How much damage can an E2D do?

I just recieved mine about two weeks ago....I really like it. In your opinion, how much damage do you think the strike bezel or rear impact end would do to an assailant? Surefire states it can be used as a "last-ditch" self-defense option, but was wondering if anyone thought by striking a criminal on the head with this would just tend to tick him off even more??? Anyone with real-life experiences??

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jbroker83 said:
Surefire states it can be used as a "last-ditch" self-defense option, but was wondering if anyone thought by striking a criminal on the head with this would just tend to tick him off even more???

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In a real "last-ditch" situation, I'd imagine that having a poor weapon would be better than no weapon at all.

My personal opinion... I usually have a hangun and a knife on me. If these both failed to stop someone from killing me, I don't think hitting them with my flashlight would help much either.

Flashlights don't damage people.....people do. (wink)

You might not do much damage to an assailant with an E2D. I on the other hand think that I could do a lot of damage with the sharp edges of the E2D. Not that I am a bada** or anything but my point is that training and determination goes a long way. The E2D has the potential to do some serious cutting/tearing. Anyone who takes the time to learn some basic hand to hand techniques, especially kubaton techniques should have no problem drawing blood from a bad guys head.

If you're not a professional like Scott, or highly trained you would be better off with some Fox 5,2000,000 (SHU) spray. Train yourself to use the E2D for illumination and/or startling, with the Fox in your other hand ready to go.

As an older person I want to avoid or minimize physical contact between myself and an attacker. Since a firearm is illegal in my gun-hating city I believe that the light/Fox combination is probably my best option. The Tigerlight OC is just too cumbersone.

Brightnorm

With the proper training and determination, it isn't hard to kill someone with a pencil. That said, the E2D has the potential for causing a considerable amount of damage. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif

Interesting responses. I am posing the question in general, but I'm very confident in my self-defense capabilities, having studied and attaining a black belt in Tae-Kwon-Do for many years. I also carry other defense options, but realize that there is definately a "level" of force at work. I personally think the E2D would do quite a bit of damage with a cartoid strike, near the throat area, and with the strike bezel, near the temple and upper forehead. This would in my opinion cause a pretty good size laceration, and cause substantial bleeding depending on where the bezel hit. I also believe the "butt" end to be a nice option if needing to have a hammer blow or overhand blow. My personal preference is Cold Steel's Koga SD1, it's a very nice impact tool and blunt so it won't penetrate skin.

As one poster already stated, an E2D is better than nothing, but in my opinion, not as good as something.

Humans are more resilient and tougher than given credit for. They also arm themselves before attacking you. They also gather a gang together. Lone, unarmed assailants are the exception. I get a front row seat to this stuff every night.

I think a sharp rock would make a better weapon than an E2D. I think a broken bottle would be somewhat better than an E2D. A Mag Lite would be much better and a tire iron would be brutally effective. If size is the concern, then folding knife and pepper spray.

Of course, there are other weapons I haven't mentioned but the point is to start with the most effective weapons and work your way down to the least effective.

What do you guys mean by "proper training"? I'm kidda interested in that, can anyone give me some advice where i should start?

I really find this thread disturbing. The premeditation of intentional injury I read here verges on the criminal. I can understand that a law enforcement officer is authorized to use lethal force in certain circumstances. However, the cute little animated icons of head bashing with flashlights tend to give it all away. It doesn't really seem to be about acheiving a legitimate (read legal) law enforcement goal so much as premeditating how to inflict the most greivous damage possible within the excusable parameters of your license. Nice.

Newbie nylite---you took my question completely wrong. I wasn't asking/posing a question to the "experts" on candlepowerforums because I was planning an assault on a fellow citizen...nor was I wondering in case I ever got mad and wanted to do damage to someone. If you notice in my first post, I talked about self-defense....something that is a very real and legitimate topic, especially in the world we live in today. I simply wanted to know what other people that own e2d's think of it and if they view it as a viable option for self-defense. When evaluating if the e2d is a viable and feasible option for self-defense, one must pose the question, "how much damage" or "how much stopping power" does it potentially have. There was no evil intentions by my post. Interesting that you can understand that an LEO is authorized to use lethal force in certain circumstances. Does that mean you think that citizens, under any circumstance, are not authorized? If a man broke into my house at 3:00 AM, I would assume it wasn't to get a "tour" or that he mistook it for an open house. I, however, would not wait for "authorization" to stop him from harming my family.

