3watt single RCR123 Rechargeable Shootout

[UnknownVT]

V3 Construction

I experienced some flickering of the V3 -

Initially I thought it might have simply been the tailcap not being screwed down tight enough since the vital electrical contact is made via the body tube end and the retaining screw ring for the switch. Loosening and tightening the tailcap seemed to do the trick and sometimes even a simple gentle smack of the light would stop the flicker.

Then I started to get very dim output - again simple loosening/tightening of the tailcap, or gentle shock to the light would make it go away.

But I started to be concerned about this and took to cleaning all the contact areas and noticed that the "+"ve contact pcb in the head seemed to be loose - when I went to clean it I thought tapping it seemed to make sounds like it was not fastened down tight.

Ah! I went, and had to bite the bullet to try and open the head.

Bagged the light without battery - but with the tailcap screwed on for overall water-tightness - using two ziplock type baggies and placed in gently boiling water for about 5 minutes - then attempted to unscrew the assembly using household rubber gloves to aid grip and insulate from the hotness.

Could not budge where I thought the head screwed on to the body - and I really tried.

But the front bezel did come undone quite easily.

I managed to unscrew the LED assembly/heatsink from the inside the head/body.

Disassembled

The 3watt LED

The "star" was hardly fastened down - it has one screw which is also soldered for electrical conductivity - I could easily partially lift the star and but using a flshlight I could see there was no bin # so = "clone"?

Then I tried to figure out why the (pcb) board at the other end of the LED star heatsink/assembly was loose and see if I could fasten it down.

Well, there was absolutely NO fastening - the pcb for the "+"ve contact just sat in a recess on the heatsink.

Now we can see the back of the star - where there is no bin # (therefore = clone)

Pushing everything back together I found the star didn't really want to sit snug - and tended to lift on the opposite end of the soldered screw. I placed small drops of glue at the two directly opposite prongs of the star to hold the star down - then attempted to screw the assembly back.

Here's where my nightmare began - it just seemed that the LED heatsink/assembly didn't want to screw in properly - and this was difficult compounded by having to work down into the head tube. Eventually I figured out that it was best to set the LED heatsink/assembly as best I could in the head tube, then very carefully rotate the body/head tube and the threads caught and it was pretty easy to screw in the LED heatsink/assembly. Phew!

Of course the flimsy glue I used no longer held, and the star tilted - so I used a pin to get a small amount of glue to the same opposite prongs of the star and pressed to adhere. This time things seemed to be OK.

Placed the reflector, being very careful not to contact the mirrored surface (the reflector's silver coating looked very fragile) and centered the LED the best I could and replaced the front bezel. BTW - the lens is Plastic and not glass as another website selling this light seems to indicate.

I'm not sure if I've improved anything - and am sort of regretful for opening the light since I am now pretty concerned about the internal construction durability of this light - especially the thermal contact for the star.

I'd be grateful for some advice on the appropriate thermal conducting glue that I can use to fasten the star down and conduct heat well.

Thanks.

 

[adirondackdestroyer]

Unknownvt,

Do you think you could take some hallway pics of the Q3 with both regular batteries and a pic of the Q3 with Rechargables (and put them side by side).

Thanks alot !

 

[UnknownVT]

adirondackdestroyer wrote: "hallway pics of the Q3 with both regular batteries and a pic of the Q3 with Rechargables (and put them side by side)."

Stairs Shots - Nuwai Q3 on 3.6V RCR123 vs. Q3 on primary CR123A

see details in this thread "Practical" Beamshots?

 

[adirondackdestroyer]

Unknownvt,

Thank you very much! I have some rechargables, and I think I am going to buy a Q3 now. What is the runtime like on the 3.7v protected rechargable?

 

[glire]

The 3watt LED

The "star" was hardly fastened down - it has one screw which is also soldered for electrical conductivity - I could easily partially lift the star and but using a flshlight I could see there was no bin # so = "clone"?

