Advice on Surefire LX2

[chanjyj]

I've been thinking of purchasing an LX2. I'm a rather unique light purchaser ad don't always look for CPF standards like "perfect beam" etc so I need some advise

I can't find much detail on the net regarding a few issues so need to seek personal opinion:

1. Waterproofing
Am anally retentive about this, even if it borders on insanity but nobody can change me in this area. Any idea if the LX2 can go underwater? The G2 leaks immediately, and the mileage varies among ALL surefire lights so I am very concerned.

It's unlike Fenix where all lights have a waterproof rating (and in my tests, all Fenixes have stood up to that rating - and beyond). When it comes to waterproof lights, I only have 2 choices: Fenix and HDS at this point in time. Prevention of water ingress is always my FIRST priority

2. Rechargeables
Use of rechargeables BESIDES RCR123. I don't like the cost of CR123, and the runtime of RCR123 doesn't cut it. Hence my usual preference is 18650s. The Surefire doesn't fit 18650s so am thinking of 17670s. Apparently they don't fit as well.

So I'm curious - do you use rechargeable, and if so what size? How does the overall brightness get affected compared to CR123 and runtime?

3. Regulation
The LX2 seems to be not-fully-regulated. Damn, I thought this was a nice light for me

If it's not fully regulated on CR123s can anybody advise on rechargable options and regulation?

4. LED and Optics
Some reports speculate the LED to be XP-E. Anybody knows?

The LX2 uses TIR optics, which I'm not familiar with. Beamshots look nice, but I would like to know how TIR optics work (new area for me). Can't find a link or useful article. Rather off-topic, but can anyone point me to something which explains TIR to a layman?
[/LIST]

Thanks!

 

[ooohfishy]

sorry I'm new to candlepower forums and new to lights in general.

but I just purchased the Lumamax LX2 (love it so far)...

while doing research I was hoping to find a video or see samples of the waterproofness of this flashlight. I don't think I'm daring enough to give it a try yet. so I was hoping someone might've been daring enough in here to try it... curious myself...

 

[PeaceOfMind]

I'll answer a few of the questions:

Waterproofing: I believe Surefire rates it to be Waterproof to 1m depth. Since they're pretty conservative I wouldn't worry too much about this aspect. It's not a dive light, but can be submerged.

Regulation: The light is regulated when the batteries are strong enough to keep it in regulation, I'm not sure what is making you say it's not regulated. BigC's integrating sphere tests showed it to be regulated on RCRs as well as CR123s. I won't comment on the use of other rechargeables - I'd personally recommend CR123s as recommended by Surefire.

The LED is a Cree XR-E, not XP-E. Likely an R2 but Surefire doesn't specify.

TIR is short for Total Internal Reflection. This might get you started on the physics behind it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_internal_reflection

Basically the TIR optic throws nearly all of the light from the LED forward as the angle of the light inside the lens causes it to reflect off of the insides. The TIR produces a very tight hotspot (great for throw) but not very much spill light.

 

[chanjyj]

I'll answer a few of the questions:

Waterproofing: I believe Surefire rates it to be Waterproof to 1m depth. Since they're pretty conservative I wouldn't worry too much about this aspect. It's not a dive light, but can be submerged.

IIRC it's only "weatherproof" in the Surefire website. Surefire won't commit to anything other than that so I'm hoping someone else with prior experience will chime in.

Regulation: The light is regulated when the batteries are strong enough to keep it in regulation, I'm not sure what is making you say it's not regulated. BigC's integrating sphere tests showed it to be regulated on RCRs as well as CR123s. I won't comment on the use of other rechargeables - I'd personally recommend CR123s as recommended by Surefire.

From http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=236383

The LED is a Cree XR-E, not XP-E. Likely an R2 but Surefire doesn't specify.

TIR is short for Total Internal Reflection. This might get you started on the physics behind it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_internal_reflection

Basically the TIR optic throws nearly all of the light from the LED forward as the angle of the light inside the lens causes it to reflect off of the insides. The TIR produces a very tight hotspot (great for throw) but not very much spill light.

 

[PeaceOfMind]

As the the weatherproof/waterproof thing, I swear it used to say Waterproof to 1m in their specs! I think they must have changed it. I've had mine submerged before if that makes you feel better, although I've never had it to any depth.