Hey NYLYTE (newbi), we are all a close bunch here and we tend to talk about topics that can help one another wheter it be about flashlights, family, life or the merit of self defense.

The topic of self defense is real and it does merit asking questions from folks that will give honest to goodness answers.


If you want real people (friends) you've come to the right place. If you want to troll, go else where.

Hey nylyte and welcome
You stated in your post "The premeditation of intentional injury I read here verges on the criminal". In fact it is crimminal. but it is also a reality. Therefore there comes times when ordinary people need to defend themselfs agains this premeditated intentional injury. There are many diffente self defence tools availale. All take a level of training and confidence in useing them. The e2d was designed with self defense purposes in mind. Besides your thread, there was no indication of anyone having premeditated and wrongful actions against another human being. If there is a situation that you don't agree with you and all of us alike are welcome to express your opinion. However i strongly sugest that you and everyone else including myself for that matter, read and understand the topic of discussion before stating an opinion.
jimmy

Geez guys... no need to rip his head off. Maybe he simply misunderstood the post in the first place or took it the wrong way? No need to call him a newbie and accuse him of trolling.


Personally I think it would be rather pointless. Sure it has a nice little edge to it but so does my car keys. Hell, even my cellphone could do the job if used the right way. As an absolute last resort, if running away isn't an option, then sure, but nothing I would rely on.

Nothing against NYLYTE, but he is a newbie. Says so right under his name. He's been here for two weeks and made 10 posts. He's a newbie, there's nothing wrong with calling someone a "newbie", everyone on here was a newbie at one time or another.

FWIW I think it has been pretty clear all of the talk in this post about using the E2D as a weapon has been about self-defense use only. It seems like the only person who mentioned using the E2D in an offensive capacity was NYLYTE.

-Keith

Yeah, no ill intentions towards NYLYTE, but I just wanted to clear up my post since he mis-understood my original intention.

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Lightraven said:
As one poster already stated, an E2D is better than nothing, but in my opinion, not as good as something.

Humans are more resilient and tougher than given credit for. They also arm themselves before attacking you. They also gather a gang together. Lone, unarmed assailants are the exception. I get a front row seat to this stuff every night.

I think a sharp rock would make a better weapon than an E2D. I think a broken bottle would be somewhat better than an E2D. A Mag Lite would be much better and a tire iron would be brutally effective. If size is the concern, then folding knife and pepper spray.

Of course, there are other weapons I haven't mentioned but the point is to start with the most effective weapons and work your way down to the least effective.

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Interesting topic which shows up from time to time. I did give in my 2 cents in this page here so I won't just repeat myself or babble on what I once said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


I do think Lightraven speaks some truth here, there are various types of criminals--some lone, unarmed mugger/looter are more likely to pick their 'target' depending time/place/person.

I have seen many footage and had close relatives that meet been robbed by people on motorcycle or simple grab-and-run. They tends not to cost damage to their target, and could even be 'discouraged' more easily than the others.(I had some friend who actually out-run the thief when she spotted him crouching on ground/hiding catching his breath! LOL)


But I also have seen/heard where situations are more intense and outcome is more grave. There are always two things you can do in those situation--fight or flight(which both are two natural human physical response to serious/stressful conflict). In short, survival means everything--what real physical harm does it do to you if you beg/plead your way out? Will you value some money/ego more than your and yours' loved ones' life? Common sense/calm mind often time might just save your day.


But in some case, where nothing could save your soul, and you might have to fight your way out--so be it. Then everything that could be improvised might help--a chair, broken bottle, brick/rock/sand, cell phone, pencil, hot drink...


