Lacrosse BC-9009 versus BC-900: What differences, if any?

[TakeTheActive]

A heads-up for the owners of a LaCrosse charger.

While glancing through their respective manuals to locate their specifications, I noticed the manual for the BC-9009 is 35 pages longer than the manual for the BC-900...

Sadly, IMHO, this is a VERY inaccurate, misleading statement:

• The online manual for the BC-900 is formatted as 1 logical page per 1 physical page (8/8).
• The online manual for the BC-9009 is formatted as 4 logical pages per 1 physical page (43/11).
• FYI: The online manual for the BC-700 is formatted as 4 logical pages per 1 physical page (31/8).

Thus, the comparison solely based on number of pages is, for all intensive purposes (43 vs 8), invalid.

...Since all three LaCrosse chargers use essentially the same interface, the manual for the BC-9009 may provide additional information on the operation of both the BC-900 and BC-700...

Realistically (after a quick glance at both manuals, since the font is SO DAMN SMALL for my tri-focal eyeballs), La Crosse added a few pages of "CMA" 'Quick Summary' onto the end of the BC-900 Manual to create the BC-9009 Manual.

Sadly, again, with possibly the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing, they omitted / removed the CRUCIAL (IMHO) portion from the BC-700 Manual about holding the MODE button in for 5 seconds instead of 1 second. And, they still insist on keeping 200mA as the DEFAULT Charging Current and NOT conditioning cells until after 10 uses. Thus, as the purchaser of a La Crosse BC-900 in Dec 2006 and a Maha Powerex MH-C9000 in Jan 2009, I have to vote for Maha as the better company / charger to buy.

Finally, IMHO, introducing the BC-9009, with NO notable / substantial improvements over the BC-900, is a BAD business decision. But, from personal experience with both the La Crosse BC-900 and the Maha MH-C9000, IMHO, the BC-900 is better suiter for OLDer, non-LSD cells (with its 'Repeat-Until-No-Improvement' DISCHARGE/REFRESH cycle and no IMPEDANCE CHECK - High Internal Resistance Lock-Out; IMHO, the 'NULL' Lock-Out is justified - that cell is already SCREWED!).

...Here are the hyperlinks to all three:

Thanks for the LINKs to the BC-700 and BC-9009. I added them to the MANUALs section of my Sig Line LINKs.

 

[MarioJP]

Speaking of heating problems with this charger. How hot is too hot. I noticed when charging higher than 1000ma it gets hot on the bottom. Is that normal??

Firmware version is 35. I have 2 of these chargers and both have the same 35 version.

 

[drmaxx]

OffTopic answer

I noticed when charging higher than 1000ma it gets hot on the bottom. Is that normal??

Yes, this is normal. I usually place my charger vertical (place it on its narrow side) to improve airflow and cooling.
You should be able to touch the batteries anytime. If they are too hot to touch then you might have a problem.

 

[gag]

I am a novice (new BC 9009 owner / user) seeking help.

My understanding was that given any NimH battery, the charger would be able to display its present charge level in mah. I am not able to figure this out. It sems, the display during charging mode shows the accummulated charge level from the start of the charging process and not the actual charge level. Am I missing something?

Would appreciate help /tips.

Regards

 

[Mr Happy]

My understanding was that given any NimH battery, the charger would be able to display its present charge level in mah. I am not able to figure this out. It sems, the display during charging mode shows the accummulated charge level from the start of the charging process and not the actual charge level. Am I missing something?

Hi, :welcome:

You have a misunderstanding here. No charger or battery tester is able to calculate or display the current charge level of a battery in mAh without actually discharging it to find out.

The way the BC9009 works when you want to test a battery is to charge the battery up fully and then discharge it before charging it again. The charger measures how much the discharge was and displays that at the end of the cycle.

The charger can also display the accumulated mAh during charging, but this should not be taken as a reliable indication of the battery capacity. Some charge is wasted during the charging processes and so the charge fed into a battery will be an overestimate of the actual stored charge.

Hope this helps.

 

[MarioJP]

Also the accumulated charge just gives you an idea of how much charge was put into the battery. Now if some reason you had a power failure or accidentally the charger got disconnected, the accumulated charge resets, therefore I would not rely on it too much. I would monitor the voltage instead which that is more realistic of how much charge went in to the battery.

 

[TakeTheActive]

...I would monitor the voltage instead which that is more realistic of how much charge went in to the battery.