This picture is interesting, it shows some components on the PCB star. It make me think about AW's LDO made also on a PCB star.

BTW, I find amusing (and distracting) this general concesus in CPF that if a "big" LED on a star PCB is not from Lumileds then is a "clone".
First, it's not easy to say for sure the emitter is not from Lumileds.
And second, there are many many LED manufacturers out there. IMO it's naïve to think that with Nichia, Osram, Cree and Lumileds we are seeing the biggest portion of the LED market share. Don't forget, most cheap flashlights (like these V1, v2, v3) are from China where ALL components can be found or custom made (I didn't say counterfait...).

You know what? I'm even starting to think that Fenix doesn't use Lumileds' LED. They say "Luxeon" on their website, without the ®. Luxeon® seems registered by Lumileds. I couldn'd find any mention about Lumileds or any ® after Luxeon word on Fenix website. It seems Luxeon is widely and abusively used to mean "high power LED". Don't you think?

Sorry for this intrusive OT

 

[UnknownVT]

adirondackdestroyer wrote: "I think I am going to buy a Q3 now. What is the runtime like on the 3.7v protected rechargable?"

Don't know, most people think it's in the region of 30-50 minutes.

Protected cells seem to be the way to go - as the reputed "inefficient" Q3's seems to be able to eke out more power from these RCR123's when the voltage sags and show dim on the LightHound V3 (there is still plenty of brightness on the Q3 - and with high current draw) see post #35 (linked) above.

 

[jsr]

BTW, I find amusing (and distracting) this general concesus in CPF that if a "big" LED on a star PCB is not from Lumileds then is a "clone".

Being in the discrete industry, I can tell you that many parts float around that are the actual brand name parts, but were rejected for some reason by the manufacturer for distribution to their standard OEM and sale channels, or are passing parts that got missing during assembly before all marking could be done, or by numerous other means. There are also buyers/resellers of discretes that hunt around for deals, regardless of where it comes from, binning, pass/fail, etc. and sell these to both small companies and even large OEMs (often times w/o the purchaser knowing the actual origin of the parts).

 

[UnknownVT]

It could just be an optical illusion -

but the LED in the Q3 seems to look somewhat different from those in the LightHound 3 watt lights (?)

 

[Kryosphinx]

That wouldn't be that surprising, seeing as the clones have luxeon clones in them.

 

[UnknownVT]

Kryosphinx wrote: "That wouldn't be that surprising, seeing as the clones have luxeon clones in them."

Thank you for the confirmation :huh: -

Did you see Post #45 and #47 (linked) above?

 

[Lunarmodule]

Vincent,

I'm sympathetic and shocked at your negative experiences with your V3. I have all three lights (V2 and V3 just a few weeks) and had a similar problem causing the early demise of a much earlier version of V1 (bought back in April or May 05).

Turned out there were some electronics in the tailcap and the solder joint connecting the spring had let loose, causing flickering/dimming/intermittent operation. John immediately sent me a new tailcap (free of charge) but sadly the problem remained afterwards, apparently some damage was done to the converter and the light was irrepairable by me.

I was a complete noob about LED electronics at the time so I didnt know if the converter was actually in the tailcap or what the function of the PCB with various components in the tailcap was at all. I just knew I could see the broken spring and solder joint and the intermittent operation rapidly declined to mostly dead.

John gave me a complete refund and I didnt revisit the clone models until just now with V2 and V3. I was very saddened by the death of my early V1 because it was a LOT brighter than any of my other Lux III lights and seemed to be a perfect mate for rechargeables, as John had stated. I LOVED that light and chalked it up to lack of build quality. Buying the V2 and V3 for me was a deliberate effort to re-experience the novelty days of the beginning of my LED flashlight fanaticism. Its also a nice break to spend $25 on a light that can shine brightly with my now virtual OCEAN of R123s (back then I had the Nano and 2x 800 mah unprotecteds.... and thought I owned the world.... SIGH) instead of $300 to $400 Lux III customs that are commonplace since I first began my hobby venture. For example, I have not one but two HDS EDCs, a U60XR and U85, whereupon I could have almost 20 V2 or V3s for the same amount of gold pieces.

