Performance Viewpoint/Marwi halogen-to-LED conversion (UPDATED)

pe2er

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

I was unaware I couldn't link my own pics from photobucket... and eventually learned how to post pics directly, so here ya go.
No, I'm afraid it was my bad. I posted some pics from Cutter and Dx in post #6. My apologies - the images have been fixed.
:oops:
I've converted a few of those Marwi housings with Cutter quad & triple kits using bflex drivers & homemade heatsink 'slug'
These do look real nice :)
 
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DM51

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

We're having some problems in this thread with pics people are posting...

snaps, it's now yours in post #21 that need attention: they are too large. Please resize them or they will be removed.

Please would all members read Rule 3.
 

BrianMc

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

I knew that Hot ain't Cool, besides being in violation of Rule #3! :shakehead
I also found out it could have been me::whistle:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198594

Now, I know. Maybe the above link should be pasted along with any warning of use of hotlinks. Also make the word 'hotlink' on the Rules page a clickable link to this thread as a definition of the word and problem. :poke:

Cityevader: Nice thread in spite of technical difficulties. I am working with the newer Marwi housings. I assume the supply of 6 volt bulbs EL34 had didn't work for you (still very cheap until your design is up and running).

snaps: Nice mods. Love to see better. Please repost at lower res. :popcorn:
The newer Marwi "Bullet" MR11 housings are also a column and cone shape and NOT curved inside. So I would be interested in how you made your 'slug' if it was done without a CNC machine or lathe. Fit's OP's topic.
Thanks in advance for any info on your slugs: I guess I am hooked. :sssh:

Disclaimer: (This may not be the appropriate place to ask, and CityEvader can ask me to edit this out and post my own (expletive deleted) thread).

Situation: I am modding a 2 light system for the street. My first dual. :huh:

From research here, we are pretty varied. Still, seeing as at least two of you are 'experts' with your two-light systems, and I have learned a lot here, what are your thoughts on dual system use on the road and what tweaks seem to work for you in actual use (amount of light, spread, changing light aim while riding, Hi/low power, etc.):thinking:
 
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cityevader

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

Hey snaps,
I was originally wanting to do triple Cree Q5's from Cutter, but didn't think I could get a rear slug to fit tight to housing AND maintain perfectly perpendicular lens lip-to-housing simultaneously. How did you manage? And it sure looks like it can't fit lengthwise into housing either!

Actually, on further observation of housing's machining, the taper on the outside starts further forward than the taper on the inside.
So I started over, grinding down the screw on the inside that sticks up from the mount, then shoved a new copper cap all the way back, scribed, then soldered on new copper lip, then soldered on thin single layer of stranded copper. Result was a gain of 9mm to a new depth now of 24mm..yay!

Well, not yay yet since I haven't re-researched reflectors to fit this deeper dimension, but it certainly can't be harder to fit now! Hopefully a star will fit now so I can avoid soldering/mounting bare emitters.

BTW, wrapping and holding and soldering the stranded wire is tough by yourself! Picture below is a mock up showing vicegrips to hold one end while wrapping the whole thing. It's too hot to hold while soldering, so stick the loose end of wire in a vise or another pair of vicegrips, which frees you up to solder if you don't have another person to help.
Also pic of my "lathe" setup using a die grinder mandrel shoved into a length of car heater hose, wrapped in a bit of cloth to tighten fit and all shoved into the cup. A high speed drill then spins it and a large file is used to take down material in a very controlled fashion and after about an hour (WHEW!) it is a very smooth yet tight fit in lamp housing, which is critical to dissipate heat.
I was filing it down to keep a tight fit and took a micron too much off and no longer tight within housing. Maybe I'll AA it in after all wiring/driver, etc is finalized?

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BrianMc

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion




I thought that these might be of interest. This is for the newer Bullet Marwi MR11 lights so not quite on thread, but for anyone googling this forum for Marwi or ViewPoint, it will work.

The inside of these bullet bodies is a 1" column and 3/4" truncated cone. The anodizing was sanded off and the surface polished for better contact and heat transfer. For those interested google EL34, he has a limited supply of either shape.

