123 Battery Shoot Out
- Thread starter SilverFox
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js
Flashlight Enthusiast
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The eye opener for me was the temperature increase of the batteries when testing at 2 amps. I would venture an opinion that if a light draws 2 amps or more, thermal management is going to be difficult during long runs. The lamps and LED's are producing heat, and at these rates we have the batteries producing heat as well. Lithium cells have a thermal shut down protection system, and this may shed some light on why sudden shutdown occurs with some lights.
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You're not kidding, Tom. When I first tested my M6 on SF123's with the HOLA (2.5 amp draw for each stack of 3 123's) they got so hot by the end of the run that the shrink wrap was soft and almost gooey. Plus, the speed with which the light died makes me think that they went into thermal shut down. Temperature was on the order of 160F.
Anyway, thanks so much for this. Good work.
The eye opener for me was the temperature increase of the batteries when testing at 2 amps. I would venture an opinion that if a light draws 2 amps or more, thermal management is going to be difficult during long runs. The lamps and LED's are producing heat, and at these rates we have the batteries producing heat as well. Lithium cells have a thermal shut down protection system, and this may shed some light on why sudden shutdown occurs with some lights.
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You're not kidding, Tom. When I first tested my M6 on SF123's with the HOLA (2.5 amp draw for each stack of 3 123's) they got so hot by the end of the run that the shrink wrap was soft and almost gooey. Plus, the speed with which the light died makes me think that they went into thermal shut down. Temperature was on the order of 160F.
Anyway, thanks so much for this. Good work.
Brock
Flashaholic
How many tests did you run on each cell? I know when I do runtime tests they can vary by about 5% on the same brand of cells. That is why I run all my lights at least three times to get an average.
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Brock,
With the exception of the Energizer cells, I ran 2 cells of each brand for each test. I am finding rather consistent results between cells, but have not explored variations between batches. You will notice that I included a date in the post so I can come back and see if there are any differences in performance as time goes by.
If cost was no object, it would be ideal to run 5 tests from several different batches of each brand, however this is not possible at this time. If someone wants to donate a dozen cells of a specific brand, I would be happy to test them for consistency from cell to cell.
I need to do another run on the Energizer's. I have heard rumors of inconsistent results with Energizers, but it is hard for me to believe they would be so far behind the other brands. On the other hand, I may have gotten some bad cells. I have more on order and plan to update the data when I finish testing them.
I have also had several requests for a run at 0.5 amps and may gear up to do that as well.
Tom
With the exception of the Energizer cells, I ran 2 cells of each brand for each test. I am finding rather consistent results between cells, but have not explored variations between batches. You will notice that I included a date in the post so I can come back and see if there are any differences in performance as time goes by.
If cost was no object, it would be ideal to run 5 tests from several different batches of each brand, however this is not possible at this time. If someone wants to donate a dozen cells of a specific brand, I would be happy to test them for consistency from cell to cell.
I need to do another run on the Energizer's. I have heard rumors of inconsistent results with Energizers, but it is hard for me to believe they would be so far behind the other brands. On the other hand, I may have gotten some bad cells. I have more on order and plan to update the data when I finish testing them.
I have also had several requests for a run at 0.5 amps and may gear up to do that as well.
Tom
Brock
Flashaholic
Cool, at least with two you can tell if one is way out of wack.
Thanks
And keep up the great work!
Thanks
And keep up the great work!
kitelights
Flashlight Enthusiast
Police supply stores often carry them.
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John N said:
There might be a cheaper place, but Brightguy has 12 packs for $18.95.
-john
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Wow at that price it just makes the batterystation brand seem that much more of a value. Especially when you start to take a close look at the charts.
Curtis
John N said:
There might be a cheaper place, but Brightguy has 12 packs for $18.95.
-john
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Wow at that price it just makes the batterystation brand seem that much more of a value. Especially when you start to take a close look at the charts.
Curtis
voodoogreg
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks tom, that was very enlightening! In my short time as a 123 celled light owner, I have wondered about the "inexpensive" 123's surefire, and batt stn. I now feel pretty safe ordering up about 20-40 batt stn cells from them after this. I had ALL my SF's do the dead dance, and will not be buying them again. The duracell ultra's have been great but we all know how much more $$ they are, but they have shown really well in my E2d and E1e, stay bright longer, then a slow nice drift to less and less brightness, no shutting down like a light switch ala, SF and
the ones i got at the local cop store. (command's, says "made by kroll" same Company as the tail switch?)
