The following is a post made by MJ (DallasA). It along with the follow-up posts to it were removed and preserved in the Admin forum until a decision could be made on how to handle it. I am reposting MJ's post but not the replies to it. I feel that if information is available that might contradict claims by others, then the CPF membership has a right to know
ALL of the facts... such as they are. This thread will be locked after this post. Further discussion of this topic should be taken to the Underground (link in the top menubar) as this all is sure to stir up quite a bit of controversy that doesn't need to disrupt CPF. Thank you all for your cooperation.
Here is MJ's original post:
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The moment some have been waiting for and the moment some should be " Very Concerned"!!!!!!
Hello Everyone,
Before I begging this post I would like to say this, I am EXTREAMLY UPSET! right now and here it is.
Last week, Test by LSI were posted in this forum, claming to be tested products of ours. These test indicated by a competitor of ours that these were Peak LED Solutions AAA 1 LED Ultra-Power ( 2 Units ) and a AAA 3 LED Hi-Power ( one unit )
These test results were documented here
http://www.arcflashlight.com/media/lsipeak1.jpg
http://www.arcflashlight.com/media/lsipeak2.jpg
So as stated by me I was on the phone with LSI " having a very long conversation" and to make arrangements to have our units tested by them out of my personal pocket.
We I spoke to the staff on Friday. They broke the cardinal rule " Confidentiality Agreement " I had given my word that I would not release the information they had told me. To that gentlemen I will still keep my word. How I will say it was very interesting news.
How ever after today's little visit and information I am highly thinking of breaking that promise on the gentlemen I spoke with today.
Now here is were this " LESSON" gets good!!!!!
Upon my arrival at LSI on Monday. Gentlemen ( A ) was there to great me. A staff member of mine and I took a short tour of this wonderful facility. And then was going over some information in relation to the test.
Well here is were it gets really really good!
Low and be hold out in the middle of no were. Were 2 of our product tagged and marked. In plain site for me to see. The funny thing was " THAT WAS THE ONLY PRODUCT LAYING OUT"
Kind of odd don't you think, why would the two units from test 20173 certified report above marked and tagged A & B. Be out for me to view, handle, and inspect. 2 MONTHS AFTER THE TEST WAS PERFORMED!!!!!!
Well, I now know the answer thank to Gentlemen number 2. the competitor was there Friday after my posting running test again, AND I CAN ONLY ASSUME THE REASON WHY WAS BECAUSE OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO POST TODAY WOULD GIVE Concern on "ALL" LSI TEST
Well that explained that weird case, on to the next shall we.
Well anyway gentlemen A ask me " HOW WHOULD YOU LIKE THESE TEST PERFORMED?"
You could just imagine the shock look on my face, and the it all start to make sense. I ask what do you mean?
Here is the most wonderful information for companies, very bad for the consumer.!
GENTLEMEN A QUOTE: "WE CAN TEST THE PRODUCT HOW EVER YOU LIKE." MJ WHAT? GENTLEMEN A QUOTE: " WE CAN TEST IT BY BATTERY OR WE CAN TEST IN WITH DIRECT POWER SUPPLY " MJ: WELL LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION THEN, THIS MIGHT MAKE A LOT OF SENSE NOW ON OTHER TEST. CAN THE VOLTAGE BE SPECIFIED TO SAY EITHER 1/2VOLT TO SAY 2.6 VOLTS.
GENTLEMEN A QUOTE: YES, WE CAN SET IT ANYWAY YOU WANT. MJ: LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION. CAN WE SPECIFY THAT IT BE TESTED ON A BATTERY THAT WE PUT IN THE UNIT AND LETS SAY THE BATTERY IS AT HALF THE EFFICIENCY CAN THAT BE DONE. GENTLEMEN A QUOTE: YES, WE CAN TEST ANYWAY YOU SPECIFY. MJ: WELL IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW, I WOULD LIKE THE TEST DONE AT DIRECT POWER AT 1.5V AND I WOULD LIKE THE REPORT TO BE DETAILED SHOWING THAT SO I CAN BE ACCUSED OF STICKING A LITHIUM IN THIS PRODUCT TO MAKE IT LOOK GOOD. GENTLEMEN A QUOTE: OK LET ME WRITE THIS DOWN.
