2-Mode Maglite 2C ML25LT (192 Lumen) questions

[TwiceFuzed]

I got my batteries from Amazon today. The amazonbasics C cell Ni-MH batteries are pretty heavy and have an Oct 2020 date on the wrapper of each battery. I checked the voltage of each cell and they were all at 1.325 to 1.326 volts each. I also opened one package of the eneloop AA to C adapters and the batteries were at 1.345 and 1.344 volts. The eneloops have a September 2020 date on them (20 - 09S0).











Gallery Link

I also checked the amp draw from the single mode 090 Led in my AA mini Maglite. With 2 freshly charged AA Rayovac 1350 mAh nimh batteries with a resting voltage of 2.82 volts, the 090 bulb initially draws 920 mAh and after a minute of so settles down to 830 mAh and stays there. If it is pulling ~830 mAh for the entire time it is on, 830 mAh X 1.25hrs would give me a capacity of 1,037.5 mAh out of these old nimh cells even at a relatively high amp draw. I think I have had these rayovac batteries for at least 10 years, maybe longer. I bought them for a digital camera I used to use and then they sat unused for 5 or more years. It's also worth noting that I used to charge these batteries in pairs with a dumb charger with a safety timer, it's safe to say that they were likely overcharged quite a few times when they were new.

My 2C Maglites have shipped and are should be here next Friday.

 

[xxo]

Looks like your ML25's will be well fed when they arrive! It's nice to have lights that can run on different cell sizes.

 

[TwiceFuzed]

I found this and thought I'd share. In addition to the 2D and 2-mode 2C ML25LT, it looks like the 245 Lumen Mini Maglite Pro Plus also used the 015 LED.

https://budgetlightforum.com/node/8080

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I found this and thought I'd share. In addition to the 2D and 2-mode 2C ML25LT, it looks like the 245 Lumen Mini Maglite Pro Plus also used the 015 LED.

https://budgetlightforum.com/node/8080

The module number might be the same. But that link says XP-G and you can confirm this from the green on the LED.

The ML25LT uses the XP-E2 LED. If the LEDs are different I guess the driver internals might be too, regardless of the number stamped on the top.

 

[bykfixer]

But does "015" for example mean the model of the pill itself, not the LED chip?
In other words an 015 pill with an XP G or an 015 pill with an XP E2 both fit in say, an ML25 or classic 2D for instance?

I hadn't really considered that, but often companies that mass produce products like cars or flashlights use the same parts in various models.
I'm thinking P60, 61, 90, 91, P60L etc type thing.

So perhaps for example the pill from the 245 lumen minimag in an ML25 would be quite different.
Cool stuff fuzed. Thanks

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

The pill design certainly looks interchangeable. Maybe the number refers to a voltage rating or something.

A 2 cell light will need a boost driver most likely, unless it is a form of linear driver. But 3.0v isn't really enough for the vf of most LEDs.

I've just put a multi meter on my ML25LT and it starts out at about 1.4amps and ramps up to just over 2amps over 30 secs or so. Which is consistent with the Lux/cd and lumen measurements I've seen. Ramping up slowly to attain the ANSI FL1 rating.

I have a Mini Mag, just a Pro not a Pro + not sure I thought it was 245 lumen, but might be wrong (EDIT: 272 lumen). The pill says 016 on it and it uses an XP-G2 but is single mode.

The Mini Mag pulls 1.36amps at start and drops reasonably quickly to 1.30amp and stabilises.


So I guess the module number could pertain to several things:

-physical fitment
-voltage range
-number of modes
-and regulation program (e.g. flat regulation, step down, gradual dimming)

It would be quite interesting to know.

 

[xxo]

I found this and thought I'd share. In addition to the 2D and 2-mode 2C ML25LT, it looks like the 245 Lumen Mini Maglite Pro Plus also used the 015 LED.

https://budgetlightforum.com/node/8080

The Pro Plus uses a accelerometer to access low mode.

 

[TwiceFuzed]

The 2D 015 LED does look different from the 015 in the AA Mini Maglite Pro Plus that I linked to earlier.

L to R: 2AA 090 Luxeon Rebel, 2D 090 Luxeon rebel, 2D 015, 2AA 106

 

[TwiceFuzed]

I put the 015 from my 2D in my 3AA mini maglite. You have to use a plastic retainer ring from a 2AA mini maglite to get the newer style emitters to fit in the 3AA light. On 3 nimh AA batteries at 3.90V: on high the light came on at 0.81 amps and peaked at 0.85 amps before it started to slowly ramp back down. On low, it comes on at 0.13 amps initially and then falls to 0.11 amps and stays there.... or at least it stayed there for the short amount of time that I tested it. The 015 output in the 3AA maglite appears to be about the same as it is with 2 nimh cells in a 2AA light. I think you could put the 2D 015 in a 3C ML25LT and have a 3C 2-mode with longer runtime than the 2-cell ML25, maybe. I don't know what the higher voltage would do to the module over the long term, but it seems to be ok from what I've seen so far. Others here are using the 2-mode 2C with lithium batteries in 3D printed adapters with success so I think 3 nimh or alkaline cells should be fine, in theory anyways.

