ARC LS Second SALE Price - 49.99!?!?!?!

[GJW]

Originally posted by Sean:
1. AFAIK their is no way to lock it out while it's in your pocket. (Is this correct?)
2. The switch mechanism has proven to be unreliable by beta testers own accounts of the TSP & in other flashlight brands.
3. Roy noticed a 20% reduction in brightness using his TSP. Was this a isolated case?
4. Going to the TSP is simply exchanging one problem (P-123 failing to make contact and/or crushing batteries) for another (TSP is unreliable in the long term as a clickie)
5. I also think the TSP goes against the Arc philosophy of 'If the light too big to bring with you then it's useless, because you never have it when you need it'. (or something like that).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. More or less correct. You could always remove the battery or the switch itself (the switch completely unscrews from the 123 tailcap rendering it "locked") but that's probably not what you're looking for.
2. A few failures that could all be cured by a simple field-stripping. Not a real big deal as far as I've heard. And again, the switch is user replaceable so if it should fail I'm sure that Arc would be open to replacements.
3. Roy was the only one to report this so I'm thinking isolated case. If not then the 20% is something more measured than observed and since Luxeons vary widely to begin with...
4. The TSP is only a "problem" to some. To most of the testers (and the friends who lust after mine) it's a huge plus. And it is replaceable.
5. The other option of adding a spring will also mean making it longer. The body will have to unscrew far enough to clear the spring if the lock-out capability is to be preserved. If length is going to be added anyway, the clickie seems a worthwhile addition. And there's no reason the clickie couldn't be shortened still. If McGizmo can fit one inside an E2e then there's still hope.

Just my 48 cents.

 

[Termac]

Re: ARC LS Second SALE Price - 49.99!?!?!?! *DELETED*

Post deleted by softhackle

 

[lemlux]

It's been my experience in electronics manufacturing that designs don't get frozen for very long. My contract manufacturing employer frequently incorporates ECOs (Engineering Change Orders) imposed by our OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) customers as the OEM's product evolves for performance enhancement and cost reduction reasons. I've seen 20+ Rev (revision) levels of a product before a replacement new model is released.

The exception to this frequently evolving path is in markets where regulatory bodies require expensive testing and requalification procedures to qualify any changes. For example, the FDA requirements for such changes in Medical electronic devices are so time consuming and costly that very beneficial possible improvements to medical products are delayed for very long periods. Changes are introduced primarily on the higher volume products where the cost effectiveness of the change can be reasonably forecast.

Imagine being an authorized service repair facility where your customer turns in a warranty repair of a Rev B of a product that he wants you to repair and upgrade to Rev R. You have to have the documentation and procedures to fix the warranty work at no charge and the ability to price and perform each upgrade between Rev C and Rev R.

Peter doesn't have too many irons in the fire. He has made an unprecedented market disclosure of his rev level changes. Just think of the fine print documentation on product brochures saying "product specifications subject to change without notice."

I've bought 3 ARC Nichia products and 3 ARC Lumileds products. I've been able to communicate with Peter about quirks of each (in open postings and in private conversations) and have been treated fairly and respectfully. I have neither complaints nor qualms about the process of doing business with ARC in the future.

I personally would find it sad if ARC's current experiences with factory seconds cause Peter to close his Kimono and stop sharing his design evolution issues with us.

 

[Gone Jeepin]

I have been following this forum for a long time before I registered. I have found the ARC threads some of the most interesting. I have become a big ARC fan in the last 6 months and currently own 3

.

Back on topic... Seconds are seconds, I think PG has made a smart business choice in offering the seconds for sale to the DB members. Common sense tells us to not expect a first if buying a second. It has been well documented that the ARC LS is a developing project and so many DB members own pieces of that history and had the opportunity to have input into its development. It is a rare and unique thing. I look forward to watching its developement into the future.

 

[Darell]

For anybody keeping score, Peter has resolved my issue, as I knew he would.

