 bulb Lumens, running off 24 volts so the 5000 Lumen record would only apply to LED lights if you can make it work. My light is still in mule format,but I lit it up last night. 250 Watts of Hotwire Power, and I probably won't build it for sale, but there are multiple commercial lights that are over 5000 lumens based on hotwires and HID technolgy.

That landing light based light exists, x990's must be over 5000 lumens, several others are close at least.

Ginsengs Aurora is over 4000 with the initial Aurora1, v.2 is probably more.

Bill

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Wow, I bet that would give the megaray a run for its money... or maybe not.

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

[ QUOTE ]
mobile1 said:
A Luxeon 5000 lu would need only 40W+cooling and would be fully dimable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm... 5000lm/40W = 125 lm/W. When you get your next shipment of 125 lm/W luxeons could I buy a few off of you? I'm willing to pay a premium /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Bright incandescent bulbs don't necessarily make great lights, and two HUGE factors play a role.

I'm running it off 20 1/2D NiHH cells, cost of somewhere around 120 dollars makes it a LITTLE prohibitive for the real world!

It also has a LARGE, though tight, filament, and my little 2" reflector just can't get it done. It puts out a LOT of light, but it isn't focusable to any extent. Maybe Ginsengs experimental 6" will work, and I look forward to paying with it.

Bill

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Well the x990 are rated at 3200lu..

http://www.brightguy.com/x990.html

But the real rating is probably closer to 2000 (this is at least what Surefire tested)

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

I stand corrected!

Bill

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

At one time I had a 650W spotlight using the Osram 64535 20000 Lumen LE but I was disappointed with it's performance to much filament and not enough reflector so it was disassemble for the host to be used in HID testing.

As bwaites pointed out the 600W Landing Light is real I had the opportunity to play with it several weeks ago it has been thought out very well and more portable than you would think.

As for HID's or any type of LE very few consumers have the equipment to test for total Lum so we are at the mercy of the manufactures published ratings. 35W D2S automotive 4100K lamps are rated at 3200L the 50W ballast in my HID spotlight is rated to drive a D2S to 5700L I would hope these specs are somewhere in the ballpark of being correct /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Good luck on your project and let us know how it turns out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Later
Sway

PS: Nice cow in your avatar me likey /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Please remember something that everyone seems to miss. Smaller is better. A small point source of light (object) utilising a small reflector (equivalent to a positive or convex lens allows for a greater control and less optical abberations. In terms of first order or thin lens optics you can now with a far greater degree concentrate and collimate the light. Your small 2" reflector stands a far far better chance of irradiating the target than the 6' extended object that you are comparing it to. Don't lose sight of the laws of optics.

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

5000 lumens from 40 5W LEDs is possible. If you could locate 40 W-binned emitters, that would be 5880 lumens minimum.

200 watts from anything handheld... tough to imagine, unless you went with some crazy supercap, but that would provide seconds of power at best. This thing is going to be heavy no matter how you look at it since there's a minimum mass of heatsinking required in addition to whatever crazy active cooling scheme is used - likely to be several watts of itself.

It's really getting difficult to envision this thing as being easily portable. If it runs for more than a minute or two, it's going to get unbearably hot. Without some truly exotic cooling, it's going to be lucky to sustain a 10% duty cycle.

Thermal management - you might look into some sort of low-boiling point liquid to cirulate throughout the heatsink - something that will move some of the heat away from the emitters and into a radiator section where forced-air removes as much as possible from the coolant before it returns to the emitters.

Something along the lines of a metal version of the IMS 17mm reflector would provide for a blanace between flood and spot, and should be easy to manage for decent light collimation.

Of course, Leonard is right - massive parallelism only scales up so far. It's easier to deal with a single intense source than multiple dimmer sources.

Here's an array concept - using 17mm reflectors, 40 emitters fit well within a 6.5" diameter.

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Leonard,

I think I understand at least part of what you are trying to say, but larger reflectors(within reason) do a much better job of collecting, collimating and projecting the larger filaments in the higher wattage lamps than do the relatively small reflectors commonly used in flashlights.

Bill

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Let me figure out the batteries that would be needed.

Say, put 4 WX1S Luxeon V's in series for approx 25vF. Then parallel them with a total of 10 strings in series parallel. 10x700mA = 7 amps so 40 Kan high output NiMH 1400mAH AA batteries would be required. (two 20 AA packs in parallel)

Actually, get two NiCAD 1.2AH defibrillator batteries would give 7 amps easily and are very small. The two batteries would be the size of a large sandwich.

My concern would be voltage drop across the battery pack under load. With the AA packs, if the voltage sags under load, just wire up another couple of cells.

Since Luxeon V's put out almost a 180 degree beam, wouldn't a large Carly reflector work? With so many point-sources, somebody better get a calculator out.

If Luxeon will play the game and send the LEDs, I wonder if they have any YYAS bins in their secret vault?

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

I think a major consideration should be how to sink away the heat. The smaller the package is, the less surface you would have for the heat. If it gets hot enough that it can't be held in the hand, then can it still be considered a flashlight? Wouldn't that much heat melt the plastic reflectors?

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

I would be interested in helping with the design build. Maybe it would be enough just to produce the "brightest LED flashlight".

You might also find it useful to know that LL has shown prototypes of its 1,000 Lumen LED. I have seen it in white and ( I think it was green or cyan).

I have tried to purchase these, but no luck. The LED package is fairly small - looks a lot like Lux V on steroids - estimated size - 20mm diameter base, and similar height.

If we can get LL on board, they might supply these, and we can move beyond the 5,000 Lumen level.

Batteries, well, maybe a micro generator ?

Re: 5,000 lumen light GuinessBook World Record att

Oh no.. what have I done............! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

About the landing light, he did post pics of it. The sleeper must awaken.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As for heatsinks, it may be difficult to build this into a handheld formfactor - the sinks will make life very difficult. If any of you have seen the newer Pentium 4 heatsinks, those can manage up to around 80 watts of heat, and that is WITH forced fan active cooling. This would only cater to 16 Lux5s each and end up being bigger than the SF Beast. Although to be honest, if you could actually pack 16 Lux5s in and drive them at full power, you'd have Beast-level output - close to 3000 lumens.