For my first one, I decided on a removable (easy to mod) pill setup. The pill is a 1" Mueller copper pipe cap polished on the face and ground and sanded down by about 1/16" around the circumference and cut to about 17/32 deep using hand tools and a bench vise. It has a 7/16" (about) deep copper 1" to 3/4" reducer soldered in the backside to improve the thermal path to the lining. This reducer has a 1/8" wall and a lot of mass. I am not too fussed about weight as this light isn't going on my helmet, but heat is the enemy.

The lining is a 1 1/4" Mueller union with pressed-in shoulder where normally, two pipes butt. Stock, it is 2 1/8" long and has a 1/16" wall. The shoulder was used as a fore-aft stop for the pill. The union needs to be shortened by at least 5/8" so there is some freedom in placement of the shoulder in the light body. (This extra length can take vise marks, then be cut off.) Likewise, the groove in the pill/pipe cap can be closer to the front or back. The lining was reduced in thickness to a bit more than 1/32" by grinding inside and out and the shoulder was reduced in height to allow for an easier to make shallower groove in the pill. To shrink the union, 3/4" was cut out of the bottom side in line with the center of the mounting cut out in back. The rear of the lining has a cutout for the mount, and nine slots to allow the fingers thus formed to make a cone shape. The slots must be recut until the desired shape is accomplished. Much fitting, regrinding, refitting etc. Cottage industry prototyping at its best!

The LISA2 lenses are 6.8 mm and the XP-G R5 10 mm MCPCBs are 1.5-2 mm thick (awaiting delivery, and sit did not show exact thickness) so the groove was made accordingly. I am using a copper wire spacer in front of the liner for adjustment.



Here the heat sink is installed, for a test fitting of insulated mounting ring and the latest Taskled bflex. It shows the fingers of the lining in the cone part of the light body. Clearance is needed for the mount, so the fingers can't extend all the way back. The assembly is a tight fit requiring a pipe clamp to compress the sleeve which wants to spring to a larger size (good for body-sleeve contact once in). Removal requires the shoulder of the body be placed against wood blocks with room below for assembly to fall out, and a 'punch' made of a deep well socket and a moderately smartish tap or five. So yeah, it's snug.




Here it is in full test fitting (minus 3 XP-G's, LISA-2's, wiring, switches, status LED and the billed hoods I want to test for a low beam).
You can just see the 'almost centered' hole at the 11:00 o'clock position that I used for a bolt to spin the pill on my drill and which will now be the pass through for the LED leads. The darker rim is the remaining rounding of the cap to the sides of the pill. The wire spacer and the 9 mm of lining are clearly visible. Troutie figures about 1300 lumens for his 6 XPG R5's at 1 A with all losses considered. so each of mine should be about 650 lumens at max, a bit more than the MagicShine, but with better run times. Each can be as much as 30% more light than the HID they replace.



This is for the high beam unit which might go on the helmet. A much quicker build. The 1" Mueller pipe cap was cut using a hacksaw and Dremel cut-off disc to cut the two legs off for the mount clearance. Legs made by cuts were bent out at front to close the gap to body and bent in to make a cone at the back. Some deburring remains to be done.

The retaining ring is made from a 1" Mueller Streamline 1" copper pipe clamp. Bent over a 1" dowel, the ends filed until it would just slide into the housing. The aft side will get a beveled edge to mate better with the rounded shoulder of the pipe cap.

Shortening the cap to a minimal 1/2" for body-heat sink thermal path and moving it full back, could get an inch of depth for a reflector, best if it could also be a heat path. Advantage over mounting inside a cap is that the bottom of the cap cap be polished and is easier to access for fat fingers in assembling the LED(s) to the sink.

 
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DM51

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

snaps, you are obviously following this thread. I posted an instruction to you above, and followed this with a PM to you. Since then you have logged on more than once and you have not only failed to comply with what you were asked to do, but you have actually repeated the offense with a further post.