Data point - Don managed to fit the Kroll guts into an E2 because it was *already* long enough to incorporate a switch. Not the case with the Arc. It would seem that a dimple or wave spring could be added, and the length would only have to increase by 1/8" or less. Adding a mechanical switch to the tail will definitely make the light longer.

 

[this_is_nascar]

Originally posted by Termac:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
Peter, as a businessman, I would have hoped that you do and would continue to go down the path that the majority of the public pressures you into. Don't lose track of the fact that it's only the people here on CPF that are ordering the majority of your product. It's the same group of people that have been paying you for a product that's never been "done". Always "in progress.... always "in the works".... always with a "design flaw". People are paying you good money to fund your experiments. Now you don't want to listen to them? Who's going to buy your product? I don't expect the ARC-AAA is going to be able to fund the ARC-LS vision forever.

You have a great concept of a light. I've seen some of them (I actually own several) that are great. Unfortuneatly, I've never had a good feeling that what I get tomorrow is the same quality as what I got today. It's been proven time and time again that the LS has no consistancy between units and I'm not talking about all the expected differences caused by difference between Luxeon Stars. LS1-REV1, LS1-REV2, LS2, LS3..... too many irons in the fire that doesn't allow you to focus on a single quality product. Pick one... one that you're buyers want and work on that only.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The ArcLS project, in a sense, began here at CPF as a collaboration between members and Gransee. I'm sure the ancient threads are still available to document this. Perhaps it is time for that phase to end, but it was great fun. I bought an early ArcLS, not as a way to pay for experiments, but as a way of having a part of something that we all worked to create. This same spirit is still very much alive in the Mods Forum.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You guys are letting your emotions and loyalties get in the way of what I'm saying. A 2nd is expected to work. I know I've been spoiled in the past by getting 2nds that could pass as 1sts, however even a 2nd should work. It should work without sanding/grinding down some componant. It should work without peeling off labels of batteries. It should work without throwing a piece of aluminum foil in there. It should work, as advertised, period.

Now, a $120 1st, is an entirely different story. That sucker should not only work flawlessly, but should look like it's actually gone through some sort of Q/A process. It should also not be released if bugs are known. Bad compartment packs, bad PCB's, flex issues, etc once known should stop the distribution of existing units, even those from the distributors. I catagorize this as the consumer funding an experiment. Look at the message threads where there are still discussions on how the PCB should be built, as an example.

Now, with all that being said, I love the ARC-LS. I have owned many of them and continue to own almost a dozen of mixed 1sts, 2nds, hybrids and LS2s. I will probably continue to purchase them, as ARC gets better and better with the design. Will I still pitch-a-***** if I pay $$$ for a 1st that works or looks like a piece of junk? You're damn right I will. Will I still hold ARC to high standands in producing this (what I consider to be) a overly-high priced light? Of course I will.

With all of that being said, Peter and ARC Flashlight has done right by me each and everytime I've had an issue. Just today, I recieved my replacement to my de-faced LS1-REV2. What a work of art. Perfect beam, cosmedically sound and works with every type of 123-cell that I have.

 

[ledfanfromjuno]

I just received my third arc ls second with 2 AA battery pack. It is beautiful and the beam is pure white. It works smoothly with my kodak 1850 mah nimh; however it only has 1 turn of threading when used with duracell alkalines. This doesn't bother me since I use the kodaks only in it now and I get 2 1/2 full turns of the head before the head will come off the body. My first arc ls is purplish white but brighter, and it is beautiful. My second arc ls needed some touch up by me but now works beautifully, and its beam pattern is in between the purple and white of the other two and in between in brightness to. However, the only disappointing thing was that the second 2AA battery pack was badly corroded, and although I worked on it and lubed it with corrosion block, it is somewhat loose needing an extra umphh to lock the head in the on position. But since I was buying seconds, I'm overjoyed in the overall quality of these little lights compared to all my other lights.