Back to the present, I'm now scared about the reliability of my V2 and V3 but will keep running them and see what happens. One thing for certain, John has a sterling reputation with me and absolutely top rank in standing behind his wares so I can proceed without fear. You would be SOL purchasing one of these from an eBay reseller, especially those direct from China outfits.

I compliment your very well presented "autopsy" photos and very concise description of the assembly; I had actually considered buying several V3 lights and using them as DIY test beds for converter/emitter swaps for self-educational purposes. Thanks to you I now know exactly how they are put together, and where the weak links are. Thanks for taking all the time not only to prepare the excellent review but this very thorough follow up. Instead of simply posting "aaaaah, the darn thing just broke", you provided a valuable insight into overall Lux III general light construction as well. Commendable, indeed. Educational and informative. Loud cheers for that, sir! Carry on!

 

[jsr]

Yikes, now I'm concerned about my coming V2 (still in transit somewhere). If there turns out to be any issues, I'll use it as an experiment, like Lunarmodule, to educate myself and toy with modifying. I love the design of the V2, so if it craps out and I can turn it into a great light with different electronics and internals, that'd be fine too. Hopefully it doesn't crap out tho.

 

[UnknownVT]

Lunarmodule wrote: "I'm sympathetic and shocked at your negative experiences with your V3."

Thank you for the kind words and sympathy.

My V3 became more and more unreliable - it was almost norm for it to turn on in a dim state and I'd have to smack it to get it to be bright.

I was almost resigned to regarding this as an involuntary two stage - except, the dim state wasn't reliable - sometimes it seems to be in the range of about 1/2 to 1 watt brightness - other times it was almost as dim as a single 5mm LED, and once in a while it'd turn on at full brightness - aarrrrgggg!

Instead of getting angry I stopped to think about this and decided it obviously was a bad connection somewhere - and it seemed from experience like it was a dry (bad) solder joint.

So biting the bullet again I disassembled the light - and this time tried in real earnest to unscrew the head from the body - I took everything out/off including the O-rings - so all I had left was the body tube and the head attached - placed the thing directly in boiling water for over 5 minutes and used household rubber gloves and twisted hard - it still would not come undone.

I really think the head is attached to the body by screw threads - but done in such a way that the threads are permanently attached. eg: like they were machine screwed down so tight that the threads actually have tapped/bitten into the aluminum - so it would take much higher torque to unscrew it than I am capable by hand - since I did not want to resort to using wrenches - I did the obvious thing - I gave up trying to unscrew the head from the body tube.....

OK while I had the LED heatsink/assembly out I examined the solder joints - I could not see a bad joint - but that's exactly what one should expect, a dry/bad solder joint is so awkward because one normally can't see it. So I had to resort to sledgehammer tactics - I simply re-soldered the blob of solder connected to the screw on the top of the star.

Then I took a look at the solder joint connecting the wire to the "+"ve contact pcb board - it looked OK ..... then the board fell off the wire - ah-ha!
It was simple to strip the wire and re-solder it back to the blob.

Re-assembly was not quite as fraught as before - but it still was not a picnic - the LED heatsink/assembly took a few tries before the threads eventually caught and I was able to screw it back in - at least I knew to seat it best I could, hold it in place and rotate the body to screw it in........

Replace the reflector and by trial and error got the LED centered and checked the beam - re-adjust and check again repeat until I got the best beam within my patience tolerance.

It's been over 29 hours since I completed that, and not once has the light flickered or dimmed -
so perhaps I have cured that problem.

So the V3 is back to being a fabulous light
(although I have doubts about its internal construction)

I am still seeking advice on the correct thermal conducting cement/glue to hold the star in place on the heatsink properly - although I am surprised the small amount of household plastic glue seems to be holding the star down fairly well.