I found that the 2 mode light takes 1.88v to even turn on and it's not very much light. It will run below below 1v iirc before it cuts off though.

@4.2v it only draws just over 500ma (don't have my notes on me)
However@ around 3v it's above 1A.
I'm using a power supply and it's a bit of a pain with this light. I'll get some readings together though.

I had it at 4.5v but didn't want to push it. That's all I have at the moment. I'll figure something out for adapters to start runtime tests. i will only do the high mode for now.

I could use a variety of sizes of a tenavolt.



Edit: before I started feeling under the weather today, i started to get current draw data. I didn't have it on the light meter but i found some interesting things. It may have to do with the stepdown you mentioned.

Around 4.15v-4.2v it started around 700ma, around 30 seconds in (not timed) the draw raised a bit then steadily started dropping. It took several minutes and didn't really level out. One reading got down to around 430ma.

I didn't really notice a drop in output, just draw. I'll work on it more tomorrow. I have a few ranges i want to check from 3v to 4.2v.

I also almost got it up to 5v today, kind of on accident. I was playing with the voltage to try and get a quicker reading, but it doesn't work like that on this light. Anyway, i almost bumped it to 5v. I'm thinking it might be safe to 6v, but I'm not ready to blow it up until my testing is done. Maybe if wallymart had more in stock, but this was the last one

Not a simple 1 2 3 but can be done.

19mm socket to the top of the switch, about 3-5 good whacks towards the tail and you get this...




^^ this is the LED assembly.



^^ top one has a TL3 bulb, and 1 amp Li-ions, bottom a 4 cell bulb and LifePo4's


^^ the gap filler material


^^ the 2 cell LT


^^ the modified 2 cell IT

Here you can see the difference in the old style module and retainer ring/adapter vs the newer plastic ring and module.

I currently have four generations of 2AA Mini-Maglites in my posession so I decided to do a photo essay on them to show the differences between them all.

They are: early Mini-MagLite, later Mini-MagLite, Luxeon Mini-MagLED, and later Rebel Mini-MagLED. Note that there was an earlier version of the Rebel Mini-MagLED that is the same size and has the same configuration as the Luxeon Mini-MagLED but has the newer Rebel LED module and plastic mounting ring. I don't have one of those currently. I do not know when the different versions came out. The Luxeon Mini-MagLED is a single-mode light that draws about 400mA from two NiMH cells at 2.4V resting. The later Rebel Mini-MagLED is a multi-mode light that draws about 220mA from the same batteries on high, about 50mA on low, and has blinking and SOS modes, all obtained by turning the light on, off, and on again quickly. The newest Rebel Mini-MagLED is visibly brighter than the older Luxeon MagLED, despite drawing less power from the batteries.

On to the pictures:
Left to right in all of the picture: Mini-MagLite, Luxeon Mini-MagLED, and Rebel Mini-MagLED

You can see the height difference between the three shows the old incandescent Mini-MagLite being the shortest and the Luxeon/early Rebel Mini-MagLED are the tallest and the newest Rebel Mini-MagLED is right in the middle, length-wise. The old Mini-MagLite belongs to csshih.

Here are the pictures of the lights dismantled:
The business end of the three lights

The heads taken apart

The light engines removed from their hosts

The body tubes

The last photo shows the differences between the ways that Mag has used to make contact between the tail caps. The incandescent Mini-MagLite uses bare aluminum on the threads. The Luxeon Mini-MagLED uses an exposed contact ring that can be seen inside the battery tube past the threads. The latest Rebel Mini-MagLED has bare aluminum on the end of the body tube.

The different tail caps

The incandescent Mini-MagLite tail cap has bare aluminum threads. The Luxeon Mini-MagLED has two metal contacts and an oversized spring. The last tailcap is not a Rebel Mini-MagLED as it has bare aluminum thtreads while the correct one has anodized threads and a ring of bare aluminum at the point where it makes contact with the body of the light.