I do have some suggestions for Peter Gransee. I like the new lexan protection for the collimator you're going to implement. My needs for this light are different than many other peoples needs. However, there are many others like me with the same needs so this might help you. I want to carry the light where I can't check on it and where it will be subjected to many bumps; specifically, I want to put it into a manty (tied up sack slung to a mule) or a pannier (bag hanging on mule's side). Because of this the twist cap is nice because it can't come on accidentally and deplete the batteries. If you change the switch keep this need in mind please.
Also, in the wilderness far from all roads where I'll be taking these lights, it would be nice if these arc ls's would be more waterproof and freeze proof. I'll be using them in downpour and snow. In the morning in the tent, everything is coverred in sweaty condensation, and if left outside the sleeping bag the sweat freezes rock hard as happens to leather boots left in the tent but outside the sleeping bag. They have to be cracked and reshaped.

I don't expect much from my seconds, and I'm aware of their design limitations since I openned one's bezel to fix a very dirty bezel and assembly problem (wasn't fully threaded on leaving noticeable gap between collimator and bezel); this was the second arc ls I got, the one with the slight problems that I fixed relatively quickly. So don't get worried. I'm only posting a wish list for future arcs so you will be aware of my needs and others like me. Hopefully, this will help your product to become even better yet, and maybe will help your success to grow even larger in size.

Good luck and I hope your company becomes much more successful.

Thanks for the seconds.

I'm very overjoyed with them. especially after my dissappointment with my 3 led ledtronics aqua green flange drop in replacement bulb for my turtlelite I bought from www.tannersstorefront.com
which turned out to be the cheap dark ultra green ledtronic bulb which I have no use for. It's nice to have a nice store to go to like arc instead.

Arc leaves me feeling good. Tanners ledtronic bulb leaves me with indigestion and ulcers.

 

[hank]

Has anyone tried putting a tiny dab of the conductive lubricant on the end of the battery to make the contact better without tightening down?

 

[PeterM]

Got my Arc SLS yesterday. The finish is all there, though a little blotchy, especially inside the head. The beam seems not quite as bright (subjectively), and a little greener than my blue-white first, but it takes a head to head comparison to really notice. The main thing is the bezel/head seam is not flush, like it could have been cross-threaded at some point before it was fully seated. It's not loose, that's for sure. The beam shape is pretty good though and I could probably clean the gunk out of the head if I wanted. Overall, it's way better than half as good as my Arc first, so I'm satisfied with it, (even though I was hoping for a 500 mA.) Also got my longer replacement 123 packs and they seem to work fine with RS and BDYusa batteries. Thanks Peter.

 

[Eric_M]

I received my two yesterday. Other than a few very small scratches and a slight diference in anodizing color they look fine to me. Of course I'm not as occularly precise (means I don't know what the heck to look for) as most of you when it comes to beam centering and color since I'm just getting into this LED thing. I added some Loc-Tite Silicone Grease to the threads and o-ring and it is as smooth as ever. It is amazing what that grease will do for lights with o-rings. It is almost "hydraulic" feeling if that describes it right. Very smooth and even turning.

I like it.

Eric

 

[rodmeister]

What went wrong with the $49.95 seconds was the lack of information. We buyers should have known that the $49.95 second would be less pristine than the almost perfect $70.00 seconds, but in our excitement, no one thought of that - we just saw a one-time great bargain.

The $49.95 second is worth that, given the $120 price of a factory first. But to avoid dissapointment we should have been told the last batch of seconds would have more serious defects.

"Water under the bridge," and I've been taught to be solution oriented. Why not use a simple grading system to avoid misunderstanding? The near-perfect $70.00 seconds would be clearly advertised as a class "A" second, "with minor blemishes, beam centering problems, coloration..etc." The $49.95 lights would be class "B" seconds, "with substantial cosmetic defects."

Thus buyers would know what they are getting and the risks they are taking for their money.

 

[soa]

"The $49.95 lights would be class "B" seconds, "with substantial cosmetic defects.""

Mine had *a* ding.
FGS, it was a second. I'm more than happy with it.

If you want first quality - buy a first.
Incidentally, t_i_n, I doubt CPF is funding this on their own, Peter is selling these in Europe..., too.

