2-Mode Maglite 2C ML25LT (192 Lumen) questions

[TwiceFuzed]

I was looking at getting a new Mini Maglite Pro Plus, but after doing some reading here i saw that a lot of people prefer the ML25LT instead due to the better throw and whiter LED color. Maglite now has a 192 Lumen 2-mode version that offers 7 hours of runtime on high and 72 hours on low. The single mode 177 lumen 2C was regulated and would run for 2 hours. The 3C version, which is still available is rated at 173 lumens claims to run for 18 hours. Actual reviews here say that the 3C will run at full output for 4-5 hours and then step down slowly to around 50% brightness by the 17-18 hour mark.
I have some questions for anyone that uses the 192 lumen ML25LT:

*How is the throw/brightness compared to the Rebel 2D maglites (090 LED)?

*How is the runtime on AA eneloop batteries in C adapters, does the tail spring make good contact with the battery in the adapter? The AA to C adapters can be bought in a 2-pack with 2 eneloop batteries for $7.99. I have a bunch of other eneloop batteries and several Panasonic smart chargers (BQ-CC17).

*Would I be better off with 5,000 mAh Ni-MH rechargeables? Amazon basics are 4 for $12.95, they claim to be good for 1,000 cycles, claim to be 'gradual discharge' and hold 80% capacity for 24 months and have the AmazonBasics 1-year limited warranty. I already have a smart charger that will charge C cells, so it wouldn't cost anything more than the cost of the batteries themselves. At just over $3 per cell you only have to recharge them twice to be in the clear financially versus alkaline batteries. A good Alkaline C will run you $1.50-$1.60 each.
*Is there a similarly sized and priced light that you prefer to the Ml25LT?

 

[xxo]

• The ML25 doesn't throw as well as my 3D LED Mag with an XP-E2 – the LEDs are the same, lumens are comparable but the ML25 has a much smaller reflector, though it still throws very well.
• AA Eneloops run fine in the ML25 in spacers - the springs make good contact. Run time for the 192 lumen 2 mode 2C is about 2 ½ hrs on standard AA Eneloops.
• Low self discharge NiMH C cells are great if you need more runtime, though they are not as good as eneloops when it comes to low self discharge and probably won't last for as many cycles. I have had good luck with soshine NiMH C cells, though I would guess that the amazon basics are good too, but I have never used them.
  
  Another option is protected Li-ion 18650 or 21700 cells in adapters, these are about a Volt higher than alakalines but seem to run fine in the 2 mode 2C ML25 (at least mine dose). A 5,000 mAh 21700 is probably the ultimate "fuel" for these lights in terms of run time.

 

[parang]

I run the 3C with 5Ah Powerex NiMh cells which I can highly recommend. They are nearly ten years old and still like new.

 

[bykfixer]

The ML25 uses a different spring than other Maglites like ML300. It's less stiff and causes no issues with a double a battery.

 

[TwiceFuzed]

What is the number on top of the LED?

Maglite has the 2-mode 2C on sale for $20 and the 3C on sale for $24. I just got an email for 10% off my cart total, they have free shipping on orders over $35. I can get two of the 2C lights for $38.16 or one of each the 2C and 3C for $41.98. Thoughts?

I don't know if anyone will see this here or not, but is there anything wrong with putting the emitter from a 2D light into an AA minimag? I have an old AA minimag that came with the multimode 69 lumen multi-mode Luxeon Rebel 090. I put the 2D single mode 090 Rebel pill/bulb into my AA minimag and it was really a big upgrade. It pulls about an amp from nimh AA batteries, but i should still get a couple hours of runtime from it and runtime isn't really a concern for this light. Will these emitters get too hot in an AA minimag?

I then pulled a 015 bulb from my 2D maglite, which I think is the 213 lumen 2-mode version rated at 16 and 127 hours high/low runtime in the 2D maglite. I placed it in my other AA mini maglite (originally a 106, 63 lumen) and it is a screamer from this AA light, it throws nearly as well as my 2D mag with a better spill and I suspect that it would compete with a mini maglite pro plus. If my math is right, you should be able to get around 3 hours on high and 24 hours on low with AA eneloops. It beats the socks off of the other AA minimag with the 2D rebel bulb in it and the low mode is very good, low with the 015 bulb is brighter than high on the original 63 lumen bulb. Is there anything wrong with doing this? It takes practically no time to change the bulb/emitter in the AA and it is a direct swap.

