Why you no longer own an HDS

[Hogokansatsukan]

Obviously I still own one... or two HDS lights. It really boils down to personal preference. For many, a different light is "good enough" when it comes to reliability and durability. I doubt most owners of HDS lights will die if their light stops working. I won't. But that said, I've been through enough crap in my life where I have come to detest equipment failure. If I have a tool, the damn thing better just work when I grab it. I have kept an emergency kit (otherwise known as a bug-out-bag) since just after the Hanshin earthquake. I have found there are generally two types of people putting emergency equipment together. The first group, and much more prevalent, buy some of the cheapest gear in the bag thinking in all likelihood, they will never use the gear. Then there are a few like me who think that if I DO need to use this gear, I want it the best that is out there, because if I'm digging into the bag, things have gone South in a bad way. If you have read the book "172 Hours" about Aron Ralston who had to amputate his own arm to get unstuck from a boulder that trapped his arm in the Moab. well, he had to do it with a cheap multi-tool that was given to him by a friend. The knife was so dull it wouldn't cut the skin, and he literally had to stab his own arm off with it. Now, what would he have paid for a Sebenza, a MicroTech, a Benchmade... in that circumstance?
There are many lights that are "good enough" for most people, especially considering the cost.
Even for Henry, the HDS isn't "good enough" which is why it is constantly getting updated and built tougher. He didn't start making flashlights so that he could make money. He started making flashlights so he could have the light he wanted for caving, and that has continued. That's a huge difference... Making something for money vs. making it for your own use where if it fails (the light), you die.

 

[scout24]

And that, sir, is worth paying for. In my opinion, of course. I have brighter lights. I have cheaper lights. I have a couple more expensive lights. I don't think I have tougher lights.

 

[chaoss]

Sold my last one a few months back. Too large for EDC (for me). Bought an Aeon Mk III and have not regretted it at all.
Henry's lights are absolutely fantastic and his customer service is top notch. That said, if the light is too large ( again, for me) i am less likely to carry it daily.

 

[gurdygurds]

Sent you a PM sir. Not sure if I'm supposed to as I've read your group buy\fight club rules

Obviously I still own one... or two HDS lights. It really boils down to personal preference. For many, a different light is "good enough" when it comes to reliability and durability. I doubt most owners of HDS lights will die if their light stops working. I won't. But that said, I've been through enough crap in my life where I have come to detest equipment failure. If I have a tool, the damn thing better just work when I grab it. I have kept an emergency kit (otherwise known as a bug-out-bag) since just after the Hanshin earthquake. I have found there are generally two types of people putting emergency equipment together. The first group, and much more prevalent, buy some of the cheapest gear in the bag thinking in all likelihood, they will never use the gear. Then there are a few like me who think that if I DO need to use this gear, I want it the best that is out there, because if I'm digging into the bag, things have gone South in a bad way. If you have read the book "172 Hours" about Aron Ralston who had to amputate his own arm to get unstuck from a boulder that trapped his arm in the Moab. well, he had to do it with a cheap multi-tool that was given to him by a friend. The knife was so dull it wouldn't cut the skin, and he literally had to stab his own arm off with it. Now, what would he have paid for a Sebenza, a MicroTech, a Benchmade... in that circumstance?
There are many lights that are "good enough" for most people, especially considering the cost.
Even for Henry, the HDS isn't "good enough" which is why it is constantly getting updated and built tougher. He didn't start making flashlights so that he could make money. He started making flashlights so he could have the light he wanted for caving, and that has continued. That's a huge difference... Making something for money vs. making it for your own use where if it fails (the light), you die.

 

[Fireclaw18]

When searching for your next light consider the LED selection an important part of the decision.

One other thing I have learned with using LED flashlights for over 8 years is that the LED emitter selection is important. In the first few years, I wanted a bright light that could illuminate at a distance. After several years I got tired of the eyesore of those LED's, especially inside the house, as they had a blue tint to them. The blue tint washed out the rich colors of wood furniture, green plants, and red flowers. As a result I started learning about Color Rendering and the Color Rendering Index. I found that the nichia 219B and probably the nichia 219C emitters provided illumination that kept the richness of the brown, green, and red colors without sacrificing too much distance illumination. Now when I look at light beams I distinguish between the "color wash out" LED's and the LED's that illuminate and keep illuminated colors rich and true.