Your posting privileges are suspended for 3 days, during which time it would be a good idea for you to contemplate the inadvisability of failing to comply with instructions given by CPF staff.
 

cityevader

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

Dont bother with the ledil boom's they will end up in the same place as mine.. in a box unused.. they are way to floody!
QUOTE]

If you don't like yours, wanna sell em cheap?:twothumbs
I've pretty much decided on the Booms. I don't need pinpoint throw, but will get two spots and one medium.
I was planning on getting them from PhotonFanatic here on CPF for $4.50 each, and saw his P7 emitters, haven't asked him yet if they came on stars, if not, they seem expemsive at $26 each.
Anybody know a decent supplier of P7s, preferably who give the bin and part number so I can pick the color temp?
I'm afraid to order from DX due to many stories of super long wait times from order. And it won't be for another two weeks until I get a bonus check to afford $100 in parts, and I'd be willing to pay a bit more for assured quick delivery....this project will already take way longer than hoped for!
 

cityevader

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

Well, It'll be only a couple days until my P7's from Hoffmanamps, and reflectors, AAA and grease from Photonfanatic come in.

I've decided to make two helmet lights, that could then be attached to any of our bikes/helmets for max versatility, as well as hi-lo beam using parelled 1400ma AMC7135 board.

Since I "stole" Hoffmanamps idea, and will be using his site extensively (so many wonderful pictures and diagrams!) I figured I'd buy all the remaining parts from him out of gratitude for such a wonderful resource.
So i was filling up my online cart with necessary parts, and quickly realized that it wasn't much less than what he was selling a completed assembly for. In fact, once I add batteries and charger, my dual lamps will be as much or more than a pair of Magicshine! I don't see huge profit margins for Hoffmanamps unless his free time is truly free and buys in bulk?
I started second guessing my crude design over tried-and-true purty machined parts premade, and the fact that it'll be my first ever electronics project that be will stuffed into an extremely tight space and have no room for error or else thing go :poof:!

I was grumpily deciding whether i was at the point of no return, having spent only half the required amount which was somehow way more than I had initially planned on, and sought the wife's advice. (She is every bit as frugal as me, and we both cringe at unexpected costs). She asked if I would want this done for me instead of by me.....no. She asked if I would miss being in the garage working with my hands like all my other projects I do......yes. Do I really want to abandon a project and have that on my mind.....no.

So I've decided to go from :sigh: to :twothumbs. and set aside comparisons to others' end products and costs, as mine are what they are, and will be made by myself, and as everything else I've done it'll teach me valuable skills to avoid depending on someone else to accomplish things I could really be doing for myself.

Off to order more parts!
 

pe2er

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

Your wife must be very smart :cool:

The one does not preclude the other. I Have made several lights for my bicycles, but I also have a Magicshine. I Use them both. the ones I no longer use are usually sold to support me buying more parts :D
 

Goldigger

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BrianMc

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

Hoffmanamps ...so many wonderful pictures and diagrams!) ...gratitude for such a wonderful resource.
Ditto.

So I ...quickly realized that it wasn't much less than what he was selling a completed assembly for. ... I don't see huge profit margins for Hoffmanamps unless his free time is truly free and buys in bulk?

From our e-mails, it appears he rescued several hundred of both the funnel/bell shaped older and newer bullet shaped lights from a warehouse (for salvage price or less?) so he makes a little , though not a much on the straight parts

He has a lot of time in the reflector selection mod, and heat sink design and build, as well as the stacked driver, not to mention a prior build that was not economical to mass produce, and playing with the MagicShine.

The MagicShine light exerts a considerable price pressure on everyone. If it makes you feel better, I may well have been able to buy three MagicShines for the price of my two Marwi/Viewpoint Bullets and I already had the battery. I look to Trouties lights, and the upper end of commercial lighting systems as being a better comparison, if I keep the workmanship and component quality up. By that measure, I am ahead by a factor of 2 or more. It's a lot cheaper than therapy, too.

I started second guessing my crude design ...
I was grumpily deciding whether i was at the point of no return... and sought the wife's advice. ...She asked if I would want this done for me instead of by me.....no. She asked if I would miss being in the garage working with my hands like all my other projects I do......yes. Do I really want to abandon a project and have that on my mind.....no.

Our wives think much the same. I don't deserve mine.

So I've decided to go from :sigh: to :twothumbs. and set aside comparisons to others' end products and costs, as mine are what they are, and will be made by myself, and as everything else I've done it'll teach me valuable skills to avoid depending on someone else to accomplish things I could really be doing for myself.
Off to order more parts!

