OK, Rebel or Cree Fenix LOD???

Cool shakey! Please keep us updated. As far as I know you're the first to get one.

THE_dAY said:

shakeyleg's, that's great news. looking forward to your post. btw, how much were they?

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The exchange rate that day put them at $60 each. I've got some preliminary beam shots that I'll try to post. Please forgive the quality as I used no tripod and the small digital wanted to jump in and out of focus.
These were all done with fresh Duracell alks. Lithiums might even things out so I'll do that next.

Lod Q2 left with smooth reflector, Reb100 right with textured reflector


LOD Q2 on High, 18 feet to the fence


Reb100 on High, 18' to the fence


LOD Q2 on High - 7' to door jam, 13' to the throne


Reb100 on High - 7' to door jamb, 13' to throne


LOD Q2 on Low 18" from wall


Reb100 on Low 18" from wall


Just for comparison, here is the second Reb100 on Low 18' from wall


There's a taste of the difference on alkalines. Yes, there seems to be a beam pattern difference between the two rebels but both are brighter than the Q2 by a significant margin. In relation to their respective reflectors, the emitter of the floodier Reb seems to sit just slightly higher than its brethren.
In actual use, the Q2 seems more focused and less bright. Outside, the reb is visibly brighter and throws farther with a larger spill. I like!
Will try to do an e2 comparison and if there is a significant difference I'll report.

BTW, the outdoor shots most accurately reveal the differences in beam intensity.


Edit - After loading e2's into all the LOD's, light intensity seems much closer, with the Q2 showing more throw and slightly brighter spot. My sense is that the Rebs would be as intense if equipped with smooth reflectors. But the difference in intensity is not enormously visible. No question, the Reb beam is a bit smoother and floodier, and still, almost as intense a the Q2.

Thank you for the review, Shakey.

:thumbsup:


Sounds interesting !



_

shakeylegs, any chance you can test and post pics using a 10440 cell?

BobbyRS said:

shakeylegs, any chance you can test and post pics using a 10440 cell?

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Bobby, I don't have any on hand, sorry.

shakeylegs said:

Two of the mythical RB100 LOD's arrived by mail today, in natural finish, and with textured reflectors!

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LOL! My wife has an unusual expression that she likes to use when a negative prediction is disproven, "I love it when I'm wrong." That applies to me here big time, well done!

I've added yours to the Rebel question & review list:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172850

shakeylegs said:

Bobby, I don't have any on hand, sorry.

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Hi Shakey,

Glad to see your Rebel 100 L0d's are working so well! (and a textured reflector to boot - NICE!!!).


After all my theoretical speculation earlier [not to mention major pissing and moaning about Fenix not being more responsive] , thanks for taking the initive to POSITIVELY answer the question about the Rebel 100 in the L0D.


You are right about the total Lumens being higher on the Rebels even with E2's [and MUCH higher with Alkaline batteries] because the textured reflector throws a larger hotspot plus more fill, and spreading the light around like that and STILL having it look as bright or brighter than a smooth reflector takes a lot more total lumens.

I think we can safely say now that the Rebel-100 L0D is pretty clearly the best L0D released to date, just as I had hoped it would be.

Glad to hear that you are not planning to run 10440's in your Rebel 100's, as what will happen with the lower Vf Rebel emitter when you try to 'direct drive' it is anybody's guess. Let some other brave soul who's curiosity exceeds his common sense, make that experiment. (Hopefully this idiot will feel that 300 lumens of output for 15 seconds before the light smokes is a great deal).


Now if the Fenix-Store would just get off the dime and offer EXACTLY the same light you just bought [textured reflector,100 Lumen 350mA.) that would be great.