CRI is nice, but personally, there are other factors that seem to make a much bigger difference in how pleasing I find the light outputted by a flashlight:
(1) Total lumen output
(2) Tint (I prefer 4000-4500K)
(3) Below the black body line (rosy tint instead of green tint)
(4) CRI ... in a distant last place.

I have 90 CRI lights that I hate simply because the output is too green or too cool. I prefer a creamy rosy tint such as that from XPL HI 4D or 5D.

 

[Daniel_sk]

I was on the verge buying one several times - but I can't justify the size, it's just too big for a 1x CR123A. A good clip option would be nice too.

 

[gurdygurds]

Thanks again for your thoughts everyone. I think my money and other lights are safe right now. If there is ever a pass around maybe I can get my hands on one and see what all the fuss is about.

 

[StandardBattery]

I don't ever intend to sell my HDS lights. I may add more.

That said, I will say the reason I am not carrying my HDS more frequently, and why it makes it into my bag more than into my pockets is the lack of a clip. Let's not even consider the existing clips out there to be options, because frankly they are an upsetting pairing for such a good light.

The Rotary might possibly be one of the best EDC lights ever invented. The UI is nothing short of flawless. However, with its fat, 1" diameter body and lack of a pocket clip, it can be an uncomfortable carry in many pants and is hard to deploy. Holsters are great and available if you like 'em, but I'm just not much of a holster kind of guy.

I think this captures my basic view as well. I have a few of them, and a few NovaTacs, and they are a wonderful light with a wonderful UI. Add an 18650 tube for an insane price though and all the issues are increased significantly. I use mine around the house, and occasionally one of them gets to go outside. I've adapted to Zebralights and while they don't quite have all the good, I have no issues with them and they give me everything I need in an EDC light in spades. So while HDS came close, Zebralight killed them in everyday usage and practicality. I do miss the HDS from time to time and have to pick it up. So close, yet so far. The masterpiece that almost made it to mainstream. I often wonder if the owner of Zebralight felt the same before he decided to take matters into his own hands. Maybe for my next big birthday I'll get another HDS to keep the dream alive.

 

[Stoneking]

Used to carry HDS everyday, now that I've found the BOSS it's very hard to go back to carrying my HDS.
I will never get rid of my rotary though, hoping the next group buy goes through. A better rotary clip would make me carry it more.

 

[gurdygurds]

THIS ^^ was a response that gets me. The little Zebra Sc53C truly does everything I could need a light to do, and from what I'm told they're quite durable just nowhere near the sherman tank build of the HDS. Really with this combo below and a few E01s I am not lacking at all. EDIT: (at least this is what I'm telling myself) Curiosity is a son of a gun though! Thanks Standard!

Untitled by Six Pound Cat, on Flickr

I think this captures my basic view as well. I have a few of them, and a few NovaTacs, and they are a wonderful light with a wonderful UI. Add an 18650 tube for an insane price though and all the issues are increased significantly. I use mine around the house, and occasionally one of them gets to go outside. I've adapted to Zebralights and while they don't quite have all the good, I have no issues with them and they give me everything I need in an EDC light in spades. So while HDS came close, Zebralight killed them in everyday usage and practicality. I do miss the HDS from time to time and have to pick it up. So close, yet so far. The masterpiece that almost made it to mainstream. I often wonder if the owner of Zebralight felt the same before he decided to take matters into his own hands. Maybe for my next big birthday I'll get another HDS to keep the dream alive.

 

[archimedes]

Like a Sebenza, they are something that you may want to actually try out first, before deciding whether or not it may be suitable.

They might not seem to "make sense" looking at the specs (and the price) on paper, but you will know rather quickly if it is right for you, or no.

And if not, usually little trouble and minimal loss to flip, in any case :shrug:

 

[HighlanderNorth]

Regarding LED lifespan.
My recollection is that LEDs run slightly above spec rarely burn out. Instead they just get dimmer.

Personally, collecting and upgrading lights is a hobby. I don't care if the LED in a higher power light only lasts 20,000 hours instead of the manufacturer specced 50,000 before it dims to 70% of its original output. I'll have replaced the light with something better long before that ever happens. Unless you're planning to get one light and use it for 10+ years without ever upgrading I wouldn't worry about LED lifespan. Chances are other parts of the light like the switch will wear out long before the emitter dies.

Regarding HDS
The main reason for having an HDS is when dependability counts. If you're going into a situation where your light absolutely must work, and where it might be subject to abuse, then you want something like an HDS which can take a beating and still work. HDS is a classy design with slick user interface and small enough for EDC ... and unlike most of the competition it is TOUGH! (so I hear... don't own one myself).

