Two quick questions about setting up a weapon mount.

[JStraus]

OK, I am finally getting ready to put together a light mount for my AR-15.

I will plan put a solarforce L2P on an offset 1" mount.

I have two SF bodies with the MF 3 mode XM-L dropins and like them, but I have never seen how that compares to the throw of a single mode R2 drop in. DX has a smooth, single mode R2 available for under $10 but I'm not sure if that will throw better than the XM-L.

I have p-rocket (R5) and I don't think that really throws better than the XM-L's so I'm just not sure what is the "ideal" drop in type (R2, R5, XM-l, etc.) for this application.

Would that be a waste of money, or is there a better thrower out there?

I use the "Flame" trustfires for my lights and want to be sure that they would be OK with recoil.

I'd appreciate any feedback!

 

[looman]

I have R2s in all my throwers. smaller light source combined with deep large diameter reflector = tight beamed thrower.

I have XM-Ls and they are more floody but have decent throw depending on the light it is in. Baddest behaved boy is Thrunites V3 which has throw and flood a plenty but is a monster compared to say the Jetbeam RRT-1 Raptor which is a very ggod R2 thrower that is gun mountable.

If it is close work and heavy woodland or it is military and especially law enforcement, I have bbeen very impressed by the Klarus XT20 which is a twin headed XM-L light maxing at 1200 ANSI out of the front.

If I want to spot it, it is the Jetbeam on the gun, the V3 in the hand or the XT20 if it is flood with decent legs.

If I really want to see long time.............it is the OMG DEFT on an R2 with an aspheric lens and a pre-focus lens. That is just amazing and gizes me a buzz every time I press that little old rubber button.

You need to consider recoil on weapon mounted lamps. .22lr or HMR fine but the more recoil you have and the faster the rate of fire, the less rechargables will not hold up.

 

[JStraus]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Lots of stuff to go look at and then: decisions, decisions, decisions!

J

 

[bp_968]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Lots of stuff to go look at and then: decisions, decisions, decisions!

J

Your also going to want to stick to single mode lights. Multimode lights tend to flicker through modes under recoil.

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Yes, depending on the weapon you are going to mount this light to, you want to remember some important things:

• The light should either be rated for use on a weapon, or if you're using a drop-in for something like a Solarforce L2 or Surefire C/P, the electronics should be potted. Malkoff and Nailbender P60 drop-ins either come this way, or can be ordered this way for about $5 extra.

• Single Mode! The last thing you want in a tactical life-or-death situation is turning on your weapon light and having it go to low, medium, strobe, S.O.S. - anything other than high. You want HIGH and you want it NOW. Not in 2 or 3 presses of the switch. Also, you don't want to press the switch for high, then have to turn it off, only to switch it on again and have it come on in a lower mode. Lights that only change modes by twisting the head are an option, I guess, since you could leave the head fully tightened to HIGH and hopefully not worry about going into it's other modes.

• Do you want a remote pressure switch? I like the looks of Solarforce's PTS-3 switch for a P60 host, but haven't really seen any feedback on it. Maybe you'll be able to mount the light in a position where your off-hand thumb can reliably activate the rear switch, but I'd like a light with the option of a remote pressure tape switch, especially if I might be wearing gloves when operating the weapon. You don't want to have to fumble for the rear switch in the dark while holding a weapon and trying to focus on a possible threat.

On my home defense shotgun, I have a Streamlight TLR-3 weapon light mounted to the extended magazine tube with a little rail clamp. This setup positions the TLR-3's toggle switch just forward of the pump where my off-hand rests. I can easily manipulate the momentary and permanent on functions of the little light with my left thumb while correctly holding the shotgun.

For my .223/5.56 chambered AR-15, if I had the extra cash laying around, I would just get a Surefire Scout Light, or one of their newer models. In the meantime, I have a 1" offset mounting ring that attaches to the accessory rail and positions the light beside the front sight post. I will use one of my Surefire 6P bodies, most likely with a Nailbender single-mode XM-L with smooth reflector for maximum throw, and potted electronics. I'll probably order the Solarforce PTS-3 remote, and fish it through the rail covers and tape it to the vertical forward grip where my left fingers can easily operate it.

Whatever you do, test out your setup at the range thoroughly before relying on it for self defense.

 

[JStraus]

Thank you for your thorough reply. I have been itching to get a Nailbender, so this may be a perfect excuse!

I am planning on that same offset rail mount and will have to see if I can set it up for thumb operation with a broom-handle. I like the cleaner aspect of the no cords but I'll have to see how quick it is to use in reality.

Thanks again!

