Perhaps to a CPF user chasing after the latest emitter, then Surefire is indeed falling behind the times. To the average flashlight user, they will not care if the light is using a Lux-I, Lux-III, P4, Q5, R2, Rebel 100, P7 or whatever. Just as an anecdote, I recall elumen8 mentioning in a thread that he saw a Fenix TK11 on sale at a police supply store and he asked the store staff if it had the Q5 or R2 emitter and they asked if that was a reference to Star Wars. Most people when shopping for a flashlight do not care if it has the latest and greatest technology in there. Heck, most people shopping for a light just want one that comes on when you hit the switch. Same thing with building bodies compatible with 18650 Li-Ion cells, again, how much of their target market actually care about that? The majority of people probably do not want to deal with the hassle of using rechargeables, which is why you still see so many AA and AAA alkaline batteries being sold though AA and AAA NiMH rechargeable batteries have been mainstream for years.
I rarely encounter sales staff that have the foggiest clue about what they're selling. It is especially awful at gun shops. I've only ever been in two police supply shops and they were equally bad.
But we're talking about staff, not customers. If customers don't know or care what they're buying why would they pay the extra money for the Surefire in the first place? Then later when they see the Surefire they paid extra for purely out of brand name recognition is outperformed by something else their buddy bought for less that is probably going to be what they buy next time. Plus they won't understand why it performed better than the Surefire so they'll be likely to just assume Surefires are junk and/or all hype.
I don't even need the latest emitter or the most lumens for my working lights. I just need an illumination tool that does the job. The majority of Surefire's stock configurations just don't get the job done for me. Putting a good finish on what is supposed to be a top tier product shouldn't be a lot to ask from them, especially when it's clear there is no rhyme or reason to why they don't do it. If HA black is too much to ask for then how about HA NAT?
Also, has Surefire really fallen behind the times? For example, how many other flashlights out there have optics like the E2DL that can throw so far while still maintaining such a compact head? Most manufacturers who want to create a light with a lot of throw will go for making a larger reflector which adds a lot of bulk to the light. What makes the E2DL so amazing for me is not the amount of light that comes out (I have other lights that produce more output than the E2DL) but that the output is so well focused that it throws so well while still maintaining a head that is 1" in diameter.
I'm not a big E series fan but optics are a good idea. My first LED flashlight had an optic. I bought it at WalMart for $14 7 years ago and still have it. IMO one of the best things they have going right now is their P91 but again it is nothing new and nothing unique.
Who, exactly, are the competitors for Surefire in their target market which is the police / military / law enforcement community? My understanding (and someone else, please correct me if I am wrong) is that Surefire's biggest customer is the US military and can you imagine the US government selecting a non-US based company as a supplier to the US military? This reduces the amount of "competition" by a good amount since I doubt the US government will chose, for example, Fenix or NiteCore to supply flashlights to the US military, even though their products may be considered by many in the CPF community as technologically superior with the latest LEDs, can run off of 18650 cells, has less of a tint lottery, etc.
I don't have a clue how many lights Surefire produces in a year. I do know the full military and police market represents a little less than 1% of the US population. Of that less than 1% most won't have a flashlight or if they do it won't be a Surefire. While some Surefires are issue items and I don't have the exact numbers on how many Surefires are issued, it would be a safe bet that the majority of Surefires owned by military and police personnel are private purchases. They can buy whatever they want.
Besides, they sell the 6P at Lowes. Clearly it is made for general consumption. It's not like I'm talking about one of their Millenium series weapon lights, IR illuminator or helmet light.
What is wrong with being the next Maglite? Considering Maglite is still widely considered by the majority of people in the world as a manufacturer of good quality lights, I would think that Surefire would love to be in that position. A lot of people on CPF still consider Maglites as good flashlights; not the latest technology but it is built to last. Maglites have survived a lot of tough, real world usage.
What's wrong with it is,
The world's finest compact high-intensity flashlights for outdoors, self-defense, military, law enforcement, and general applications. Purchase SureFire products through this web site or from authorized dealers.
Is increasingly untrue. Kind of like their misleading 6P LED runtime statement.
Maglites are ok. There are certainly worse lights you could own. I was a big mini mag fan for a long time. The thing is Maglite used to be top of the heap and now they're just a decent low end metal bodied flashlight. Like Surefire is becoming. Once upon a time cutting edge tactical illumination, now a good but expensive host for somebody else's lamp.
I agree the average user would be better off spending less money and getting better performance elsewhere. The average user is not the target market of Surefire. That is why whenever I see a thread asking for a flashlight recommendation, I usually hold off on recommending a Surefire light unless they state that they are security / police / military / law enforcement in which case they are Surefire's target market.
And yet Surefires in stock configuration are increasingly obsolete for those purposes. I mostly like them for their lego ability and what they can be made into. For that they're awesome and that is in fact why I'm a Surefire user now and not toting a Mini Mag. If the only thing I could squeeze out of my M2 or M952C was P60 performance I wouldn't have ever got them. The P61 is decent, even if it has a short run time it's enough for intermittent use and is actually bright enough to be useful.
That's an interesting story right there. I'd actually seen stock Surefires in action long before I ever bought one, which is why I never bought one. Then one day I got a really good deal on a weapon light that was P60 compatible. The real Surefire P60 it came with was underwhelming but in the course of some research I discovered the P60 drop ins and that is what motivated me to try my first Surefire.
Best of luck. This is not the first thread I have seen about spurring Surefire into action to cater to the whims of CPF and I doubt it will be the last. Still, we can hope...
Please do not get me wrong, I would love to see a 6P-HA and all of the innovations you are asking for (and more) to come from Surefire but I kinda doubt it will happen. :sigh:
Well that's the thing. I like the brand. I'm a fan and that's why I care. It's a bit like watching George Lucas destroy Star Wars. I can even appreciate their sticking to CR123 bodies. I had to make the choice and I stayed with the 16mm/17mm format for my Surefires to avoid the o ring cut problem. They are having other problems though, ones that really don't make sense if they want to remain a top tier flashlight company. Using a low quality finish on their products is a tiny, easily correctable one that would make many happy. I want to see them stay at the top and I want to continue to be interested in the brand. It's a love thing, not a hate thing.