Going back to 'E2D as a self defense' weapon, will I prefer E2D over a firearm/broken bottle/big knife if I really need a weapon to defend myself, probably no. But I also don't intend to EDC a broken bottle or a prohibited weapon so I would be caught togue-tighted with law enforcement here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


To sum up, comon sense should be your first line of defense and survival means (almost) everything(there are instances where others' lifes are valued more than yours, best example, fireman and police who had sacrificed in 911 which is truly honorable). Don't ask yourself what to do when you are surrounded in a dark alley, ask yourself why go in the first place. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

For self-defense purposes, Awareness, Common Sense, Mental Toughness, and Conditioning are probably going to be your best assets. Of course, Training, Skill, Size, Strength, Speed, Etal would also be nice to have.

If you can avoid a confrontation, avoid it - too many possible negative outcomes to a physical altercation and only a couple of good ones.

For E2D type specific training, do a search on pocket sticks, kubotans, yawaras, and/or koppo sticks.

3 ways to help end a fight in your favor - negatively affect the BG's ability to Move, See, and/or Breathe. With that in mind, how would you use your E2D?

Phil Elmore, whom I think is a member, has articles worth reading here: http://www.themartialist.com/archives.htm
Don Rearic, not sure if he's a member, has articles worth reading here: http://www.donrearic.com/main.html

Oh btw, no substitute for going out and actually getting sweaty and bruised up in a realistic training environment...

As a Brit and member of CPF I have read this thread with a lot of interest. Violence over here in many ways mirrors violence any where else in the world and is caused by many of the same things. Crime, drink/drugs, social, ethnic problems and so on. However,in my experience the option to take flight and run is seldom available and the victim is in the majority of cases taken by complete surprise by the attack made on them. The first few seconds of physical attack are the most crucial to the outcome. If reaction is slow or muddled then the aggressor will usually succeed and whatever his/her intentions will be achieved. Remember violence in crime is usually pre-planned and the aggressor has to psych themself up to attack the person he/she wishes to commit the crime against. The point being made here is that to respond to a physical attack you must be mentally ready to physically fight. Many folks male/female have never engaged in physical violence against another person and lack the understanding of how to suddenly respond with all their might against such an onslaught. The half hearted attempt to use a weapon or impact device such as the E2D aginst an aggressor already primed to fight is IMHO more likely to provoke a continued and perhaps more serious assault then not using it in the first place.

In essence what I am suggesting is carrying anything which would require training and the 'right mindset' to use, is pointless and may cause more problems than it could potentially solve.

Doug

a physically fit person with some self-defense training could break/fracture bones with a well-placed hit.

any metal flashlight that can protrude from your fist has the potential to inflict some pretty devestating injuries with an overhead strike tho.

pick up any small light and hold it in your fist and give yourself just a little tap on your head with it. that'll let you get a feel for how much area the blow would effect and imagine what a full-force, adrenaline-fueled blow could do.

think about things that have put a lump on your head in your lifetime. simple things like standing up too quickly and hitting your head on the something can leave a big lump on your head. a shot from a paintball gun can leave a lump on your head. a nickel-sized rock loosened by a climbing partner falling on your head during a climb can leave a nice lump on your head. so of course a full-force, or even near full-force blow from a cylindrical metal object will inflict considerable damage.

... right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

OK, a response from another newbie.
After 9/11, you have a lot less options for defending oneself while "in-transit to distant destinations". The E2d is allowed anywhere (so far) I've traveled where "folders" aren't an option anymore.
That said, if a situation were to occur where some type of "less than desireable traveling companion" started a "situation" in a "confined space", the E2d could be used VERY effectively to "distract" him and/or her while defending yourself and/or others.

Yes, the previous is vague for a reason. I dare to use the words that would convey my point more directly, but "someone" may read it and decide that flashlights are dangerous weapons and ban them along with fingernail clippers. Hopefully my point is still conveyed.

My E2d or one of my A2s are with me always.