On the other hand, if your light is primarily just a pocket toy and you're not planning on going on any caving expeditions, you might want something that has more lumens to impress your friends. Or something that maybe just weighs less while sitting in your pocket. If that's your primary use, then you don't need an HDS... get something like a Zebralight or Emisar D4.

If you want a work light that can survive drops while being much cheaper than an HDS, you could try a Rayovac Indestructible. Too big for EDC, but supposedly they have 30m drop resistance in a light that costs less than $20.

Good points. The reality is that the vast, overwhelming majority of LED's in compact flashlights are NEVER going to run anywhere near the amount of daily time that a household LED bulb will be expected to. We aren't going to switch our lights on shortly after dark and leave them on for 3-6-12 hours straight. But even a 20.000 hour home LED bulb could run 3 hours straight, every night of the year, and STILL last 20 friggin' years, if it wasn't damaged in some other way.

So, even if your 50,000 hour flashlight LED loses 60% of its total lifespan in run time hours because it was run on it's 500L turbo more for a few minutes occasionally, you would STILL get FAR more than 20 years of lifespan from that LED than you would with a 20k indoor bulb. :thumbsup:

Its for that reason, plus the sheer convenience of being able to click on a 450-550L turbo mode occasionally, that I think the HDS should have a higher brightness option, but with proper education on reduced battery life and heat, as well as the slight odds that occasional turbo usage 'could' reduce the LED lifespan.

 

[scout24]

Here's a thought. How about being able to unlock a 500lm output "Turbo"" level in the options menu? 30 seconds runtime or so, kind of like the current one level stepdown battery saver mode. Make it available with RCR123's only for the current draw, and entirely at the owner's discretion? This may make those clamoring for more output happy without seriously hammering the LED with current or heat? It would seemingly be akin to adding one more step to the existing 24 but it would be a user selectable level 25.

Edit- I'm sure 9 people have thought of this, and it's probably in this thread. Thinking out loud before coffee...

 

[bykfixer]

PK likes to say "find me 100 people that'll buy that and I'll build it".... sometime later he'll say "find me 10 who agree and I'll do that"...."just 10, betcha can't" lol.

Some'll want 45 seconds.. others a minute. Some, 500, others 750... rosey, or yellow, pure flood or pencil beam.... 18mm or 16mm etc etc

 

[scout24]

Yup. Always...

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

PK likes to say "find me 100 people that'll buy that and I'll build it".... sometime later he'll say "find me 10 who agree and I'll do that"...."just 10, betcha can't" lol.

Some'll want 45 seconds.. others a minute. Some, 500, others 750... rosey, or yellow, pure flood or pencil beam.... 18mm or 16mm etc etc

This is exactly right. The HDS is what it is, and has the following that it does for the same reason other best in class products do. It will never be "the light that makes everyone happy" as that is simply impossible. More throw, brighter output, deep carry clip, more flood, less flood, etc. etc. etc.
Why can't the user decided if they want to fry the LED themselves? Lifetime warranty. Not 1 year, 90 days, etc. etc. etc. (just saw "the King and I" so kindly excuse the etc. etc. etc.)

Really, other than the two lights, Clicky style and Rotary style, there isn't much difference except in programming of the lights in their basic form. Why? Henry has put all his time into perfecting those rather than trying to grab market share by making 37 different bodies. Some think the light is too large, while others put on the 18680 tube feeling that is the perfect size. Henry doesn't try to please all the potential customers... he tries to please himself with what he engineers and makes.

I am the "bug in his ear" though and do bring all these things up. But the light will NEVER change at the expense of the durability the light is known for.

The light is expensive. Everything about the light that can be made in the US out of US parts is. All the vendors we deal with are US companies. All the machining of parts is done in the US out of US sourced metals. Each and every light is programed and calibrated by either Henry or myself. When HDS says .02 lumens, it is not what other companies are doing by simply extrapolating data and stating it... HDS is CALIBRATED at .02 lumens (also, the FL1 standard says nothing about lying about levels in lights... only maximum, and there is a whole lotta lying going on!).