And as to the regulation, that graph shows that it is regulated on 2xCR123 but not on 14650. Keep in mind that LEDs drop off in brightness quite a lot as they heat up, and that will account for a large portion of the initial drop off in brightness you see in the graph. Following that you can see a pretty sizable period of basically flat output until a pretty clear point where the batteries can't provide the power anymore and it drops out of regulation. If it were not regulated on CR123s you'd see continual decline in brightness like you do for the pink 14650 line in the graph. Of course on high level it isn't showing the best most flat regulation, but it's not bad at all for the amount of power it's putting out.

 

[PeaceOfMind]

while doing research I was hoping to find a video or see samples of the waterproofness of this flashlight. I don't think I'm daring enough to give it a try yet. so I was hoping someone might've been daring enough in here to try it... curious myself...

I can take some photos of mine submerged completely in water if that helps. Just in the sink though, I wouldn't trust it to too much depth.

 

[experimentjon]

Noob question here. So, since you can submerge the LX2 in a sink, would that mean that it'd be okay in heavy rain? I don't plan to ever submerge my LX2, but I might have to use it in heavy rain and wind.

 

[PeaceOfMind]

Noob question here. So, since you can submerge the LX2 in a sink, would that mean that it'd be okay in heavy rain? I don't plan to ever submerge my LX2, but I might have to use it in heavy rain and wind.

Heavy Rain won't be a problem.
If it's going to see a lot of water, remember to keep the o-rings clean and lubed.

Maybe these shots of mine completely submerged in a Nalgene bottle will put people's minds at ease. It was in there for a few minutes. No problems.

And in some snow for good measure:

 

[chanjyj]

Heavy Rain won't be a problem.
If it's going to see a lot of water, remember to keep the o-rings clean and lubed.

Maybe these shots of mine completely submerged in a Nalgene bottle will put people's minds at ease. It was in there for a few minutes. No problems.

And in some snow for good measure:

Thank you so much. Really thanks - few people will bother to do the tests, take pics and upload them specially.

This is what I mean by "real-life tests".
Not normal ratings. This inspires confidence!

Just a question: was there any water ingress after 1min (did you check the O rings), and was it a static test, or was the bottle shaken to agitate the water (to remove trapped air bubbles and provide momentum to the water which would provide greater pressure (hence greater depth resistance).

(There have been some disagreements if you want to know why I am so happy to see real field tests: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3489251&postcount=40)

 

[PeaceOfMind]

Just a question: was there any water ingress after 1min (did you check the O rings), and was it a static test, or was the bottle shaken to agitate the water (to remove trapped air bubbles and provide momentum to the water which would provide greater pressure (hence greater depth resistance).

There was no water ingress at any of the o rings or into the head. The body was completely dry inside and beyond the o rings, and there was no water visible looking into the lens. It was submerged for probably 5 or so minutes. It got shaken around a little bit, and I had it in head up and head down as you see in the pictures, however I didn't go to any great lengths to really agitate it. I certainly wouldn't trust it as a dive light or anything, but the o rings are a good tight fit and water protection should be at least as good as any other light that depends on o rings to keep water out of the body.

Note that I am careful to keep the o rings clean and lubed and this should help somewhat to maintain water tightness.

 

[ooohfishy]

WOW! Thanks PeaceOfMind, those images help tremendously!!! Thank you!

 

[UnderTheWeepingMoon]

The two-stage switch used in the LX2 and other SF lights can be susceptible to increased O-ring wear when compared to single-stage twisties, due to the relatively long travel of the switch. For that reason, I wouldn't recommend putting the LX2 through the kind of use that involves submersion for long periods of time.

If water resistance is the number one priority, I suggest the OP take a look at Barbolight.

 

[PeaceOfMind]

The two-stage switch used in the LX2 and other SF lights can be susceptible to increased O-ring wear when compared to single-stage twisties, due to the relatively long travel of the switch. For that reason, I wouldn't recommend putting the LX2 through the kind of use that involves submersion for long periods of time.

If water resistance is the number one priority, I suggest the OP take a look at Barbolight.

Despite my insistence above that the LX2 is waterproof, I totally agree with UnderTheWeepingMoon here. If you're truly looking for something to use underwater or for something that is going to be under water on a regular basis, then there are better more waterproof offerings out there designed for such use. However if you're just worried about rain or dropping your light in a puddle or snow bank or something, the LX2 will be fine as long as you care for the o rings.

I also wouldn't recommend twisting the tailcap or anything like that while it is under water!