IMPORTANT NOTE: You can call LSI to verify that " YES they can do the test any way you want " " In fact they have 4 different types of test with different price levels " Please don't take my word for it, please feel free to very this information.
This is also impotent information that will be understood further into this report. I took down the following.
3- AAA 1 LED Ultra-Power with ( very important Duracell copper tops )
3- AAA 3 LED Ultra-Power with ( very important Duracell copper tops )
Additional information: When I inspected the two units from 20173 test above. They were in fact Peak LED Solutions AAA 1 LED Ultra-power lug style body Type III HA. In side the units were the nice part. They both had Duracell Copper top batteries ( you will understand why this is important in a few min ) However the quality of care of these two units did not look so great in my humble opinion, and this very hard to do.
On with the rest of this report.
After I had left Gentlemen B called me. This is also important for the rest of this report. Hello my name is so and so, and I am the one that will be performing these test. Quote: I understand it you would like these test run the same way test 20173 was done. MJ: No I would like direct power supply at 1.5v. Gentlemen B Quote: OK. MJ: When do think this will be done maybe sometime tomorrow ( Tuesday ). MJ: I would like to come down and pick them up when they are finish rather then you mailing them to me. Gentlemen B Quote: that will be fine.
I am telling this just keeps getting better and better and deeper and deeper! Today is the day I really thought I need a shovel!
Upon my arrival to LSI today to pick up these wonderful test ( LOL ) I met face to face with Gentlemen B who performed the test. When I told him who I was he seemed kind of nervous, and of course my gut took over from there to my original belief that something smelled in demark.
Gentlemen B Quote: I had to perform your test on " A Battery" , we are not able to test LED that have a circuit. MJ Gut: ( Sense you test so many lights why did you not tell me that on the phone ) MJ: OK
Note: Gentlemen B was nice enough to show me the sphere with on of are heads on under direct power supply. What I saw was no so bright very dim. MJ Gut: ( OK now this is starting to look fishy )
Well I thought I would just have a nice conversation with this gentlemen B. Gentlemen B Quote: Someone has told us that the person that had 20173 test ( above ) is kind of miss using this information. MJ's Gut ( Who told you this???? How do you know this???? )
MJ: Well, I will tell you this there is a lot behind this story. MJ's Gut ( Guy still seems nervous ) MJ: Hay I see you smoke, so do I why do we go out and have a cigarette and talk. MJ's gut: ( OK, guy seems like he calming down but still a tad nervous )
MJ: Hey let me ask you a question? You know it is kind of funny when I came down here Friday and I see the product from 20173 just laying out in the middle of no were for me to see, but yet there was non of the other product that was tested the " SAME DAY" totaling 9 missing items from that batch.
QUICK NOTE: Yes, CPF members if you do the numbers there was a 9th mysterious product, and yes I know what is was and how it performed. Just to be a nice guy to the other manufacture, trust me you have nothing to worry about.
OK back to the report:
Gentlemen B Quote: Well, you were not espouse to see that, the reason why it was out was the people from test 20173 were here renting the machine by the hour doing a bunch of test, and could not get test 20173 to repeat the same results!!!!!!! MJ Gut: ( Ah! Ha! Makes sense now ) MJ: Let me ask you another question? Gentlemen B Quote: Let me ask you a question? I was searching and noticed that Peak LED Solutions has a Corporation in Las Vegas. MJ gut: ( Hmmmm why would you need to do a search ) MJ: Well let me ask you something, are you a " CPF member "Gentlemen B Quote: Laughing, Laughing, and more laughing. MJ's gut: ( OK, why would you be laughing when I say CPF member . This guy must know about CPF. Might be a member. Might be a lurker here ) Gentlemen B never responded YES or NO but just by his laughter I knew. MJ's gut: ( Time to get the shovel ) After another 15-20 min of polite conversation I left.
Important note:
There is one more very important peace of information in relation to our discussion, but I will save it for tomorrow morning. However I will share that Gentlemen B slipped and has confirmed my suspicions that much more.