 

[xxo]

I generally prefer the 192 lumen 2C over the 3C because of the added low mode and shorter length, but sometimes the longer grip on the 3C is nice, like when wearing heavy gloves. It is also the right Voltage to run Li-ions and it gives longer run times when running alkalines and NiMH's.


I haven't swapped any LEDs in mini Mags, but I would think that those LEDs probably won't get hot enough to cause problems.

BTW are you switching the LED module assemblies? or are you re-soldering the LEDs?

 

[TwiceFuzed]

I generally prefer the 192 lumen 2C over the 3C because of the added low mode and shorter length, but sometimes the longer grip on the 3C is nice, like when wearing heavy gloves. It is also the right Voltage to run Li-ions and it gives longer run times when running alkalines and NiMH's.


I haven't swapped any LEDs in mini Mags, but I would think that those LEDs probably won't get hot enough to cause problems.

BTW are you switching the LED module assemblies? or are you re-soldering the LEDs?

I'm just swapping the module assemblies. The 2D lights have a spacer that slides into the switch, the Led module sits inside of the spacer. Once you take the pill/module out of the 2D spacer, the modules are identical.... a direct drop in. The module is held into the AA by a black plastic ring.

2D single-mode 090 on left. 2AA multi-mode 090 on Right.












AA mini maglite with emitter installed.


2D switch with bulb installed on left, AA bulb/module with retaining ring installed on right.

 

[xxo]

Cool! I wondered if the LED modules would interchange, but I never tried it. Should be pretty safe to do with these LEDs as they don't generate a lot of heat and I think(?) Mag has thermal regulation if they get too hot.

 

[bykfixer]

One thing I like about the 192 lumen version is where the beam starts when twisting the head to on. The first gen (both 2 and 3 cell) were like an incan minimag or solitaire in that when the head is twisted enough to activate the light switch the beam is hollow. More twisting is needed in order to reach the best beam point.
The second gen, or at least the ones I have start out near the ideal beam point. Yet there is enough twist required where the best beam isn't a 1 or 2 degree twist from off. Instead it is far enough from off to where there is a bit of room for error.
The 3 cell was never updated like the 2 cell was.

I use the tailcap for on/off mostly. If I need to use it in rain I'll twist the head for on/off just to prevent water intrusion from the rear.
I really prefer the 3 cell version of the first generation models. It's extra length provides more gripping area and also feels more substantial if using it as a hammer is required. Twirl it around and holding the head in the palm of my hand and tap, tap, tap if need be. Yet those extra lumens in the second gen model really come in handy for lighting shadows in light pollution.

The updated ML25 numbers

The original ML25 numbers

Hey TF, were you aware of the upgrade to the 2D classic where it too has a hi/lo option? 213 lumens that throws like crazy. The low is so hi that it's not really obviously on low. But it increases run time like crazy. It can be had in various colors at Maglites web store.

 

[TwiceFuzed]

Thanks for posting those LED numbers. I actually have a 2D with the 2 mode 015 LED (213 lumens). I put that 015 LED in my AA mini mag with a set of standard eneloops and it was impressive!
I just ordered two of the updated 2C lights from Maglite. I ordered 2 to get free shipping. I also ordered a set of four 5,000 mAh AmazonBasics nimh rechargeable batteries and two sets of the 2xAA to C adapters with standard eneloop batteries. I have a LiitoKala Lii-202 charger that I will charge the C nimh batteries with. The AA batteries in C adapters will give me an alternative power source while the C batteries are charging or as a backup set of batteries. I have several eneloop batteries.
The C nimh batteries should give me about 12 watt hours of power while the AA batteries will give me around 4.5 Wh in this 2 cell light.
A 5,000 mAh 21700 would give you ~18.5 Wh of power.
Amazon lumps all of the reviews for their rechargeable batteries together, but the few reviews that I could find for their C cell batteries looked good. One picture posted by a reviewer showed that the C cells had discharged on his charger/analyzer at almost exactly the stated capacity. The C cells are inexpensive at $12.95 for a 4 pack so if they provide decent number of cycles and runtime and don't leak in my lights I'll be happy. An 8 pack of the name brand alkalines that I used to use before I switched almost entirely to eneloops is $12.98. Like I said earlier, if I get 2 charge cycles out of these amazonbasics batteries I will not be any worse off financially than I would be going with alkaline batteries. I work outdoors at night and often run down and recharge my lights a couple times per week so rechargeable batteries make a lot of sense for me in that regard alone.

