AW RCR123A and cold weather

[WildChild]

Is it possible that cold weather could make an AW RCR123A fail? I bring my E2D outside with me for about 20 minutes without using it last week at a temperature of -15C (5F). Came back home and put it back with the the remaining of my SF lights. When I wanted to use it this week, it didn't light up. I double checked everything, the bulb and the switch were all OK and the batteries gave a voltage reading of 4.13V. I tried my spare set and the bulb light up without any problem. Is it possible the PCB failed with the cold temperature?

Thanks

 

[SilverFox]

Hello WildChild,

Yes it is possible, but I don't know how common that is.

Tom

 

[Morelite]

If I understand correctly, you didn't use it in the cold then it failed to light after being in the warm and the batteries where at 4.13v? If the PCB failed shouldn't you get a voltage reading of 0 ?

 

[andi555]

I putted out my Dereelight C2H (with AW Li-ion rechargeables) in the cold (about 0° Celcius) for about 30 minutes.

When I tried to turn on the light in the boost mode, the low voltage protection cutted off within 4 seconds.

It seems these cells are not designed for high current in cold weather conditions.

I will try it with those AW IMR16340. Li-Mn cells seems to be more cold weather resistant than Li-Co.

 

[StarHalo]

No rechargeables in very hot or very cold conditions

 

[WildChild]

It seems the PCB didn't fail. In my set, one is still good as it will light up my E1E with a LF bulb. The other won't. Both read 4.13V with no load. The good one gives 4.03V under a 100 mA load and the bad one 3.93V under the same load. So the chemistry failed? As I said, the light wasn't used during the time it was outside. It was in a bag, and it was cold when I came back inside.

 

[1pt21]

No rechargeables in very hot or very cold conditions

Is it bad for them, or does the cold just affect the cells performance until they warm up?

I've got an 18650 riding along in my car duty light and it's been COLD here lately.

Thanks!


--Paul

 

[StarHalo]

Is it bad for them, or does the cold just affect the cells performance until they warm up?

Generally speaking, primaries simply outperform rechargables when it comes to extreme conditions. It's not a good idea to take chances on a flashlight that will be the one most likely used in an emergency situation.

 

[WildChild]

Generally speaking, primaries simply outperform rechargables when it comes to extreme conditions. It's not a good idea to take chances on a flashlight that will be the one most likely used in an emergency situation.

Yes, but is it bad for the cells or they will shoud come back to their normal performance as soon as they warm up? Mines has been warm for over one week.

 

[StarHalo]

I don't know of any cold stress testing that's been done on RCRs (any volunteers?), but the idea is that as you approach a battery's cold temperature threshold, it gets very unreliable. Alkaline batteries usually begin to slow/fail at around 0 degrees, and will work again once warmed, but no one's ever quantified the amount of damage cold does to the lattice/structure of the cell itself - a badly damaged alkaline will merely leak, but that's certainly not the case with a Li-Ion..

 

[hank]

I do snow camping and alkalines will be pretty weak in any cold weather by the time you want to put on gloves (and at that point your hands quit warming the device and it goes down real fast!

So will any rechargeable (reading through long winter nights on a Palm Pilot or newer PDA for example is a problem; my old Palm IIIxe takes lithium AAA cells which work fine below freezing, though the screen can get a bit slow!)

I rely on the Energizer lithium primaries now; used to buy the expensive lithium C and D cells years ago for flashlights from a mountaineering supply for the same purpose.

The little flat-pack handwarmers sold for hunters also can help (they're just iron powder, packed with an accelerant so it 'rusts' fast enough to get mildly warm when exposed to air).

 

[Justin Case]

The typically cited operating temperature range for consumer Li-ion cells is -20C to +60C. I could believe that condensation caused the protection PCB to fail.

 

[WildChild]

The typically cited operating temperature range for consumer Li-ion cells is -20C to +60C. I could believe that condensation caused the protection PCB to fail.

Finally the PCB didn't fail. It seems the chemistry failed as the internal resistance increased a lot. If I put a 100 mA load, the voltage drops at 3.93V from 4.13V while a good one will drop to around 4.03V. But this is a sudden death. These RCR123A have at most 10-12 cycles on them.

 

[StarHalo]

Well now we have that bit of data on what 5 F temps do to a Li-Ion lattice

Sorry about your cell, Wild