SO NOW FOR THE HIGH LIGHT OF THIS REPORT!!!!!
Before I do here is were all this information fits into play. I was Ok with the test results at first until I started to study them closer. Something still seems off.
Let me show you. Look at the test if you note on both test Sample " C " on both test has a wired problem. Neither one drops in efficiency as fast as A & B. MJ's gut again ( Something just is not right )
Thanks to my step-son I found out why. So I like to take a moment and thank him for his meddling it finally paid off. I would also like to say I will never get on my kids anymore for play with things they are not to. Thank you David now go to bed!
Well this is what happen, My step son grabbed on of the sample units and was getting ready to turn it on when I said don't touch that it still has the battery that was used in the test in it.
MJ LIGHT BULB GOES OFF IN MY HEAD LIKE THE BRIGHTEST LED ON THE MARKET. MAN IT WAS BRIGHT!
I then rushed back to the office were I was going to have my engineering staff test the battery. LOW AND BEHOLD GUESS WHAT!
The batteries got switch!
The batteries in these units ( pictures below ) are Durecell "ProCell". WHAT? Were the hell are my Duracell "Coppertops".
Here is the grand prize information:
Testing each cell by the tag indication as follow.
20347A voltage reading on " Pro Cell " 1.509 CP reading with " Pro Cell " 52
voltage reading on "Toshiba " 1.498 CP reading with " Toshiba " 110
20347B voltage reading on " Pro Cell " 1.513 CP reading with " Pro Cell " 61
voltage reading on "Toshiba " 1.498 CP reading with " Toshiba " 114
20347C voltage reading on " Pro Cell " 1.536 CP reading with " Pro Cell " 49
voltage reading on "Toshiba " 1.498 CP reading with " Toshiba " 89
20346A voltage reading on " Pro Cell " 1.548 CP reading with " Pro Cell " 33
voltage reading on "Toshiba " 1.498 CP reading with " Toshiba " 41
20346B voltage reading on " Pro Cell " 1.532 CP reading with " Pro Cell " 23
voltage reading on "Toshiba " 1.498 CP reading with " Toshiba " 38
20346C voltage reading on " Pro Cell " 1.555 CP reading with " Pro Cell " 26
voltage reading on "Toshiba " 1.498 CP reading with " Toshiba " 36
NOW THAT IS A BIG WOW! What a Difference a cell makes! I let the Toshiba that was used run for 10 min prior to these test to keep it fare.
The problem is! And the reason I will be doing some serious screaming tomorrow is the Duracell " Pro Cell " Internal resistance is garbage as you can see from the above information in short these units provided LESSER CURRENT
Wow I feel like I just won the lottery! In plain English these test are poop, however if on the good point it give worst case. But it does go to demonstrate and a lot and I mean a lot of questionability into the accuracy of " ALL LSI TEST "
LOL…well in closing notes. I do love to learn a new lesson everyday!!
For Gentlemen B, because I will bet money you are reading this right now. I would highly recommend you get a hold of the owner of LSI ( your boss ) before I do first thing in the morning.
I will be making several phone calls and visits tomorrow and believe me no one is going to like the out come.
Now for a treat:
If there is anyone out there that would like to loan me their NEW ARC-P for about two weeks or less. I am willing to pay $200.00 + plus "any light" of your choice from Peak LED Solutions. Here is how this will work.
I will PayPal funds to the first person that says " they would like to have their light test "
I will also include fees for the light to be overnight to me, and I will pay for the entire test and then return the unit to you in the same condition I received it with the Flashlight of your choice from Peak LED Solutions.
I ask that anyone interested live in the USA and have the light available to be shipped with in 24 hours of transfer of funds, and you need to have a PayPal account.
After you make your post please Email me at
[email protected] with your information and PayPal address! Thank You in advance for you help!
Loving to learn something new everyday!
Turn on your local CPF Underground for up coming events!
Have a Great Night Guys!
MJ
Test Results:
http://www.peakledsolutions.com/images/LSI20436.jpg AAA 1 LED Ultra-Power
http://www.peakledsolutions.com/images/LSI20437.jpg AAA 3 LED Ultra-Power
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