 

[bykfixer]

I keep primary's handy for times my light needs more fuel. Now in winter the alkalines aren't much use if stored in a cold climate. So if I even remotely think I'll need more fuel I carry what I think I may need in a vest pocket inside my outter layer.

As a rule I don't buy anything from Amazon. Unless it's the only available option I avoid them and buy products from authorized sellers. Between fakes and getting hacked I avoid Amazon and eBay.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I was looking at getting a new Mini Maglite Pro Plus, but after doing some reading here i saw that a lot of people prefer the ML25LT instead due to the better throw and whiter LED color. Maglite now has a 192 Lumen 2-mode version that offers 7 hours of runtime on high and 72 hours on low. The single mode 177 lumen 2C was regulated and would run for 2 hours. The 3C version, which is still available is rated at 173 lumens claims to run for 18 hours. Actual reviews here say that the 3C will run at full output for 4-5 hours and then step down slowly to around 50% brightness by the 17-18 hour mark.
I have some questions for anyone that uses the 192 lumen ML25LT:

*How is the throw/brightness compared to the Rebel 2D maglites (090 LED)?

*How is the runtime on AA eneloop batteries in C adapters, does the tail spring make good contact with the battery in the adapter? The AA to C adapters can be bought in a 2-pack with 2 eneloop batteries for $7.99. I have a bunch of other eneloop batteries and several Panasonic smart chargers (BQ-CC17).

*Would I be better off with 5,000 mAh Ni-MH rechargeables? Amazon basics are 4 for $12.95, they claim to be good for 1,000 cycles, claim to be 'gradual discharge' and hold 80% capacity for 24 months and have the AmazonBasics 1-year limited warranty. I already have a smart charger that will charge C cells, so it wouldn't cost anything more than the cost of the batteries themselves. At just over $3 per cell you only have to recharge them twice to be in the clear financially versus alkaline batteries. A good Alkaline C will run you $1.50-$1.60 each.
*Is there a similarly sized and priced light that you prefer to the Ml25LT?

Is size an issue? The ML25LT is quite a bit bigger than a Mini Mag AA.

Also bear in mind that runtimes are measured to ANSI FL1. This means they need to drop to 10% of their initial output. It does not mean they will maintain 100% brightness for that period.


As for throw, it depends really. For the money the Mag is ok. But it is still quite a low lumen output.

e.g. at 100 yrds:

Compare to a Convoy C8:

They cost about the same.

 

[TwiceFuzed]

Is size an issue? The ML25LT is quite a bit bigger than a Mini Mag AA.

Also bear in mind that runtimes are measured to ANSI FL1. This means they need to drop to 10% of their initial output. It does not mean they will maintain 100% brightness for that period.


As for throw, it depends really. For the money the Mag is ok. But it is still quite a low lumen output.

e.g. at 100 yrds:

Compare to a Convoy C8:

They cost about the same.

Thanks for the comparison shots! Size is not really an issue. I have a cheap 2C light that is about the same size as a 3C ML25 that fits comfortably in my pocket, the 2C Maglite is a couple inches shorter than it. My hope for the 2C light is that I can bridge the gap between my LED AA mini mag flashlights and my LED 2D Maglites. I think I can easily fit the 2C in my pocket and achieve much better throw than my AA mini Maglites. I have had several of the cheaper 18650 lights and don't like them. Even name brand lithium rechargeable batteries don't like the cold. I work outside in the cold (it's 20°F here now) and rely heavily on my flashlights, nimh rechargeable batteries do much better in the cold than rechargeable lithium batteries in my experience. I've been carrying LED Maglites daily for work for over 10 years and they have been nothing but reliable. There are always brighter options with more features but I like supporting American companies when I can and Maglite has a warranty that is untouched by anybody else. I ordered parts for six old LED Maglites recently, some of them are more than 10 years old. I got parts shipped to me to fix all 6 lights for less than the cost of one new 2D maglite.
I realize that there are better throwers with more lumens for the money but I wanted the reliability and solid build quality of the Maglite. I also really like how well the twist type Maglites are sealed. My LED solitaire has been dropped in water/mud many times and has been through several cycles in the washing machine and dryer with no ill effects.

