WOOHOO!!! NEW QUARKS ARE HERE!!!

[get-lit]

S2 Lumen = R5 Lumen x 1.07

Quark Mini 123
R5 Lumen = 189 OTF Lumen
S2 Lumen = 135 ANSI lumen
Substitute: 135 ANSI lumen = 189 OTF Lumen x 1.07
Solve for ANSI Lumen: 1 ANSI lumen = 1.498 OTF Lumen

Quark 123^2 Turbo
R5 Lumen = 230 OTF Lumen
S2 Lumen = 200 ANSI lumen
Substitute: 200 ANSI lumen = 230 OTF Lumen x 1.07
Solve for ANSI Lumen: 1 ANSI lumen = 1.2305 OTF Lumen

hmm, the conversion factor is inconsistent across the lights.. so basically it makes no sense :scowl:
Either ANSI lumen has no direct relation to OTF lumen, or there were >20% measurement errors among these four lights.

 

[HKJ]

hmm, the conversion factor is inconsistent across the lights.. so basically it makes no sense :scowl:
Either ANSI lumen has no direct relation to OTF lumen, or there were >20% measurement errors among these four lights.

As 4Sevens has said, the OTF is measured at power on, before the led heats up, ANSI is measured after 3 minutes.
The conversion factor will be depend on how hot the led gets, i.e. how much power is supplied to it and how good cooling it has. This makes it impossible to make a general conversion factor, even the different modes on a light will have different conversion factors.

 

[palimpsest]

hmm, the conversion factor is inconsistent across the lights.. so basically it makes no sense :scowl:

I don't know if the difference in the conversion factor can be due to this but if you read the linked message in the message #2 of this thread:
"One more thing, the Mini's are voltage boost types and are more sensitive to the LED's Vf. If could be that the S2's have a bit higher Vf. I'll have to check on that".

 

[wantsusa]

it could also be that since the mini is so small that the head heats up a lot more which can bring down the lumens for the led

 

[Gaffle]

It is weird that 4Sevens has started this ANSI rating. A fresh startup of OTF lumens was fine enough for me. Now we have measurements popping out as to how much ANSI is vs OTF.

Once this ANSI setup is in use doesn't that make OTF lumens obsolete? If your light looses lumens after it is on for 3 minutes, then the lights OTF lumens aren't really valid. I'm sure that stands for most lights. Both of the sphere stickies in this LED forum show what would be the ANSI rating for a lot of lights.

ANSI has hijacked this thread.

I still think that any upgrade to any light is good. Go Quark go!!!

 

[flatline]

so, put simply, a 7% brightness increase gives you well below a 7% throw increase.

Yes, after my initial post, I realized my statement was dreadfully wrong and posted a follow-up.

Although I'm not sure I follow your reasoning about power-density. I'll come back and digest it later when I'm better rested.

--flatline.

 

[wyager]

Yes, after my initial post, I realized my statement was dreadfully wrong and posted a follow-up.

Although I'm not sure I follow your reasoning about power-density. I'll come back and digest it later when I'm better rested.

--flatline.

Yeah, it wasn't directed at you, just doing a proof. :nana: And basically, the power density calculations just replaced lumens with mW. They're more or less interchangeable units in this scenario. I could have done lumens/square foot, but it was just easier to use mW for me.

 

[Burgess]

It is weird that 4Sevens has started this ANSI rating.

Ummm . . . .


Just so you know, 4Sevens did NOT start this ANSI rating.



_

 

[mr.snakeman]

David didn't tell us what tint he got, the XP-G R5 were 1A IIRC and I guess, he got the same one here. If he got the same tint-bin, the S2 is exactly the same emitter, just more powerfull.

Here's a Cree tint chart :

http://img199.imageshack.us/f/ansiwhite.jpg/

In theory those emitters are pure white, but in reality white is a mix of red, blue and green . The light emitted by a LED is blue and the phosphor acts like a filter and changes the light to white. To reach pure white, teh phospor must be present in th exact quantity and exactly spread out. Quite a difficult task I guess...

As I think the 1A is too green (I have a bunch of Ti Quarks and most of them suffer from this malady) I would like to see what the 1D or 2A or 2B tints look like. If the S2 is 1A then I´ll pass on these.

 

[csshih]

lol would someone please change the title? it will mean absolutely nothing in a week or so after it's buried.

 

[defloyd77]

As 4Sevens has said, the OTF is measured at power on, before the led heats up, ANSI is measured after 3 minutes.
The conversion factor will be depend on how hot the led gets, i.e. how much power is supplied to it and how good cooling it has. This makes it impossible to make a general conversion factor, even the different modes on a light will have different conversion factors.

This is pretty much correct, unless you are a genius and can come up with a formula that ties in overall efficiency, heatsinking mass, heatsinking surface area, drive level, environmental temperature....well you get the point. Anyone care to take a stab at that one?

 

[kaichu dento]

As I think the 1A is too green (I have a bunch of Ti Quarks and most of them suffer from this malady) I would like to see what the 1D or 2A or 2B tints look like. If the S2 is 1A then I´ll pass on these.