There is a huge difference in what is on paper and what the reality of something is. LED spec sheets are notorious for this... as are several other flashlight companies. I gave a friend of mine a 250 clicky to try out, and after a few weeks he stated that he couldn't believe it was only 250 lumens. I told him it was because it really was 250 lumens and that he had been lied to so long it altered his perception. One thing HDS does, is that it is honest with what the light actually does. Burst mode for example. HDS tells you the light steps down from 325, 250, etc. etc. etc. Other companies lights are programmed to step down as well... but they would have you believe the run time from the FL1. Most people won't educate themselves on the FL1 standard, or even how the eyes work in a logarithmic fashion. I've always thought of the HDS as the "thinking man's light" because it takes some education in these things to fully understand the light.

Most flashlight buyers only care about output (this is always confirmed by the first question anyone asks about a light which is "how bright is it?) They have no concept of the G-protein coupled receptor in their rods that they just may not want to photo bleach every time they turn the light on i.e. destroy their night vision.

While the specs on paper show one thing, the subjective part can't be known by you, until you actually use one. Is it too big, too small, just right? Is it too heavy? Is it bright enough? Is it easy enough to use? All subjective and will change from one person to another. I would highly suggest getting your hands on one to test out. Also, and this is directly from the HDS Home Page:

"HDS Systems offers a 30-day money-back return policy. Returns must have been purchased directly from HDS Systems and must be returned postage paid in new condition with the original packaging and a copy of your invoice. Please tell us why you are returning the item"

So there really isn't a good reason not to try one... at least for 30 days.

 

[carrot]

Henry doesn't try to please all the potential customers... he tries to please himself with what he engineers and makes.

Honestly this is what makes HDS such a good light. Any product that is designed to please everybody... will be mediocre for everyone rather than perfect for some.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

My reasons:

1. Extremely expensive. I can buy a handful of nice Zebralights for the same price as one HDS. Shipping alone (to Canada) is almost as expensive as a Zebralight!

2. Mediocre output. Even though I don't often use 1000+ lumens on my lights, it's nice to have the option when I want it.

3. It seems optimized for CR123 batteries. Yes, I know there's some add-on rechargeable options, but they add even more to the already very high price.

4. I don't care if it's made in USA, since I don't live in the USA.

5. Slow delivery time. I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but there was a time when wait times were ridiculously long. That may be great for the company, but not so great for potential customers.

6. I don't need a light to last a lifetime, because in a few years technology will make it seem obsolete. Yes, I know it will still be a great light, but newer options will be better.

7. I fear there might be some hypnotic chemical on the coating of the light, which turns customers into rabid fanatics about the light. MiB tech?

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Did you actually have an HDS that you no longer own?
This is the premise of this thread, I believe. And it is a point well taken. It sometimes really helps to actually give it a chance before a well-thought-out rejection. It has been tempting to me to make comment on this excellent thread but having never owned one, kept silent. It could also be said that this discussion really goes beyond HDS to include other flashlights and their design philosophy. Thanks gurdygurds for starting this conversation.

My reasons:

1. Extremely expensive. I can buy a handful of nice Zebralights for the same price as one HDS. Shipping alone (to Canada) is almost as expensive as a Zebralight!

2. Mediocre output. Even though I don't often use 1000+ lumens on my lights, it's nice to have the option when I want it.

3. It seems optimized for CR123 batteries. Yes, I know there's some add-on rechargeable options, but they add even more to the already very high price.

4. I don't care if it's made in USA, since I don't live in the USA.

5. Slow delivery time. I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but there was a time when wait times were ridiculously long. That may be great for the company, but not so great for potential customers.

6. I don't need a light to last a lifetime, because in a few years technology will make it seem obsolete. Yes, I know it will still be a great light, but newer options will be better.

7. I fear there might be some hypnotic chemical on the coating of the light, which turns customers into rabid fanatics about the light. MiB tech?

 

[gurdygurds]

I started it mainly to see WHY people tried them and decided to move on. I can be an indecisive weirdo and sometimes when I hear the experience of others something will resonate with me and I know that it's something that may also happen to me. I was chatting with Infrnl about some MDC lights and realized that when I tally them all up, I've had a silly amount of different MDC lights come and go through my hands. I've never owned an HDS but feel like if I don't at least handle one I will keep thinking about them. I don't want a load of cash tied up in a bunch of flashlights, and I also don't want a load of lights sitting around, so I always sell in order to fund.

Did you actually have an HDS that you no longer own?
This is the premise of this thread, I believe. And it is a point well taken. It sometimes really helps to actually give it a chance before a well-thought-out rejection. It has been tempting to me to make comment on this excellent thread but having never owned one, kept silent. It could also be said that this discussion really goes beyond HDS to include other flashlights and their design philosophy. Thanks gurdygurds for starting this conversation.