A new take on reverse clickies as "tactical" - Might make you think..

[FLT MEDIC]

I am looking for another light to use in these situations, but if I had to use my PD30.. I would never worry or think twice.

You mentiond above that you are "looking for another light to use in these situations" so I posted why a Gladius or a Typhoon H2X II features are much better than a reverse clicky like the PD30.

Hope the ones using reverse clickies in your team don't get shot in a real call someday. Good luck.

 

[Search]

It is proven. And I am an LEO, and HAVE been through stressful situations. Also, it's been stressed to myself and my brothers over and over again that fine motor skills go right out the window during high stress situations.

Even during rapid deployment training scenarios, I've observed that fine motor skills are somewhat lost -- and this is when
"people like me" know that no one is going to die.

I could find you at least a dozen ERU team members that would tell you reverse clickys are a no, the noise is an issue, dropping the light is an issue, every single little preventable thing is an issue.

Seriously though, I don't want to turn this into a big thing -- You like them, that's fine. I'm strongly opinioned against them myself. We can agree to disagree. Maybe I worded it too strongly when I said "they suck". But that's how I feel.

Settled.

I had no issues in using mine in a scenario. Given only a scenario.

I do know people who have had success in using them in the real thing.

I would tell people to not plan to use one, after a little more thought.

I should have said, I find that they aren't as bad as people make them out to be. They can be used with success.

I'll leave it at that

Good luck my friend, stay safe.

Good job too! I heard you guys found that kidnapped chinese girl. Never get to hear what the LEOs do in Canada much. Only bad news travels far sometimes.

 

[Rverdi]

I think we need to be careful when making blanket statements about the abilities of humans to perform functions involving fine motor skills under stress. If all ability to perform these functions under stress "went out the window" we would be unable to do much of anything under stress, including a very important fine motor skill, pressing a trigger! We do manage to do these things, however, because we train properly and our bodies learn to perform fine motor skills which have been committed to subconscious operation thru repetition.
Do I think a reverse clicky is the best tool for hunting bad guys? Probably not. But I never underestimate the ability of motivated humans to adapt to their equipment and make it work.

 

[csshih]

I would just rather see, in the future, people saying things like "IMO a reverse clickie has it's benefits but it has its disadvantages. Here are examples: blah blah" instead of "no, never use them, they suck".

Reverse Clickies indeed do have their benefits, one of them being what you outlined in your story above.

I was also under the impression that revere clickies were more reliable, and that, would probably be very important.

I've never been in a highly stressful situation.. but If I were suddenly scared.. I'd drop the light.. oh, and the gun too. I'm sure that sound would give me away pretty quickly, light on or off.


I'll take you up on the paypal offer.
I'm outta cash
see this thread:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=190926

 

[Search]

I think we need to be careful when making blanket statements about the abilities of humans to perform functions involving fine motor skills under stress. If all ability to perform these functions under stress "went out the window" we would be unable to do much of anything under stress, including a very important fine motor skill, pressing a trigger! We do manage to do these things, however, because we train properly and our bodies learn to perform fine motor skills which have been committed to subconscious operation thru repetition.
Do I think a reverse clicky is the best tool for hunting bad guys? Probably not. But I never underestimate the ability of motivated humans to adapt to their equipment and make it work.

Thank you for knowing exactly what I was trying to say lol

Reverse Clickies indeed do have their benefits, one of them being what you outlined in your story above.

I was also under the impression that revere clickies were more reliable, and that, would probably be very important.

I've never been in a highly stressful situation.. but If I were suddenly scared.. I'd drop the light.. oh, and the gun too. I'm sure that sound would give me away pretty quickly, light on or off.


I'll take you up on the paypal offer.
I'm outta cash
see this thread:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=190926

I laughed at the link lol

I didn't think about dropping it until it was mentioned earlier, but it would not be a good thing.

The sound of a clickie however doesn't really seem to be that much noise to matter.

If the "bad guys" know you're coming for them, which is by no means uncommon, they will know when you're in the building or house or whatever. When we train it isn't a matter of not letting them know you're in there. No one has night vision sneaking around like ninjas.

We popped around corners with a light for a split second and if we saw someone we would go from there. Either running in there with no lights then popping them on or kneeling down then poking out for a quick shot.

If you can't hear boots on floors or guys shuffling around, you aren't going to hear a click.

Like said earlier, high stress situations get to you. If you hear a click over your breathing, it still wont really tell you when and where to shoot.

Given I said that, no one tries to make noise either. It is not a big deal unless someone makes it a big deal by making more noise than you can help.

After all of this. I think it's easy to say everyone has come to the same conclusion.

Reverse clickies can be used in tactical situations if needed. However, they aren't exactly preffered.

I don't think anyone should be worried because they have to go into one with a reverse clickie.

I just wanted to share some input and see what everyone thought and I appreciate the comments.

Next time I'm going to see if a multi mode forward clickie like the E2DL has any problems that hinder ME from wanting one.

If not I'm going to find a single mode light. Or see if I can find a single mode version of the E2DL from someone on B/S/T.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

i guess different folks different strokes? the TS being 1 of the very few who could use a reverse clickie in the given situation.

**for 1, i've never in any stressful situation save for looking for cockroaches hiding in dark corners of my home...:nana:

 

[foxtrot29]

Settled.

I had no issues in using mine in a scenario. Given only a scenario.

I do know people who have had success in using them in the real thing.

I would tell people to not plan to use one, after a little more thought.

I should have said, I find that they aren't as bad as people make them out to be. They can be used with success.

I'll leave it at that

Good luck my friend, stay safe.

Good job too! I heard you guys found that kidnapped chinese girl. Never get to hear what the LEOs do in Canada much. Only bad news travels far sometimes.

It's funny how people can feel so strongly about equipment. It's a good thing we aren't talking guns! :laughing:

+1 on the bad news. The public isn't usually interested in hearing about anything else.

 

[Search]

It's funny how people can feel so strongly about equipment. It's a good thing we aren't talking guns! :laughing:

+1 on the bad news. The public isn't usually interested in hearing about anything else.

I can understand exactly why people do not ever recommend a reverse clickie for these situations.

I just wanted it to be known they could be used with success and can do the job well if needed, but not what you should count on to begin with.

When I read the news or get newsletters I look for the good stories. I get enough bad stories in training when they say don't do it like this

I do wish we had a sub forum for guns. It would be a nice place to discuss weaponlights and holsters. Finding a right combo is a hard thing for some people.

Maybe an admin will read this lol

 

[baterija]

I just wanted it to be known they could be used with success and can do the job well if needed, but not what you should count on to begin with.

...and I appreciate that aspect. The thread did add to my awareness by making me think about proper management of a reverse clicky if I am stuck in that situation. That's valuable.:thumbsup:

It can be easy for people to talk about what's ideal in a very narrow set of circumstances without looking at tradeoff across the whole span of uses for a tool. It's valuable to step outside that box. The ideal room clearing light might not meet all the other lighting needs. Every choice is compromise. In effect the PD30 was your backup light, with the levels/UI being useful for other duty functions, and you trained to use it when your primary wasn't available.

Now if we're just sticking me in a situation right outside the building, where everyone is known to be hostile, I'm not concerned about the building, and I can pick any equipment I want for lighting, then this is my choice.

Sometimes that's not appropriate or available though. :mecry:

 

[hyperloop]

if it works for you, it works, 'nuff said. End of the day, as long as the job gets done, isnt that all that matters?

 

[Search]

if it works for you, it works, 'nuff said. End of the day, as long as the job gets done, isnt that all that matters?

"So that everyone goes home at the end of the shift"

Something similar to that is probably said or seen at roll call.