My bullet lights are test assembled (heat sink, cover, momentary switch, status LED, power and LED leads checking for for clearances and think final assembly order. Just need lenses and XP-G's. (Couldn't do all this work and put in R4's even though only a measly 8-9% lower in efficacy.)

In for a penny... Just decided not to cobble the wiring at this point, so will have to order more trailtech connectors.

Bummer! Just in from the MTBR forum a discussion of the LISA2 SS 'superspot' 10 mm lenses: listed as 11 degree total forward angle at 50% (5.5 degrees each way), it now turns out that they may be less effective that the 10417 Carclo square optic (about 17 degrees). No one tested these yet when I ordered. I have six LISA2 SS, and three each of the 10417 Carclos, and the LISA2 medium narrows and ovals coming with the XP-G's so I can play with them, unless I change the order.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=575994
 
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cityevader

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

Most of the parts have come in except for batteries/charger/holders, so here's some more progress. First, I made another cup since last one got worked too small and was a little too deep. This time I used 18ga stranded wire and tightly wrapped/soldered it. I'll take pics when I do the next cup. Filing it down to half the wire's diameter left a nearly smooth copper surface to contact the lamp housing.
I went with AMC 7135 linear driver since I wanted 18650 batteries in parallel for the most flexibility in cell count/pack size, as well as gradual decline in output to prevent sudden loss of light, as well as emergency use of a single spare cell if necessary.
The switch/driver board was kinda difficult due to difference in product and older pictures on Hoffmanamps site. Basically, the SPDT switch takes battery negative in and has two leads out. One on, both on, other one on, both off. The two leads each go to a board to turn it on. With one on, 1400ma to LED, with both on, 2800ma.
I'm a first time electronics guy, so had to do some thinking to account for differences in online pics of board and how it actually is. What I gather is that the boards center hole is for both B+ in and LED+ out, the blob of solder to the left of the center hole is LED- output, and the outer ring is the ground input from switch to turn the board on.
I drilled a tiny 1/16" hole (which turned out to be huge!) for the LED- (blob of solder left of center), drilling it to contact the solder but mainly through the empty board without going near the outer ring, and scraping the copper around the hole on the backside. I also enlarged the center LED+ hole, although I really really wish I hadn't been impatient to start, otherwise I would have gotten solid wire instead of fighting stranded wire.
The LED+and- leads stick straight up from the first board so that the second board can slide right over those leads and soldered. One switch wire goes to one board's outer ring, the other switch wire to the other board's outer ring.
The original power plug is being reused. Note B+ at center of board going to power plug, the LED+ will be soldered here when assembled. LED- will go to the left lead sticking out the board.
While the AAA was setting up on the led to cup, I used some alligator clips to test functionality. All I had was a cr123a at 2.9 volts and squeezing bare wires to terminal, but it lights up!! High is about the same as my 55lm Streamlight Jr but very floody, low flickers, but I think it's my poor connection.
Tomorrow I should have all hardware finished and lamp assembled, and can't wait until batteries come....Guess I'll start the second lamp and get more pics.


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cityevader

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

I figured out why one of the low modes didn't work....Don't drill out the center hole!! You'll lose all contact!

I had to take it all apart rebuilt with a new board and this time I used 20ga solid wire, and a 30 watt pencil iron instead of the mammoth 100 watt gun, it took me about 5 minutes to build the thing this way instead of many hours fighting and fighting the stranded wire and gun the other way!!!

Also, the Ledil Boom reflectors had to be filed a bit to clear the wires soldered onto the star, and the original double stick mounting tape was ridiculous as it came, it would have covered the dome. When trimmed for clearance, there was a nearly microscopic contact point for adhesion. The first one I used the tape and a couple dabs of orange high temp silicone. The second one got epoxied on. (I have a feeling I'll have to redo the tape/silicone one after a couple rides.) Then holes were drilled into cup bottom to clear the wires and the star then got glued with AAA.