Here you can see the differences between the incandescent Mini-MagLite and the current Rebel Mini-MagLED tail cap with the springs removed

You can see the larger hole on the left tail cap that is drilled deeper than the Rebel version

The Luxeon and early Rebel Mini-MagLEDs have a longer body and a different tailcap that is not compatible with the earlier and later Mini-MagLites nor with the later Rebel Mini-MagLED. The Mini-MagLite tail caps can be used with the latest Rebel Mini-MagLED flashlights if you remove the anodizing from the area of the tail cap that makes contact with the bare aluminum at the end of the body of the light. The tail cap used on the latest Rebel Mini-MagLED can be used on the Mini-MagLite if you remove the anodizing from the end of the flashlight body. The longer tailcap of the Luxeon Mini-MagLED is not compatible with either short
tail cap lights.

I've found an earlier version of the Mini-MagLite. The bodies, heads, tailcaps, and reflectors are the same but the early tail cap spring and bulb retaining system are different:

Early system on the right, current version on the left.

It's interesting to note that the two different LED modules are actually interchangable. The Mini-MagLED bodies are essentially the same as are the head and reflectors. The early Rebel Mini-MagLED is essentially the same flashlight as the earlier Luxeon Mini-MagLED but with a new module and retaining ring.

I even installed the older Luxeon module into my Rebel 2D MagLED to see if it would work and it did.

Of particular interest to lots of folks here on CPF are modifying these little lights. Here are four lights that I've modified:

From left to right: black cut down Mini-MagLite (currently waiting for a sandwich), silver cut down Mini-MagLite (going to put a Nite-Ize 3-LED drop-in into this one), blue cut down Mini-MagLite with Nite-Ize 3-LED module that I built for my grand nephew, metallic blue Mini-MagLite with a Sandwich Shop Mad Max Plus, custom heatsink, XP-G, and Nite-Ize IQ tail cap that I built for my daughter.

Yeah, my grand nephew could be the world's youngest flashaholic!

The longer Luxeon Mini-MagLED tail cap can be modified to work with the other Mini-MagLite/MagLEDs if you have access to a mill or lathe

The middle one is modified to work with the Mini-MagLite

Anyone else have any Mini-MagLites or Mini-MagLEDs to show?

https://flashlightwiki.com/Mag_Instrument

Here is a tear down of a 091 module:

Has anyone had any success harnessing the LED or driver from this module and adapting it for use elsewhere? I've taken one apart, but you have to practically destroy them to do so. The LED is reflowed onto a regular piece of PCB. Driver is pressed up into the connectors that are also reflowed to the bottom of the PCB. The only thing I can think to do is reuse the driver an put the LED on proper star.

I apologize for the clutter of random information. I'm just putting what I've found together and thinking out loud here. Let me know what you guys think and post any additional info that you have.

 

[bykfixer]

Like eating an elephant……one bite at a time but lots of info in one thread.
Thank you.

 

[xxo]

There are some differences in the drivers on the single and double mode 2C ML25's aside from the extra mode – the 177 lumen one mode runs on a single 1.2 Volt NiMH cell and a dummy while the 2 mode will not. Since the minimum Voltage is lower, I am guessing the upper limit may be lower too and it may be pushing it running the old single mode 2C ML25 on a Li-ion cell. If you want to run Li-ions, I would suggest using the 192 lumen two mode ML25. Another difference is that the old 177 lumen single mode runs flat out without a step down, while the 192 lumen dual mode has a step down.

 

[TwiceFuzed]

I got my ML25LT's yesterday. These things are great. The ML25LT out throws my 2D LED Maglite with the 015 LED. The ML25LT is almost like a small spotlight. I do prefer the beam of my LED AA mini Maglite for working indoors or up close but these ML25LTs are fantastic. I think these might be the best lights I've ever bought for the money.

 

[bykfixer]

When I first began using aa to c adapter cells I kept thinking I'd forgotten to put in the batteries because it was so lightweight.

Definitely an under rated flashlight. Many people dismiss them due to not even being 200 lumens.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

When I first began using aa to c adapter cells I kept thinking I'd forgotten to put in the batteries because it was so lightweight.

Definitely an under rated flashlight. Many people dismiss them due to not even being 200 lumens.

Has anyone done any lumen tests on the ML25LT?

I've got a basic testing rig at home.

It seems impossible to calibrate to get it to match lots of lights, but it does show relative output, i.e. if something is brighter or dimmer than another.


XL200 = 189 lumen @ 30 sec
272 Mini Mag Pro AA = 244 lumen @ 30 sec
Magcharger (incan @ 7.2v) = 346 lumen @ 30 sec
ML25LT = 276 lumen @ 30 sec
Olight S15 Baton = 242 lumen @ 30 sec
Coast HX5 (14500) = 260 lumen @ 30 sec

i.e. it is brighter than the 272 Mini Mag and the XL200. And brighter than other lights that all claim quite a lot more output than 192 lumen.