J

 

[JohnnyLunar]

I am planning on that same offset rail mount and will have to see if I can set it up for thumb operation with a broom-handle. I like the cleaner aspect of the no cords but I'll have to see how quick it is to use in reality.

That's how I had mine setup for a while, with the offset mount putting the light right in front and slightly to the right of the vertical forward grip (VFG), allowing me to operate the tail switch with my off-hand thumb while gripping the VFG. However, if I wanted to transition my hold on the rifle to a more traditional grip with my support hand around the front section of the rail, the light got in the way. Flipping the offset mount around to the top, where the light sits to the right of the front sight post, solves this problem. But I cannot quickly and easily access the light's tail switch.

The beauty of a remote switch like the Solarforce PTS-3, is that it keeps the traditional forward click switch on the back of the light, with a plug coming out of it going to the remote. If you want the light on temporarily (for tactical discretion), just press and hold the remote switch with pressure from your fingers while naturally gripping the gun. To turn off the light, release pressure with your fingers. If you need the light on permanently to read a map, open a door, or use your off-hand for anything, just reach up and click the tail switch on. At less than $20, the PTS-3 is a good option to have to play around with what works for you and your weapon.

 

[bp_968]

Yes, depending on the weapon you are going to mount this light to, you want to remember some important things:

• The light should either be rated for use on a weapon, or if you're using a drop-in for something like a Solarforce L2 or Surefire C/P, the electronics should be potted. Malkoff and Nailbender P60 drop-ins either come this way, or can be ordered this way for about $5 extra.

• Single Mode! The last thing you want in a tactical life-or-death situation is turning on your weapon light and having it go to low, medium, strobe, S.O.S. - anything other than high. You want HIGH and you want it NOW. Not in 2 or 3 presses of the switch. Also, you don't want to press the switch for high, then have to turn it off, only to switch it on again and have it come on in a lower mode. Lights that only change modes by twisting the head are an option, I guess, since you could leave the head fully tightened to HIGH and hopefully not worry about going into it's other modes.

• Do you want a remote pressure switch? I like the looks of Solarforce's PTS-3 switch for a P60 host, but haven't really seen any feedback on it. Maybe you'll be able to mount the light in a position where your off-hand thumb can reliably activate the rear switch, but I'd like a light with the option of a remote pressure tape switch, especially if I might be wearing gloves when operating the weapon. You don't want to have to fumble for the rear switch in the dark while holding a weapon and trying to focus on a possible threat.

On my home defense shotgun, I have a Streamlight TLR-3 weapon light mounted to the extended magazine tube with a little rail clamp. This setup positions the TLR-3's toggle switch just forward of the pump where my off-hand rests. I can easily manipulate the momentary and permanent on functions of the little light with my left thumb while correctly holding the shotgun.

For my .223/5.56 chambered AR-15, if I had the extra cash laying around, I would just get a Surefire Scout Light, or one of their newer models. In the meantime, I have a 1" offset mounting ring that attaches to the accessory rail and positions the light beside the front sight post. I will use one of my Surefire 6P bodies, most likely with a Nailbender single-mode XM-L with smooth reflector for maximum throw, and potted electronics. I'll probably order the Solarforce PTS-3 remote, and fish it through the rail covers and tape it to the vertical forward grip where my left fingers can easily operate it.

Whatever you do, test out your setup at the range thoroughly before relying on it for self defense.

What do you mean "potted"? Would you not recommend the solarforce XML module for a rifle light (10.5" suppressed ar15)?

I was going to use a solarforce light body as well since it seems so well made. Currently the gun has a surefire M962XM07 on it but it's huge, sucks batteries, and isn't very bright (it is robust though) the only LEDs I can find for it are SFs massively overpriced units and 1 sold by a night vision vendor on ar15.com that's rated well. I'd prefer to go to a 6p sized light (I've even been tempted to go to a TLR-1 honestly).

As for mounting I agree with your comment about a remote pad. The best setup is a low offset mount on the right so you can hit it with your offhand thumb and a pad mounted on the left so you can hit it with your primary hand if you swap shoulders to fire offhand behind cover (this is the go-to setup everyone I now who actually gets shot at uses).

Here is the rifle with its current light.

.

 

[JohnnyLunar]

bp_968,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, as this thread slipped down, down, down, and I didn't rediscover until just now.

Regarding potted electronics, from wikipedia: "In electronics, potting is a process of filling a complete electronic assembly with a solid or gelatinous compound for resistance to shock and vibration, and for exclusion of moisture and corrosive agents."