 

[glire]

I compliment your very well presented "autopsy" photos and very concise description of the assembly; I had actually considered buying several V3 lights and using them as DIY test beds for converter/emitter swaps for self-educational purposes. Thanks to you I now know exactly how they are put together, and where the weak links are. Thanks for taking all the time not only to prepare the excellent review but this very thorough follow up. Instead of simply posting "aaaaah, the darn thing just broke", you provided a valuable insight into overall Lux III general light construction as well. Commendable, indeed. Educational and informative. Loud cheers for that, sir! Carry on!

Lunarmodule said it. Bravo Vincent.
I purchased the V2 for the same self educational purpose because it has a good design and excellent finish IMO. I wish these flashlights be easier to open and dismount with no damage.

 

[Lunarmodule]

Vincent,

I dont know how I missed your query the first time, but I got carried away with my long winded post. Answer is Arctic Alumina epoxy, found commonly at computer parts stores and some Radio Shack locations. It is an excellent adhesive emphasizing thermal conductivity as its reason for being. Its THE chemical tool for the job.

I am in awe of the amount of effort and time you placed into repairing this light. Then again seeing how painstakingly you organize your beamshots and integrate them with the concise text, the persistence in personality conveyed by that is evident. I'm sure John would have just sent you a new one, but I can identify with the nagging desire to want to fix it yourself. I wish I had the skills when my old V1 suffered a similar malady. Great follow up!

Look forward to more Unknown_VT reviews

:goodjob:

 

[UnknownVT]

Lunarmodule wrote: "Arctic Alumina epoxy, found commonly at computer parts stores and some Radio Shack locations. It is an excellent adhesive emphasizing thermal conductivity as its reason for being. Its THE chemical tool for the job."


Thanks for the advice....
epoxy - does this mean a pretty permanent bond, fixing the star to the heatsink?

I'm kind of looking for some glue about the strength of regular household plastic cement which will hold pretty well but can be removed - ie: something slightly better than "temporary" - which will resist heat and shock - but be relatively easy to remove.... is there such a thing?

Now that I have the V3 fixed - I thought I'd take some more current draw readings, comparing with the Q3

V3 = 0.81A
Q3 = 0.81A

Notice the V3 reading is now 0.81A compared to the readings I got in the opening reviw of about 0.78A then 0.68A - this is noticably more.

So I re-did my side-by-side beamshot with the Q3 -

the original Q3 vs. (pre-fixed) V3 beamshot -

It's hard to tell, the V3 might be marginally brighter than before - but this could also be sheer wishful thinking - remember the way to look at these beamshots is NOT to compare between different photos - as the exposures can be different - but look at the difference between the beams in the SAME photo -

Like I said it's marginal - but in the two sets of beamshots the V3 seems a shade brighter than the Q3 and there seems to me to be more difference with the fixed V3 - ie: it seems a bit brighter.

 

[UnknownVT]

I forgot to update this thread.

I did some "Practical" Beamshots? pt.2 (outdoors) (link) as these seemed appropriate for more powerful flashlights - please take a look in that thread for more lights - but I did the LightHound V3 3watt and the Nuwai Q3 both on 3.6V rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123

Nuwai Q3 on 3.6V RCR123 .................................................. ..... LightHound V3 - 3watt 3.6V RCR123

for comparison reference
3D MagLite .................................................. .......................... Scorpion xenon 2x CR123

 

[ronzor]

HI,
this v3 is a great little light,got mine a year ago from swwholesale.

today i fitted a seoul to this light,[the head wás tight,but after boiling it did come off].


here is the light with the old star:



http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=image&file=3299v3.jpg

seems it was a genuine lumileds after all

 

[cratz2]

I quite enjoyed this thread the first time around.

Anyone have a V2 light they'd care to part with for reasonable $$$? I quite like how they look and would like to try to mod one.