The Peak Voltage when charging varies depending on:

• Cell Construction / Manufacturer (SEARCH the CPF Archives for Mr Happy's posts on that topic)
  
  Reference: Some details on Sanyo's "Peak-cut control" termination scheme​
• Cell Health (Internal Resistance)

DISCHARGE CAPACITY @ 0.2C is what I use to 'Match / Rate' my cells.

 

[gag]

Thank you everyone for the responses.

It is very helpful

Regards

 

[TakeTheActive]

I am a novice (new BC 9009 owner / user) seeking help...

...Would appreciate help /tips.

Have you been reading the 'Help / Tips' located in the STICKY on the top of this forum's Index Page?

I'm especially partial to mine, , also available via my Sig Line LINK.

 

[RaVeN38571]

I thought I would everyone know that it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue. Happen to me today, charging 4 duraloops.

 

[Turbo DV8]

I thought I would everyone know that it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue. Happen to me today, charging 4 duraloops.

Pictures? Specifics of the charging parameters you were using?

 

[Light Sabre]

I have had 2 BC-900's version 3.2 firmware (the bad version supposedly) for a least 4 years. Haven't had any problems with it whatsoever. Makes me wonder what people are doing, or what kind of batteries (brand, age, mAh's, etc) that are causing the meltdowns. For AA's I always charge at 500ma or 700ma. AAA's at 200 ma. I don't leave batteries in the charger more that 12 hrs (usually) after completion of recharge. Chargers are in open air and on a hard flat surface so that they are well ventilated. My oldest NMH's are Rayovac 1000 mAh that I used in my first digital camera are recharged on the BC-900. They may be going on 10 years old. Don't remember exactly.

Just something to think about:

Is everyone using the AC adapter that came with the charger? Are they melting down in a high humidy environment? Low humidity environment? What's the ambient/room temperature? Do objects get placed on top of the unit when it's charging? Dusty environment? Near a computer monitor or tv set? Their magnetic fields may be affecting the charger.

 

[Phantom502]

I thought I would everyone know that it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue. Happen to me today, charging 4 duraloops.

I am curious as to what mA you charged at to get the meltdown and if you had any other problems with your charger.

 

[Bones]

I have had 2 BC-900's version 3.2 firmware (the bad version supposedly) for a least 4 years. Haven't had any problems with it whatsoever. Makes me wonder what people are doing, or what kind of batteries (brand, age, mAh's, etc) that are causing the meltdowns. For AA's I always charge at 500ma or 700ma. AAA's at 200 ma. I don't leave batteries in the charger more that 12 hrs (usually) after completion of recharge. Chargers are in open air and on a hard flat surface so that they are well ventilated. My oldest NMH's are Rayovac 1000 mAh that I used in my first digital camera are recharged on the BC-900. They may be going on 10 years old. Don't remember exactly.

Just something to think about:

Is everyone using the AC adapter that came with the charger? Are they melting down in a high humidy environment? Low humidity environment? What's the ambient/room temperature? Do objects get placed on top of the unit when it's charging? Dusty environment? Near a computer monitor or tv set? Their magnetic fields may be affecting the charger.

While some of the incidents may well have been attributable to the situations you describe, others weren't. The following post by SilverFox sets down some of the potential causes:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post1224844

More:

http://search.google.com ... meltdown ... candlepowerforums.com
.

 

[TakeTheActive]

...it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue...

From my (extensive? ) reading of the CPF Archives (and the minimal amount of details provided), I would tend to favor 'MOSFET Failure'.

• La Crosse BC-900 Meltdown Analysis (Technical) {2006} - willchueh - (Maha Employee)
  .
• BC-900 power supply discovery - jtr1962

 

[RaVeN38571]

I don't have any pic because I already sent it back and I am getting the Maha c9000 instead. I only had the charger for 2 days. So here is what happen. I did normal charging on all my batteries. I put them in set it for 1000mah and everything went fine. Most of them were duraloops. On the last charge I decided to do a "refesh". I was only going to let it do a couple of cycles. I set it for 1000mah charge 500mah discharge, nothing crazy. So I came back 4 hours later, and I notice that part of the lcd screen was discolored. Kinda black on one side. Then I noticed that one of the buttons had sunk down into the charger. That when I unplugged it and took out the batteries. They were hot, but not to hot to handle. Also they don't seem to be overcharged. Bays 1 & 4 the batteries tested at 1.34v, 2 & 3 were at 1.25v. The consistency between the batteries is weird.:thinking:

 

[Light Sabre]

While some of the incidents may well have been attributable to the situations you describe, others weren't. The following post by SilverFox sets down some of the potential causes:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post1224844

More:

http://search.google.com ... meltdown ... candlepowerforums.com
.