Hi Luminescent,
These Rebel 100's are great. And you are dead on about the reflectors. A little bit of throw is lost but for local and medium range they produce a whole lot of usable light. They have to be because they are as bright as the Q2 version with smooth reflector at medium distance. Only over longer distances is there a slightly noticeable edge for my beloved Q2. Wish I'd ordered three Reb's as my wife and daughter won't give them back.
I have to believe that fenix will offer these soon and I'm sure David will be the first to jump on board. I sure hope they'll be offered in natural finish. Black gets so beat-up in pocket.
Do you think fenix is still unsure of the market for rebels? Might that explain the kind of test marketing Pro Light Japan is doing? Or perhaps just unsure of Reb100 suitability in the LOD. They've obviously seen the light where their other flashlights are concerned. In any case, I hope Fenix will grab the LOD Reb100 bull by the horns. These are a pocket full of light!:rock:

Luminescent said:

Glad to hear that you are not planning to run 10440's in your Rebel 100's, as what will happen with the lower Vf Rebel emitter when you try to 'direct drive' it is anybody's guess. Let some other brave soul who's curiosity exceeds his common sense, make that experiment. (Hopefully this idiot will feel that 300 lumens of output for 15 seconds before the light smokes is a great deal).


Now if the Fenix-Store would just get off the dime and offer EXACTLY the same light you just bought [textured reflector,100 Lumen 350mA.) that would be great.

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I'm kind of an idiot Hopefully I'll have my LOD Rebel in about two weeks and I'll drop in 10440 in there shortly after opening the package. My guess is that it's not going to be nearly as sensitive as you're speculating it to be. I certainly don't think it's going to smoke in 15 seconds, nor do I believe it will produce 300 lumens, but is should be quite bright. Hopefully it will be noticably brighter than the Q2 with 10440. Well see....

Man, pop those Rebs in a Surefire E2L or L5 and I'll be a happy man.:naughty:

Great beam shots.:thumbsup:

THE_dAY said:

ElectronGuru, that is not a typo, the LOD-CE Rebel100 was made in limited quantities for ProLightJapan, they are also getting limited quantiities of other Fenix lights with Q5 WC.

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Anyone know if our great and malevolent Japanese vendor can score something even more prized -> an LT2 with something even better than a Rebel 80?

Patriot36 said:

I'm kind of an idiot Hopefully I'll have my LOD Rebel in about two weeks and I'll drop in 10440 in there shortly after opening the package. My guess is that it's not going to be nearly as sensitive as you're speculating it to be. I certainly don't think it's going to smoke in 15 seconds, nor do I believe it will produce 300 lumens, but is should be quite bright. Hopefully it will be noticably brighter than the Q2 with 10440. Well see....

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Your a better man than I am Charley Brown

I am an electronic engineer, and I like things to be deterministic not stochastic. [predictable not random] :shakehead

Running 10440's in the L0D you are basically in 'direct drive' and tiny differences in Vf will make huge differences in current, unless something else intervenes, I could be wrong, the Rebel is pretty tough, so it may not fry after all, the battery may just explode first.

Edit:

Seriously, this is no laughing matter. Here are some Vf plots cross-linked from evan9162's technical evaluation of the Rebel-100:



In a standard L0D-CE with a Cree P4 using a 10440 battery drives just a little over 1 Amp (this has been measured at the tailcap of the L0D). If you look at the turquoise XR-E (P4) curve you will see that it hits the horizontal 3.5 volt line just a little above 1 amp on the horizontal axis. This makes sense because the loaded voltage of a 3.7 volt 10440 could easily be about 3.5 volts.

Got that? Good, now see that bottom dark blue curve? That's the Rebel-100. follow the same 3.5 volt line over to the right until it hits the dark blue curve. Hmmm, looks like about 1.9 AMP!!! This is about twice the absolute max current you should consider driveing the Rebel-100 at if you expect it to work more than a few minutes, and would be an incredible 5.4C discharge rate for a standard 350mA 10440 cell. Anything above a 1C or 2C discharge rate for one of these tiny AAA cells is a BAD idea so the original 1 Amp plus current draw for a standard L0D-CE with a Cree XR-E P4 emitter was already pushing it, but 5.4C forget it

So good luck (you'll need it).