 

[pseudoblue]

Yeap, the LED is an XR-E but no info of which binned. Tint is white, but warmer or more yellow than the XP-G's cool white tint.

Regarding rechargeable option, other than BigC's test with RCR, I've also gathered info from a friend who had used 2x RCR123 and it doesn't seem to have problems. I am currently using 2x AW LifePO4 123 for 2 weeks now, no issues of flickering, no problems.

 

[pjandyho]

Although I have dunked my LX2 in water, it was never in water deeper than a few centimeters. I would suggest you refrain from the LX2 if you intend to take them to 10m or 20m. The tail cap fitting on the LX2 feels a little loose and wobbles a little when totally locked out. I have my suspicion that LX2 would be truly submersible to great depths. How deep it could go before water ingression remains unfathomable till now as I doubt anyone has ever tried it with the LX2. Anyway, due to the nature of the tail cap design being a push button 2-stage tail cap, I believe the water pressure from such depths would definitely activate LX2.

E2DL would probably be a better candidate if you are looking for a 2-stage light that is powerful and probably could withstand deeper submersion in water.

 

[DimeRazorback]

The tail cap fitting on the LX2 feels a little loose and wobbles a little when totally locked out.

Why on earth would you intentionally dunk it in water when it is in the locked out position?
The only reason for locking it out is during transport in a bag etc.

Also, when locked out it appears that only half of the threads (if not less) are 'engaged' hence why the tailcap 'wobbles'.

E2DL would probably be a better candidate if you are looking for a 2-stage light that is powerful and probably could withstand deeper submersion in water.

The E2DL is known to have issues with water entering through the tailcap when submerged for prolonged periods of time.
I believe Search has a rather extensive thread on the topic.

The LX2 is definitely more water resistant than the E2DL.

 

[pjandyho]

Why on earth would you intentionally dunk it in water when it is in the locked out position?
The only reason for locking it out is during transport in a bag etc.

Also, when locked out it appears that only half of the threads (if not less) are 'engaged' hence why the tailcap 'wobbles'.

I don't think I specifically said I dunked the LX2 in water when it is in lockout. Did I? I was just trying to tell the OP that the tail cap feels a little loose in lockout and leaving him to make his own decision. We can't always expect everyone to always have the LX2 on standby mode even if we do ourselves. I already know a few who have the 2-stage twisty locked out even when the light is in their pocket.

 

[DimeRazorback]

Probably not, I just skim read. My apologies for any offense caused.

I'm very tired :tired: :sleepy: :laughing:

 

[pjandyho]

Probably not, I just skim read. My apologies for any offense caused.

I'm very tired :tired: :sleepy: :laughing:

No need to apologize. Not offended at all. It is quite easy for people to misunderstand each other on the internet.

 

[chanjyj]

Although I have dunked my LX2 in water, it was never in water deeper than a few centimeters. I would suggest you refrain from the LX2 if you intend to take them to 10m or 20m. The tail cap fitting on the LX2 feels a little loose and wobbles a little when totally locked out. I have my suspicion that LX2 would be truly submersible to great depths. How deep it could go before water ingression remains unfathomable till now as I doubt anyone has ever tried it with the LX2. Anyway, due to the nature of the tail cap design being a push button 2-stage tail cap, I believe the water pressure from such depths would definitely activate LX2.

E2DL would probably be a better candidate if you are looking for a 2-stage light that is powerful and probably could withstand deeper submersion in water.

Did alot of checking prior to posting this thread, and the personal opinion I've come to is the LX2 is actually more water-resistant than the E2DL.

That have been documented threads on E2DL tailcap letting in water. So far, nothing of that sort for the LX2.

For the LX2 I don't intend to bring the light more than 5m, even for my "torture tests". Cause if it fails my warranty isn't going to hold up and there goes $300 down the dustbin.

What makes me (unexplainably) attracted to the LX2 is the UI. Press for 15 lumens and press harder for 200 lumens sounds delicious

That said, the RA 170T which I'm intending to buy is rated to 20m waterproof, is bombproof (I have gone through every inch of henry's website and am convinced). I can also customise it with the sapphire lens, titanium bezel, basically the best of everything which I will probably do. But the UI of the RA, although I don't want to call judgement before I use it, I think I'd prefer the LX2.

And now for the final deciding factor - the RA 170T takes 17670s but the Surefire can only take RCR123s. Terrible runtime.

I might actually buy both, and carry both around as EDCs.
My search for the perfect torch will never end