I read some of the above posts. When I use my BC-900's I never charge at 1000ma or above. When I had fewer NMH's I would charge at 200 or 500ma. Now that I have a lot more batteries I charge at 500 or 700ma depending how soon I need them or to have the charge cycle completed by time I get home or wake up in the morning. 500ma is the one most often used for AA's. Have been using 200ma for AAA's, but may bump that up to 500 now. I will check and see what the battery and charger temps are at various points in the charge cycle especially towards the end. I will now cold boot the charger before each recharge cycle.

 

[TakeTheActive]

...When I use my BC-900's I never charge at 1000ma or above. When I had fewer NMH's I would charge at 200 or 500ma. Now that I have a lot more batteries I charge at 500 or 700ma depending how soon I need them or to have the charge cycle completed by time I get home or wake up in the morning. 500ma is the one most often used for AA's. Have been using 200ma for AAA's, but may bump that up to 500 now...

WHY?

As I've posted *MANY* times before, KNOWLEDGE should surpass RULES! :thinking: DON'T BE A LEMMING!!!

CLICK on my Sig Line LINK and *READ*!

Run 'THE EXPERIMENT' (SEARCH for the LINK - I've posted it *MANY* times). Charge your cells at the HIGHEST CURRENT that TERMINATES PROPERLY and DOESN'T OVERHEAT the cells. Plain-and-simple... If you want a slightly FULLER CHARGE, lower the Charge Rate a notch. *IF* they then don't terminate properly, too bad. Either raise it back up a notch, or use a timer, or *TOSS* / RECYCLE those cells.

In my BC-900 v33, I've charged both OLD non-LSD and NEW LSD cells at *ALL* of the available charge currents without incident (i.e. well, really, I charge my *CRAP* cells at 700mA or less, and my ^GOOD^ cells at 700mA or more). IMHO (from reading the CPF 'Batteries Included' Archives), it's the 'marginal' MOSFET that's the problem - *NOT* the Charge Rate, or the cells. :thinking:

...I will check and see what the battery and charger temps are at various points in the charge cycle especially towards the end. I will now cold boot the charger before each recharge cycle.

WHY?

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Greta,

I agree. Herding Cats is *CERTAINLY* FRUSTRATING / UNREWARDING / FRUITLESS...

Thanks for that advice! :thumbsup:

Reference: Post #77

 

[TakeTheActive]

I thought I would everyone know that it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue...

Just out of curiosity, if you happen to own a VOM/DMM, what's the VAC at your outlet? :thinking:

 

[Turbo DV8]

When I use my BC-900's I never charge at 1000ma or above.

WHY?

As I've posted *MANY* times before, KNOWLEDGE should surpass RULES! :thinking: ... Charge your cells at the HIGHEST CURRENT that TERMINATES PROPERLY and DOESN'T OVERHEAT the cells. Plain-and-simple...

TTA, when you point your finger at someone, remember there are three fingers pointing back at yourself. I think your comment above indicates you are becoming too strict a disciple of your own "rules." I think you go a little off the dogmatic deep end when you state to use "the highest current that terminates properly and doesn't overheat the cells." Light Sabre states that he has been using two BC-900's to charge his batteries at his stated rates for four years with "no problems whatsoever." If his cells are terminating properly at 700 mA or even 500 mA on the BC-900, why should he use 1000 mA? It is understood that the reason the cell manufactures "recommend" 0.5C - 1C rate is to ensure the cell creates a large enough end-of-charge voltage drop for the charger to detect. To use any higher rate than necesary to achieve this subjects the cells to higher levels of heat unnecessarily. And the BC-900 does run hot at higher rates since it does not have nice, wide cell spacing like the C9000. How hot the cells run during charge also depends on ambient temperature. If I try to charge four tightly-packed Eneloops at 1000 mA on my BC-900, in my laundry room in the middle of summer when it is 90 degrees F in the room, the cells will try to blast past 127 degree F and the BC-900 will halt charging until it cools down. I also have a few ROV AAA Hybrids that failed to terminate at 200 mA, so now I just charge all the ROV AAA at 500 mA. The spacing of AAA is wider than AA, so heat does not become an issue as it can with four AA at 1000 mA. Maybe you charge in a nice cool room, and heat never becomes an issue at 1000 mA. But Light Sabre's cells are in good enough shape to trigger end-of-charge signal at 700 mA for AA or 200 mA for AAA, to imply he is somehow ignorant and demonstrating near-abuse to his cells by not charging at a higher rate is simply ludicrous.