I'd suggest at least waiting until Selfbuilt, or some of the other better reviewers get their hands on one. Personally I don't like anything cooler than 5A for general purposes.

 

[metawaffle]

All my Quarks were warm or neutral, until last week when I finally decided to order a 123x2 in cool... just in time for the S2 release

Sorry, little Q123x2 R5, please don't take it personally when I look at you in dismay on your arrival... :nana:

 

[shark_za]

ANSI lumen will relate differently to OTF depending on the heat sinking of the LED.
3 minutes in affects some lights more than others.

 

[Henk_Lu]

As I think the 1A is too green (I have a bunch of Ti Quarks and most of them suffer from this malady) I would like to see what the 1D or 2A or 2B tints look like. If the S2 is 1A then I´ll pass on these.

Unfortunately, you're right... :shakehead

Most manufacturers seem to go with 1A though, perhaps it's the brightest? I have one Quark 123 Ti which shifts a little to blueish/purplish (remember, it is still white light...) and that's much more pleasing to my eyes, it's a fresher light and it even looks brighter (perhaps it is?).

I have a Nailbender dropin with a 3C IRCC, that comes closer to what I like, as I'm a fan of warmer lights. That one is creamy white, with a yellowish/orange hue perhaps. It's not neutral to my eyes, I'd say cool but on the warm edge of cool white. It isn't R5 (R3 IIRC), but still plenty bright!

Back to topic, 4Sevens should tell us what bin they used, I just asked at the MP!

 

[Gaffle]

Just so you know, 4Sevens did NOT start this ANSI rating.

This is the first time that 4Sevens has rated lights with ANSI. So, again, I don't know why 4Sevens has started rating their lights via ANSI. OTF was just fine IMO. If ratings are going to be crazy accurate then ANSI is fine, just do it with all of your lights. OTF and ANSI together on one site obviously made some confusion.

 

[jimbo-tron]

Well, I had been waiting to get a Preon and a Quark, this announcement just made my mind up for me.

 

[palimpsest]

I still think that any upgrade to any light is good.

Yes, as long as the upgrade is worth the price.
But you certainly understood already from my previous post that 13,4% more dollars to have 7% more lumens isn't worth the price for me. Unless i desperately needs those 7% more lumens, but there is nothing an XP-G.R5 couldn't perform compared to an S2.

Paying 13,4% more dollars for an S2 is up to anyone but i don't need lumens war and the lumens war don't need me because finally, in a very few months, S2 will have a better lumens/price ratio...

EDIT:Basically there is no difference between a weak S2 and a good R5.
R5
Min. Luminous Flux @ 350 mA: 139 lms
Max. Luminous Flux @ 350 mA: 148 lms
S2.
Min. Luminous Flux @ 350 mA: 148 lms
Max. Luminous Flux @ 350 mA: 156 lms

Are 4sevens flashlights calibrated to garantee lumens output ? Any S2 version of a model will have 7% more lumens than any R5 version ? Or is it just in theory ?

 

[dts71]

We are not just seeing a different presentation of the output, the levels and runtimes have changed as well:

Quark MiNi 123, S2 Edition
Low: 8 lumens, 150 hours
Medium: 43 lumens, 6.2 hours
High: 135 lumens, 2 hours

Quark MiNi 123, R5 Edition
Low: 3 OTF lumens, 150 hours
Medium: 40 OTF lumens, 8 hours
High: 189 OTF lumens, 1.2 hours

Changes:
Low 3 OTF -> 8 ANSI lumen - same runtime
Medium 40 OTF -> 43 ANSI lumen - shorter runtime
High 189 OTF -> 135 ANSi lumens - longer runtime

 

[Gaffle]

We are not just seeing a different presentation of the output, the levels and runtimes have changed as well:

Quark MiNi 123, S2 Edition
Low: 8 lumens, 150 hours
Medium: 43 lumens, 6.2 hours
High: 135 lumens, 2 hours

Quark MiNi 123, R5 Edition
Low: 3 OTF lumens, 150 hours
Medium: 40 OTF lumens, 8 hours
High: 189 OTF lumens, 1.2 hours

Changes:
Low 3 OTF -> 8 ANSI lumen - same runtime
Medium 40 OTF -> 43 ANSI lumen - shorter runtime
High 189 OTF -> 135 ANSi lumens - longer runtime

See, the ANSI has made this real complicated when you are trying to price these lights out. The only way to really compare is to have the ANSI rating on the Mini R5 vs the Mini S2. ANSI rating may have the R5 with a very different lumen amount compared to the OTF rating, or if the R5 ANSI is very close to the OTF lumens then that makes the S2 a price dud.

Quark 123 Mini_High_________200__turn-on_____________1XIMR16340_________________________,
Quark 123 Mini_High_________192__60 sec_____________1XIMR16340________________________,
Quark 123 Mini_High_________190__120 sec____________1XIMR16340_________________________,


Now this would be close to ANSI ratings, just close because it is not 3 full minutes. I assume the light tested is the R5. This test is also done with rechargeables.