 

[ledled]

Just got my 2 SLS 2 days ago. One is bright bluish-white with no cosmetic defects.
However, the other was terribly DIM. Dimmer than all my other rev1 SLS using 1AA power pack!!

It's on it's way back for an exchange.

 

[Tomas]

OK, I'm one of the proud owners of a $50 second. Yes, it has a few minor flaws, but it IS a second. Just to show the type of flaws:

Some difference in the gloss/color density/darkness of the finish between the bezel ring and the remainder of the flashlight: So what?

Very minor chips/nicks in the finish (bare metal) at the very end of the head cylinder (opposite end from the bezel): So what?

Odd swirls (thin finish) on closed end of 123 pack: So what?

Odd chunk out of the "reflector" edge near the bezel (inside): Uhhhh, OK, I guess.

No chemcote on inside of 123 pack: Poor QC, but I can live with that.

Battery plastic sheath drags on bottom of moat: So far not a problem, may become one with different cells.

Beam color from blue/white center to green surround: So?

Minor off-center hotspot in beam: So?

There are also good points.

Very bright, usable, even beam.

Center "spot" is absolutely centered.

Mechanical fit, excellent.

Operation, excellent.

Usefullness, excellent.

Is the flashlight perfect? No.

Are there some design/engineering details that need fixing? Yes.

Can I see changes I would like to have made? Of course.

Does it meet the published criteria for an Arc-LS second? Yes.

Am I a satisfied customer? Yes!

Will I buy a first? Eventually, assuming the problems are sorted out to my satisfaction. Right now all Arc-LS's are beta test units.

Would I recommend the Arc-LS to others? Not yet.

(Would I recommend the Arc AAA to others? Yes, and have many times.)

Am I an anal-retentive engineer with 55+ years experience being a curmudgeon? Yeah, that's me. *sigh*

 

[Pierce the Night]

Beautifully put, Tomas.

Can't wait for my LS factory-second to turn up.

Pierce.

 

[dark star]

As I posted in another thread, I just got 2 of the $50 seconds and they are great!

 

[Light-Headed]

Originally posted by Tomas:
Odd chunk out of the "reflector" edge near the bezel (inside): Uhhhh, OK, I guess.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that this is normal....at least for some of the Arc LS lights. On my LS's, it looks like the reflector was manufactured with a small squarish indent toward the outside edge of the reflector.....just under the clear protective lens.

 

[hank]

I see the little notch in the plastic on both my LS and my BadBoy -- figured it's notched for a key that keeps the plastic from spinning on axis while it is being drilled, shaped and polished. My 'second' arrived today, "First Run #1806."

A few hours later in the evening, my wife and I were down the street at a neighbor's home, and she wanted to try out the piano -- set up sheet music, leaned in and couldn't read it in the dim light, looked around and said "I don't want to turn on the overhead, but there's no ...

"OH! THAT's NICE!"

From five or six feet back over her shoulder, the LS spot lit the whole page of sheet music well enough that I could follow along and move the beam just as she was ready to look over to the second page.

That's nice. Thanks to everyone at Arc.

 

[RailLight]

Originally posted by rodmeister:
What went wrong with the $49.95 seconds was the lack of information. We buyers should have known that the $49.95 second would be less pristine than the almost perfect $70.00 seconds, but in our excitement, no one thought of that - we just saw a one-time great bargain.

The $49.95 second is worth that, given the $120 price of a factory first. But to avoid dissapointment we should have been told the last batch of seconds would have more serious defects.

"Water under the bridge," and I've been taught to be solution oriented. Why not use a simple grading system to avoid misunderstanding? The near-perfect $70.00 seconds would be clearly advertised as a class "A" second, "with minor blemishes, beam centering problems, coloration..etc." The $49.95 lights would be class "B" seconds, "with substantial cosmetic defects."

Thus buyers would know what they are getting and the risks they are taking for their money.[/QUOTE

 

[RailLight]

not so sure this is true in all cases. I have a $70.00 and a $50.00 SLS and the $50.00 one is far superior to the more expensive one. I think it must be a "luck of the draw" situation.