I keep an LED spotlight as well as a 1,500 lumen light with a big flood beam in my vehicle. If I need more light, I usually have other options close by. I see the ML25LT as a compromise between good runtime, portability, and good throw. The 2C also gives you a lot of battery options.

 

[bykfixer]

I definitely prefer the ML25 to the AA minimag for work. The minimag is ok for lighting up a warehouse or garage when a broad light is ideal. My companion to the ML25 is the aaa minimag. It does not have the side spill of the double a version. So even though it's only 100 lumens it does a good job at lighting things up to 75 feet or so. And it stores like a nice, weighty inkpen.

If you can get the D sized LED in a minimag that would a bridge to the yellow brick road for sure.

I carry smaller, more powerful lights than the ML25 because they fit in my trouser pocket but the ML25 with eneloops rides in my truck door in summer. In winter it goes in my jacket pocket. I only work occasionally at night or in emergencies when a day shift turns to an all nighter. I also keep a 213 lumen 2D in the truck with batteries outside the light for those times really long runtime is needed. Dial it down to low and it throws just about as well as high.

Another goody is kinda pricey but oh my its bright. The ML150LRS. The S is for "short" as it's the size of a 2 cell ML50 but smaller than the classic 2C light was. I like the medium setting because that turns down the spill revealing the throwey center spot and greatly increases runtime. It uses a LifePo4 cell that reportedly works well down to 0 degrees.

 

[xxo]

I see the 192 lumen 2C ML25 as a upgrade from 2 AA lights like the Mini Mag Pro - it costs about the same, it's fatter but not much heavier or longer, gives a better grip which makes it easier to turn on with one hand and it runs well on multiple cell types (AA, NiMH C's, 18650's/21700's etc.). The ML25's beam pattern is about ideal for me - plenty of not too bright spill combined with lots of throw. I find that higher lumen lights often kill my night adapted vision.

For extreme cold, or for a light stored in a vehicle for emergencies, Energizer L91 ultimate lithium AA's are great - in a ML25 that draws about an Amp, they will last longer than alkaline C's and they are much lighter and don't leak. L91's cost is about the same as alkaline C's, so I consider them the obvious choice when it comes to primary cells.


I agree that the AAA Mini Mag LED is a excellent little companion to the ML25 when you need something smaller.

 

[bykfixer]

I climbed into my 24 degree vehicle this morning and the eneloop fed ML25 lit up just fine.

It has a tailcap with a wrist strap attached.
It's polished silver

A pair of holes at right angles.

The holes did not penetrate to inside the tailcap.

Basically I had a broken ML25 so I measured 1/8" down the shoulder and drilled a hole 1/8" deep with a 1/8" bit. Then on the flat end I measured 1/8" away from the edge and again drilled a hole 1/8" deep. That met the hole at a 90 angle. Then I inserted the wrist strap and pushed it forward with a toothpick. That revealed a bit of the strap to appear in the side hole. I tugged on it from the side with the toothpick and from there did what you do to loop the strap around itself. One could use a split ring if they choose and place the wrist strap onto the splt ring.

 

[TwiceFuzed]

I definitely prefer the ML25 to the AA minimag for work. The minimag is ok for lighting up a warehouse or garage when a broad light is ideal. My companion to the ML25 is the aaa minimag. It does not have the side spill of the double a version. So even though it's only 100 lumens it does a good job at lighting things up to 75 feet or so. And it stores like a nice, weighty inkpen.

If you can get the D sized LED in a minimag that would a bridge to the yellow brick road for sure.

I carry smaller, more powerful lights than the ML25 because they fit in my trouser pocket but the ML25 with eneloops rides in my truck door in summer. In winter it goes in my jacket pocket. I only work occasionally at night or in emergencies when a day shift turns to an all nighter. I also keep a 213 lumen 2D in the truck with batteries outside the light for those times really long runtime is needed. Dial it down to low and it throws just about as well as high.