Maybe Mag have deliberately fudged the figure a little, so as to create a bigger perceived distance in performance to the models above? Or I guess it could just be an error on their behalf, either something as simple as a typo when someone was logging results. Or how they tested this light. Going from flood to spot or winding the head out a little too far does dramatically impact the results.

 

[xxo]

I got my ML25LT's yesterday. These things are great. The ML25LT out throws my 2D LED Maglite with the 015 LED. The ML25LT is almost like a small spotlight. I do prefer the beam of my LED AA mini Maglite for working indoors or up close but these ML25LTs are fantastic. I think these might be the best lights I've ever bought for the money.

Glad the ML25's found their way to you Twicefuzed - the ML25 is the best buy in the flashlight world that I know of. The LED Solitaire and AAA Mini Mag LED are pretty hard to beat for value as well.

 

[bykfixer]

I remember reading about the all new Maglite model. The 2 cell ML25. My initial thought was "retro", like an old wack-a-palm light from my youth with an LED and minimag reliability. I told all my friends about the "maxi-minimag"……
Soon I had colors and versions galore. Zbattery had both of the incan versions for $15 and $17. WalMart eventually got the 2 cell LT and Home Depot the 3 cell version.

I started out with a gray one with a red bezel ring from a ML25IT like a 1940's 2C Olin I restored. And soon after that it got 2 adapted eneloops. As fate would have it I tried a pair of 18500's in it. "Zzzzt" "pop"…… it lasted a couple of seconds in a super nova fashion. Not my best idea ever so back to WalMart for another gray one. And now I had parts.

Shortly after it was mentioned here that the 2 cell got an upgrade I grabbed one. Not some huge difference but 3x+ runtime was cool with me. The option of low was intriguing but I rarely use that. Before I got home from WalMart with my new 192 lumen version I had some borofloat from flashlight lens ordered. Again not some huge increase but noticeable side by side a stock unit.

I agree, it's definitely a value. I really like the ability to find the beam you prefer and use the tailcap like a twisty. Signal mode or full time.

My second first ML25LT with 1940's Olin safety light.
Fill light provided by an incan aaa minimag with a slightly diffused lens.

 

[xxo]

When I first saw the ML25's, I thought they would have been great back in the '80's but why now? Even the LED version seemed like a anachronism and I foolishly almost didn't get one because of the lumen numbers....hopefully that's mistake I won't make again.

 

[bykfixer]

I wondered why the incan version in 016 then read an article how Tony was making bulbs and California outlawed light bulbs so I figured he must've done an incan version to try to recoupe some of the cost of all those 2 and 3 cell bi-pin bulbs he had laying around.

I ordered a couple from zbattery early on and got S/N numbers like 17, 39 and 101. In 017 just out of curiosity I ordered one zbattery had on cleatance and the S/N was 12xxx so I doubt there were many incan versions sold. ZBattery still shows around 40 (total) in various colors the 2 cell and around 25 (total) various colors of the 3 cell. So if anybody wants one to hotwire with LifePi4 18500's and a 4 cell bulb (or 18650's and a TL3 bulb) get 'em while you can.

 

[xxo]

My guess is that the incan ML25 was intended for target to give them something different from the LED versions sold by wally world and home depot. Target seems to have sold incan Mags longer than the other box stores and may have thought there was a market for a incan ML25.

 

[bykfixer]

There is still a market for light bulb products be it ever so small anymore.
Back when my next door neighbor was "only" 87 she asked me to hold a 2 step stool so she could change her porch light bulb. In her southern Georgia drawl she says "these darn things keep blowing every few months". I said "I have LED's if you'd like one, and I'll change for you". She said "naw, those things hurt my eyes, my grand kids keep telling me I need to put them in my house but I just don't like 'em". Once the porch light bulb was replaced she said "you know anything about flashlights? Mine quit working". She handed me a 3D Maglite. The bulb was blown. She said "before he died one of the last things George told me was never leave batteries in the flashlight but if the lights go out how am I supposed to see to put the batteries in right?" I plucked the spare bulb from the tailcap and it worked again. Later on I put a spare from my stockpile in the tailcap and gave the light a good going over. I gave her a warm spectrum 2aaa minimag and an 8 pack of lithium batteries and said "you can leave these in the light".
She now has a whole home generataor and uses the minimag to light up instructions and other small print not knowing it's got an LED instead of a light bulb.

Now out of about 50 homes on my street there is that one neighbor who would still buy an incan flashlight.