The star/reflector assembly then got inserted into the housing. I slathered the cup's outside with thermal grease, heated the aluminum housing in the oven at 200° for 10 minutes, then slid the cup right in without even disturbing the grease. Otherwise, the act of pushing it in tightly would have pushed a lot of the grease out. I honestly don't know which way would have been better. 35mm Glass lens with a thin film of silicone for sealing was then held in place with the thread-on finishing cap. Note: If, when first building the copper cups, a single "lip" ring instead of two was made, then the glass lens will not be able to be tightened on and relies solely on the silicone to keep it there. One of my lamps has one ring, one has two. The housings were then attached to a helmet mount from Hoffmanamps and velcroed to helmet. The same mount slides into the handlebar mount. In two seconds it can go from a helmet lamp to bar mount and back to helmet lamp.

Then I glued two battery holders from Digikey part # Bk-18650-pc2-nd with epoxy, which will likely end up unglued since they appear to be made of ABS, so I soldered on a length of 12ga solid wire to keep it somewhat together should the glue fail. The ends of those got soldered to the harness going to lamp. I'll end up plasti-dipping the exposed wires.
The pack is parallel, so in an emergency, a single cell can be used to power it up.
Oh yeah, grind/cut a "thumb-notch" on side of holder otherwise you'll never get a grip on battery to remove it!


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cityevader

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

I've gone through the whole thread and inserted more pictures and descriptions to make it flow better and be more instructional to those reading it for the first time.

If you've already read it once, may be good to go through it again?

Later tonight I'll get some beam shots.
 
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cityevader

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

So here's the breakdown in price....WAAAYY more than I'd initially planned for. Kinda like all my home remodel projects...budget goes out the door the moment you start!

$42........ 2 = p7's
$10........ 2 = Ledil Boom spot reflectors
$7.50..... 2 = AAA Arctic Alumina Adhesive
$3.75........... AA Arctic Alumina thermal grease
$12.........4 = 1400ma current limiting board linear driver
$1.50...... 2 = glass lens
$8.50...... 2 = helmet mounts
$8.75........... quick release bar mount
$1.60...... 2 = lightweight nylon bolt/nut
$10.24.... 4 = battery holders
$5.20 ......2 = Judco SPDT switch
$34......... 4 = Ultrafire XSL 2600mah 18650 battery
$17 Ultrafire WF-139 charger
$30 shipping
$7 hardware store misc

Grand total at $199

WHEW!!!!

I thought I was going to get it all together cheaper than if I had bought the pre-made hoffmanamps unit...not!! Subtracting the price of the batteries comes to $151..... the Hoffanamps units would have been $176 for two, so I saved myself a whopping $24 by spending a whole bunch of time....like maybe 20 hours!!!???? If I had known that I would have simply bought them!!!!
However, the research and development and challenge of scratch building is what makes it all worthwhile.
 

cityevader

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Re: Viewpoint LED conversion

Goldigger was right, the Ledil Boom spot reflector is quite floody. First pic is on high at only 9 feet from garage door with a streamlight Jr on the right with fresh 1.5v AA's which is rated at 55 lumens.

The Streamlight jr has a good spot with quite dim spill. The P7 has no real "hotspot" or perhaps it is simply very large, but the spill is very bright and nearing 180°...I'd estimate about 150° beam angle overall. This can be seen in the second picture with the front tire brightly lit and throwing a hard shadow and the floor receding into darkness behind the bike. But If I transposed the Jr's spot over the p7's, it'd take about five Jr beams to fill the p7's "hotspot". So my "Okie" lumen test says approx 300 lumens in hotspot, with a substantial amount spread over a humungous area of spill.

This by itself would be a fabulous barmount light for getting the big picture of what is around you. But imagine an illuminated object being three times further away at 30 feet and that 4 foot spot becomes, what, 12 feet? which is (I'm no math guy but three to the third power?) waaayy dimmer at distance. If I were actually riding at speed, and on my mountain bike on trails...well, I probably wouldn't be. It really really needs a true spot beam for distance throw. A helmet mounted spot would round it out perfectly. If only that huge amount of spill could be thrown directly forward. :sigh:

Dang, I sure wish I still had some good 6v mr11 bulbs to compare to, but I seem to remember the prior spot/flood combo much more workable.



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