Another goody is kinda pricey but oh my its bright. The ML150LRS. The S is for "short" as it's the size of a 2 cell ML50 but smaller than the classic 2C light was. I like the medium setting because that turns down the spill revealing the throwey center spot and greatly increases runtime. It uses a LifePo4 cell that reportedly works well down to 0 degrees.

I have put the 213 lumen 2D bulb (015) in an AA mini mag and it was a huge upgrade over the (106) 63 lumen bulb that it came with. The low mode from the 2D bulb is very useable in an AA mini maglite and should give you plenty of runtime (20+ hours if my math is right). I think the AA mini mag with the 015 should run the same amount of time as the 192 lumen 2C with the eneloops in AA to C adapters, I believe it is the same LED.

My other AA mini mag has a single mode 090 Luxeon Rebel from an older 2D maglite. The 090 appears to be regulated and will completely drain my 1350 mAh rayovac rechargeable AA batteries in about 1h15m. It goes from full brightness to a glow all at once. I really like the white color of the 090 Rebel LED. I haven't tried a runtime test with standard eneloops yet.

The 69 lumen multi-mode 090 Luxeon Rebel that the AA mini maglite came with was rated to run for 18h on high and 31h on low, I think. The single mode 2D with the Rebel 090 was rated at 114 lumens for 9h45m.

The 2C 192 lumen ML25LT looks like it has the same 015 LED as the 213 lumen 2-mode 2D light. It would be interesting to put the 015 LED in a mini mag and compare the 3 lights with the same bulb side by side.

I have a 100 lumen 2 AAA mini mag but I don't carry it much. It stays in my vehicle as a backup/extra light usually. I would actually like to have the 2 AAA in the 84 lumen version, it has 2 hours of additional runtime over the 100 lumen version and a higher beam intensity.

I almost always have an LED AA mini maglite and my LED solitaire on me when I'm working. The 47 lumen solitaire is a solid light and is actually my go-to light for a lot of things. The LED solitaire is regulated and will die suddenly with very little to no warning on nimh batteries.

 

[bykfixer]

One Christmas I bought a bunch of the 87 lumen aaa minimags but gave them all away. A place I buy Maglite paets from called zbattery still has some 87 lumen aaa minimags and 37 lumen solitaires if you seek spares.

Some here speak negative of eneloop pros but I've had no issues with them. I use them in direct drive lights like Coasts where they don't cause the light to dim as quickly as regular eneloops or disposable batteries.

That's amazing what the 2D LED in the minimag can do. It's a simple plug and play? All I have are 330 lumen minimags out of the package. I have a couple "3 watt" versions still in the package.

 

[TwiceFuzed]

Yes, the 2D maglite bulb fits into the AA mini mag with no modifications. The single mode bulb taxes the batteries pretty hard, the rayovac AA rechargeables get pretty warm in the mini mag powering the 090 Luxeon Rebel from a 2D. I'll have to get some amp draw readings from the tail cap for the 090 and 015 bulbs and post them.
I got an email, my 2C Maglites have shipped (no delivery date yet) and my C rechargeable batteries and AA to C adapters are supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I was looking around the house yesterday and I don't have any alkaline C batteries. I don't have hardly anything that uses them anymore. I usually keep a few alkaline AAA, AA and D batteries but I have switched to mostly nimh rechargeable batteries.

 

[bykfixer]

I didn't have any C batteries for a while either. One year when I walked the earth solo the power in my all electric apartment was cut during an ice storm. Stores were sold out of C and D batteries. So I bought a few jar candles and flashlights that take aa batteries. For years I did not keep C or D batteries because I didn't own anything that used them since during emergencies stores were always out of them.

Now I keep a stockpile for use in long running Maglites such as the 3 cell ML50 on eco mode, while tailstanding for ceiling bounce. Puts out the light of about 20 jar candles for several lights. I also keep D cells for the same reason. A 3 cell ML300 on eco is also. I use rechrageables for convenience but for emergencies I rely on old school fuel for my flashlights. In a year I might throw away 5 pounds or less of disposable batteries. Not very much waste in the grand scheme of things.

The ML25 was put on the market in Oct 2015 according to Maglite. I discovered them in March 016 and bought several. I called it my March Magness buying spree. I bought a few of the 3 cell versions for the really long runtimes and the 2 cell for fun at home or work.

Oh, and fyi the little rubber Streamlight Stinger LED anti roll collar fits the ML25 just dandy.