Most low to mid-end drop-ins (pretty much anything under $40) are probably not potted. Malkoff drop-ins are, and it is a $5 option with Nailbender drop-ins. If I were mounting a light on a shotgun, I would not even consider a light that wasn't rated specifically as a weapon light, as recoil from 12-gauge 00 buck or slugs is quite brisk. From a 5.56/.223 chambered AR with even a standard buffer, recoil is hardly an issue, but on a real fighting gun, why take the chance of using a non-potted, mass-produced drop-in?

By the way - that's a serious Noveske you've got there! That's about as close to my dream AR as it gets (especially with Noveske being an Oregon company!) Since I'm not getting shot at as a career, I'm happy with my S&W M&P15OR. But that Noveske is a fine-looking, purpose-built weapon. It looks like we use the same Magpul B.A.D. lever and BCM Gunfighter charging handle. Those were the 2 best upgrades I've done to my rifle.

My next flashlight-related purchase will probably be a Nailbender single mode XM-L drop-in, potted, neutral, with smooth reflector. It will sit inside a Surefire 6PD body, with a Solarforce PTS-3 switch, mounted offset high right beside the front sight. I have everything but the Nailbender, already mounted and waiting to be tested at the range.

 

[Blitzwing]

I have the 3 mode Ultrafire XM-L dropin. Throw is not bad and there is a ton of spill but my single mode XR-E R2 with SMO will throw a bit further. Batteries - I use those same red and black batteries and have yet to have one fail due to recoil - and that includes usage on a 12g shotgun which of course kicks harder than an AR15.

I would also consider the Eagletac T100C2 and T20C2 MkII with the XR-E emitter.

 

[JohnnyLunar]

Batteries - I use those same red and black batteries and have yet to have one fail due to recoil

As far as I know, batteries are not really a problem on weapon lights, unless they somehow temporarily lose contact with the head or tailcap due to recoil, which is a flaw in the design of the light itself, not the batteries.

That's why most weapon-rated flashlights have springs both in the tailcap and behind the LED module/lamp assembly (such as the Surefire P/C).

The fragile part of a flashlight that can be damaged or loosened due to recoil is the driver/circuit electronics themselves, which is where potting comes in. I've heard reports from CPF members of low-end P60 LED drop-ins not making it through a single day at the shooting range before they stopped working. You don't hear these reports about Malkoff or Nailbender potted drop-ins.

Any quality battery should hold up fine and not be a source of problems in a properly-designed weapon light.

 

[madecov]

On my AR. I am going to run a Klarus XT 10
I have not ordered it yet but my mount will be from Impact Weapon Components. The Klarus seems to be a robust light and there is a nice dedicated tape switch. The light always comes on at full power. Im not a big proponent of 18650's for weapon use. I think primary batteries are more robust.
Once I have a decent mount I will run recoil tests then if all seems good I will press the light into service

 

[SkyPup]

I'm using Klarus XT-20 and Olight M-20s.

 

[mbreckner]

That sig looks like it could handle most threats with light alone! As for the weapon light Straus everyone else is dead on. Go with a single mode that is potted. I would recomend a malkoff as they are BULLETPROOF! but if you are looking for maximum throw check out Nailbender's sale thread. Everything he makes is top notch and just remember to have him pot it for $5 more. I have experience with his XML which is outstanding, however it is not a dedicated thrower. If you want to shoot using a scope at night out to a 100 meters or so I would recomend something like a DBS v3 if you want to turn everything immediately infront of you to daylight get the Nailbender xml. OR go with both I use both on my AR and it allows me to use my scope effectively out to about 200 yards at night and if needed throw a wall of light in the immediate area. Another option is vinhnguyen54 has a sales thread that he sells the smaller r2 emitter p60 drop ins, I want one of these to put in my dbs but I havn't got around to it yet. His drop ins are supposed to be very throwy and may be exactly what you're looking for and he does potting as well. Best of luck! I'm sure you'll find something that works just like you want.

 

[SoSideways]

I didn't see anyone mention this yet, but if you're going to be using this light mainly as a home defense light, you might want to consider the effects of the light reflection back from the walls as you engage the light, especially at night.

I have many white walls around my house, and after my eyes have adjusted to the darkness after my wife and I have gone to bed, if I were to engage my stock Surefire 6P (the original one, so probably just a 60 lumens P60 module) and hit one of the walls, I end up blinding myself for a second, even if I burst fire the flashlight, after the first time, I am seeing spots, and that is not good.

Now imagine a much brighter, 150+ lumens light in the same situation... not good.

Also, if the light is going to be used mainly inside a house, having a throwy beam might not be the best idea. In this case, I would rather go for a light that's more floody than throwy, as the more area you light up inside a house with the beam, the faster you can find an intruder and what he has on him, ie. a weapon, and the floody beam can also throw off your position, just in case he tries to shoot at the light, he won't be able to pin point your location.