And I don't see any need in testing any more energizer's. Two I used were noticeably less bright in the SF light's right from the start, and ran down quick. I won't tolate that in a batt the same price as a duracell. so till i find a good R123 rechargeables that will work in my incan SF's and ARC, I will go ahead and get some battery station's and when in a bind, pickup duracells.
I kid you not both energizer's bought in two different state's were equally crappy, and I think there AA alki's are not as long running as duracell either.
This thread helped me a lot. VDG
(at the moment,I am leaving my E1e on to finish up the eni in it. I don't even want that bunny batt to reside in one of my light's!)
the ones i got at the local cop store. (command's, says "made by kroll" same Company as the tail switch?)
And I don't see any need in testing any more energizer's. Two I used were noticeably less bright in the SF light's right from the start, and ran down quick. I won't tolate that in a batt the same price as a duracell. so till i find a good R123 rechargeables that will work in my incan SF's and ARC, I will go ahead and get some battery station's and when in a bind, pickup duracells.
I kid you not both energizer's bought in two different state's were equally crappy, and I think there AA alki's are not as long running as duracell either.
This thread helped me a lot. VDG
(at the moment,I am leaving my E1e on to finish up the eni in it. I don't even want that bunny batt to reside in one of my light's!)
Well, it looks like the Battery Station batteries are $1.25 each.
This is the same price as Surefire is selling theirs from their web site (in 12 pack).
The Streamlights work out to be $1.58, or $.33 more.
By comparison, Batteryspecialists.com sells the 8 pack lithium AA (L91) cells for $2.19 each.
I'd say all of these 123A cells are a pretty good deal.
-john
This is the same price as Surefire is selling theirs from their web site (in 12 pack).
The Streamlights work out to be $1.58, or $.33 more.
By comparison, Batteryspecialists.com sells the 8 pack lithium AA (L91) cells for $2.19 each.
I'd say all of these 123A cells are a pretty good deal.
-john
Billson
Flashlight Enthusiast
Battery station 123's are $1 each for CPF members.
SilverFox
Flashaholic
It was pointed out that my "Minutes" scale on the 1.0 Amp Rate graph was off a bit. I have taken care of that. Thanks Henry.
I am in the middle of the 0.5 Amp Rate testing and will add those results when I finish.
Tom
I am in the middle of the 0.5 Amp Rate testing and will add those results when I finish.
Tom
billw
Enlightened
> Though at 1.5A loads I tested at, through ten tests,
> showed the Energizer [E^2] slightly on top...
Huh? Where? the graphs you posted showed energizers consistantly on the bottom, with 'everyone else' rather closely clustered. Or were those the regular energizers rather than E^2 versions? Unless something was mislabled...
BillW
> showed the Energizer [E^2] slightly on top...
Huh? Where? the graphs you posted showed energizers consistantly on the bottom, with 'everyone else' rather closely clustered. Or were those the regular energizers rather than E^2 versions? Unless something was mislabled...
BillW
batterystation
Enlightened
Sorry to be late posting. We just moved and things have been hectic. It would appear that the cobolt issue did in fact help with the voltage under heavy loads with our battery. I owe some of that push to Mr.Bulk as it was the VIP that really forced the issue with such heavy current requirements. We continue to strive to improve our battery and not just slap a label on a battery though it started out that way. A lot has changed. Thanks again.
dano
Flashlight Enthusiast
Nice...Much more scientific than the stuff I've done. I'd like to see that test run with Ray-O-Vac silver label 123's (Which I can provide a paior for sacrifice, if you want).
The Batterystation results were somewhat surprising, beating out big name brands; I use them and they work fine.
Duracell and Streamlight cells are my favorite. Streamlight's seem a little bit "hotter" in terms of punch and runtime then the otehr cells I've used (except the Ray-o-Vacs).
--dan
The Batterystation results were somewhat surprising, beating out big name brands; I use them and they work fine.
Duracell and Streamlight cells are my favorite. Streamlight's seem a little bit "hotter" in terms of punch and runtime then the otehr cells I've used (except the Ray-o-Vacs).
--dan
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Dano,
PM sent.
Tom
PM sent.
Tom