Luminescent said:

Your a better man than I am Charley Brown

I am an electronic engineer, and I like things to be deterministic not stochastic. [predictable not random] :shakehead

Running 10440's in the L0D you are basically in 'direct drive' and tiny differences in Vf will make huge differences in current, unless something else intervenes, I could be wrong, the Rebel is pretty tough, so it may not fry after all, the battery may just explode first.

Edit:

Seriously, this is no laughing matter. Here are some Vf plots cross-linked from evan9162's technical evaluation of the Rebel-100:

In a standard L0D-CE with a Cree P4 using a 10440 battery drives just a little over 1 Amp (this has been measured at the tailcap of the L0D). If you look at the turquoise XR-E (P4) curve you will see that it hits the horizontal 3.5 volt line just a little above 1 amp on the horizontal axis. This makes sense because the loaded voltage of a 3.7 volt 10440 could easily be about 3.5 volts.

Got that? Good, now see that bottom dark blue curve? That's the Rebel-100. follow the same 3.5 volt line over to the right until it hits the dark blue curve. Hmmm, looks like about 1.9 AMP!!! This is about twice the absolute max current you should consider driveing the Rebel-100 at if you expect it to work more than a few minutes, and would be an incredible 5.4C discharge rate for a standard 350mA 10440 cell. Anything above a 1C or 2C discharge rate for one of these tiny AAA cells is a BAD idea so the original 1 Amp plus current draw for a standard L0D-CE with a Cree XR-E P4 emitter was already pushing it, but 5.4C forget it

So good luck (you'll need it).

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So, you're saying I should video tape it for you....


Just kidding. You've brought up some good points. I'd like to see some more plot charts for the Rebel. Doesn't it seem strange that it's drawing that much amperage at 3.5 volts? I'm wondering if that's accurate....

ElectronGuru said:

Anyone know if our great and malevolent Japanese vendor can score something even more prized -> an LT2 with something even better than a Rebel 80?

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Malevolent is an adjective I would not associate with Pro Light Japan, even in joking. One of the nicest and most knowledgeable vendors I've encountered in any retail market. Email them with your question and see what they say. You never know.

I'll be darned - looks like Rebel time it is!!

Luminescent said:

Now if the Fenix-Store would just get off the dime and offer EXACTLY the same light you just bought [textured reflector,100 Lumen 350mA.) that would be great.

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+1

I'm going to wait a month before getting an L0D to see if Fenix decides to sell them in America. Those beamshots look impressive, especially for an AAA battery.

ElectronGuru said:

Anyone know if our great and malevolent Japanese vendor can score something even more prized -> an LT2 with something even better than a Rebel 80?

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Did you mean benevolent?

hi shakeylegs, so the rebel has more flood, and the cree has more throw, but which one do you consider the brighter (ceiling bounce test)?

have you done any runtimes on high between the two?

thanks for taking the time to do the beamshots and sharing your info on your new er' i mean your wife's and daugher's new lights.:tinfoil:

Q2 beam looks almost green in comparison. Huge difference in color rendition on the items in the throne room. I really can't wait to get my hands on a Rebel100 L0D now... got an extra 10440 sitting in a drawer too. Thanks, shakeylegs.

shakeylegs said:

...LOD Q2 on High - 7' to door jam, 13' to the throne

Reb100 on High - 7' to door jamb, 13' to throne

...No question, the Reb beam is a bit smoother and floodier, and still, almost as intense a the Q2.

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THE_dAY said:

hi shakeylegs, so the rebel has more flood, and the cree has more throw, but which one do you consider the brighter (ceiling bounce test)?

have you done any runtimes on high between the two?

thanks for taking the time to do the beamshots and sharing your info on your new er' i mean your wife's and daugher's new lights.:tinfoil:

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I'm guessing the reb100 puts out more light - lots more, no question, on alkalines, and just plain more on e2's.
No runtime tests yet. I'll have to commit larceny to get runtimes. Or buy another reb100