If you were using the light mainly for outdoors though, then a good mix of spill and throw would probably be ideal, as you can see the surrounding area of your target as well. Also, you probably wouldn't be hunting or shooting things past 100 yards at night anyway, so a throwy light with a narrow beam might not be the best solution here either.

Just my $.02

 

[bp_968]

bp_968,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, as this thread slipped down, down, down, and I didn't rediscover until just now.

Regarding potted electronics, from wikipedia: "In electronics, potting is a process of filling a complete electronic assembly with a solid or gelatinous compound for resistance to shock and vibration, and for exclusion of moisture and corrosive agents."

By the way - that's a serious Noveske you've got there! That's about as close to my dream AR as it gets (especially with Noveske being an Oregon company!) Since I'm not getting shot at as a career, I'm happy with my S&W M&P15OR. But that Noveske is a fine-looking, purpose-built weapon. It looks like we use the same Magpul B.A.D. lever and BCM Gunfighter charging handle. Those were the 2 best upgrades I've done to my rifle.

Thanks for the info! The Noveske is my favorite AR, especially with the suppressor. Without the can its so loud it hurts your ears through muffs, you need muffs and plugs!

 

[bp_968]

I didn't see anyone mention this yet, but if you're going to be using this light mainly as a home defense light, you might want to consider the effects of the light reflection back from the walls as you engage the light, especially at night.

I have many white walls around my house, and after my eyes have adjusted to the darkness after my wife and I have gone to bed, if I were to engage my stock Surefire 6P (the original one, so probably just a 60 lumens P60 module) and hit one of the walls, I end up blinding myself for a second, even if I burst fire the flashlight, after the first time, I am seeing spots, and that is not good.

Now imagine a much brighter, 150+ lumens light in the same situation... not good.

Also, if the light is going to be used mainly inside a house, having a throwy beam might not be the best idea. In this case, I would rather go for a light that's more floody than throwy, as the more area you light up inside a house with the beam, the faster you can find an intruder and what he has on him, ie. a weapon, and the floody beam can also throw off your position, just in case he tries to shoot at the light, he won't be able to pin point your location.

You don't search with a light, you stun. Searching your house for bad guys is a bad bad idea. I can see in the dark in my house fine, the light is to do a last last minute verification on the target and stun them momentarily before the 5.56 rounds impact their chest. Castle doctrine means you don't need to have a conversation with the armed intruder or attempt any "de-escalation" scenarios, instead you just shoot. Searching, alone, with a rifle mounted light the "right" way is quite hard, it's much easier with a pistol and a handheld light, but still a bad idea.

I also don't need to see if he has a weapon, it doesn't matter. The second he made the decision to break into my house lethal force became legal to use on him. I dont intend to ask him to leave or give him the benefit of the doubt and get myself shot. Your state laws may vary.

Do your neighbors a favor and watch your background and use good self defense ammo

 

[SoSideways]

Still, the brighter the light, the more reflection comes back at you, and may end up somehow stunning yourself if the light's too bright.

In either case, a mag of 75gr TAP FPD in .223 is always in the gun. Just need to charge it and it's ready to go. Only reason why 1 isn't in the chamber and ready to go is because the wife freaks out about it :shakehead

 

[bp_968]

Still, the brighter the light, the more reflection comes back at you, and may end up somehow stunning yourself if the light's too bright.

In either case, a mag of 75gr TAP FPD in .223 is always in the gun. Just need to charge it and it's ready to go. Only reason why 1 isn't in the chamber and ready to go is because the wife freaks out about it :shakehead

Lol, TAP is good stuff! Your wife has the right of it when it comes to an AR15 though. A floating firing pin makes me nervous, easy enough to leave it charged but not chambered.

I keep the glock loaded though, it's made to keep chambered.

As for the lights, I've never had self stunning problems with lights, but none of my walls are pure white and none of my lights are brighter then a XML so maybe I just need something brighter <evil grin>

 

[SoSideways]

Yeah my house has mainly white walls, so that doesn't help. Lots of big open areas with a couple of small hallways, so for my house anyway, I feel like a floody light with a decent hotspot would be the way to go.

Since I'm new to this forum and all the different LED modules, however, I still don't know which of the LED modules I would like to go with. At first I was going to say XP-E, but then the potential of the XP-G and XM-L are there as well.

I've read lots of threads on here in regards to P60 drop-ins, but man, they still confuse me. The P60 lamp that's in my 6P does fine, but I want a little more light for the other end of the house, as well as more run time on a set of primaries.