Bizarre & Horrifying Maine Shooting

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Why is this thread about a murderous rampage turning into an argument about which gun is the best?

There aren't any conductors on board.

A coworker was telling me yesterday he thought when the guy was checked into a mental institution the gubment should have confiscated his guns. I do not agree with that and told him so. Bad precedent, which is why in my view red flag laws are no bueno.

Perhaps it is a good idea to keep someone IN a mental institution longer than he was when that someone had threatened to attack an Army Reserve Base.

 

[pnwoutdoors]

Perhaps it is a good idea to keep someone IN a mental institution longer than he was when that someone had threatened to attack an Army Reserve Base.

One would think that with a witnessed/documented threat to many, it'd be an iron-clad case for indictment (and likely conviction) for X number of counts of "terroristic threatening." Heck, with the gov't behind the accusations, it ought to have been a slam dunk to bring a degree of validity behind an indictment that might otherwise not exist. But they didn't even go with that. Went to the in-and-out facility, for all the good that did.

Once was, in the U.S. there were numerous asylums and psych hospitals where people in serious crisis (or making serious threats) could be handled, treated, and kept from society until there was clearly no further threat. Not anymore, it seems, at least in that guy's state of residence.

I suspect he won't allow himself to be taken alive, no matter how many he drags with him.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

One would think that with a witnessed/documented threat to many, it'd be an iron-clad case for indictment (and likely conviction) for X number of counts of "terroristic threatening." Heck, with the gov't behind the accusations, it ought to have been a slam dunk to bring a degree of validity behind an indictment that might otherwise not exist. But they didn't even go with that. Went to the in-and-out facility, for all the good that did.

It's almost enough to make ya wonder if the powers that be wanted another reason for the great disarmament. NO! That's just crazy talk.

Once was, in the U.S. there were numerous asylums and psych hospitals where people in serious crisis (or making serious threats) could be handled, treated, and kept from society until there was clearly no further threat. Not anymore, it seems, at least in that guy's state of residence.

Whatever happened to those institutions?

I suspect he won't allow himself to be taken alive, no matter how many he drags with him.

Remember - Shoot on sight?

 

[orbital]

It's been that way since Archi left.

My point is a thread about a murderous rampage turning into folks arguing over which gun is best.

+

It started with a self defense post, concealed carry & it went from there.
could be seen as very bad taste for what just happened, I get it.

If a responsible citizen out there has been thinking about getting a firearm for self defense,
I'll say, look into a 9mm pistol with a barrel of at least 4"

Know what your dominant eye is.
Make certain the sights are dialed in, they may need a slight adjustment,,, its common (a rear sight off by 1mm is massive)

practice a few times a year.

 

[knucklegary]

Whatever happened to those institutions?

CA closed state psych hospitals up in the 60's and 70's. Patients spread out across state lines. Some moved to Oregon and became politicians.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

*Disclaimer: I have not researched this.

My impression, as a lay person, and simply going off of what I have heard, is that back in the 1970's or so, Geraldo Rivera did an expose on a psychiatric hospital, I think in NY or NJ, and uncovered a "snake pit", a psychiatric hospital that simply drugged and restrained the patients, and left them in their excrement for hours, basically, inhuman, unprofessional treatment. This expose got a lot of publicity, and began a movement to shut down psychiatric facilities nationwide. Then the thinking was that most mental patients could be treated with pharmaceuticals in an out-patient manner. So now we have mental patients out here in the wild with us, talking to the air, (you might imagine they are using a Bluetooth, but on closer examination, no earpiece) and other strange and bizarre behavior. Paired with the drunks and drug abusers, we have a real mess of humanity in the streets, everywhere. Couple that with the medical crisis, and you have a recipe for disaster when these patients can't get their meds and no supervision to make sure they take them.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

One of them became the governor of The Great State of Washington!

 

[idleprocess]

My point is a thread about a murderous rampage turning into folks arguing over which gun is best.

I mean, I'm sure there are many other messageboards that specialize in the latter subject.

 

[jtr1962]

Once was, in the U.S. there were numerous asylums and psych hospitals where people in serious crisis (or making serious threats) could be handled, treated, and kept from society until there was clearly no further threat. Not anymore, it seems, at least in that guy's state of residence.

Whatever happened to those institutions?

Most of the answer is this:

*Disclaimer: I have not researched this.

My impression, as a lay person, and simply going off of what I have heard, is that back in the 1970's or so, Geraldo Rivera did an expose on a psychiatric hospital, I think in NY or NJ, and uncovered a "snake pit", a psychiatric hospital that simply drugged and restrained the patients, and left them in their excrement for hours, basically, inhuman, unprofessional treatment. This expose got a lot of publicity, and began a movement to shut down psychiatric facilities nationwide. Then the thinking was that most mental patients could be treated with pharmaceuticals in an out-patient manner. So now we have mental patients out here in the wild with us, talking to the air, (you might imagine they are using a Bluetooth, but on closer examination, no earpiece) and other strange and bizarre behavior. Paired with the drunks and drug abusers, we have a real mess of humanity in the streets, everywhere. Couple that with the medical crisis, and you have a recipe for disaster when these patients can't get their meds and no supervision to make sure they take them.

I'll also add that there was stuff going on in these hospitals straight out of the Spanish inquisition, like lobotomies or electroconvulsive "therapy". We had a relative in one of these places during that time frame. Honestly, he didn't need to be there. His problem was mostly having a father who constantly berated him. The results of this manifested itself as an eating disorder (he was over 400 pounds at times), plus antisocial behavior. They didn't do ECT or a lobotomy, but they had him are drugs which basically turned him into a zombie. It was heartbreaking to see. Later on he ended up in an assisted living place. Passed away at only 62, mostly as a result of the physical effects of being morbidly obese most of his life.

Part of the problem is there was no mechanism to ensure these patients take their meds. Also, the meds have had unintended side effects on some people, making them more violent. Or for others the pill just sapped them of energy and life, so of course they didn't want to take it. There's probably big money for anyone who can develop drugs to treat mental illness without major side effects. And even bigger money if we can have some sort of implantable drug delivery system so the person gets their dose every day.

BTW, today's nursing homes aren't a whole lot better than the psychiatric hospitals of the 1970s. The thing is with them making big money they have the political influence to avoid being investigated and shut down.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

It's been that way since Archi left.

My point is a thread about a murderous rampage turning into folks arguing over which gun is best.

I think it is because we can't do anything about the situation, other than be properly armed in the event the perp Card shows up, or another nutjob pops up in our presence.

What would you rather have us talk about?

 

[SCEMan]

CA closed state psych hospitals up in the 60's and 70's. Patients spread out across state lines. Some moved to Oregon and became politicians.

Some moved farther east...

 

[ilikeguns40]

Some moved farther east...
View attachment 51488

Im in PA and I hate this guy

 

[Monocrom]

I'm not convinced he (@Monocrom) owns or shoots guns.

A fun debate regarding 9 vs. 10 is one thing.
But I've been on CPF long enough that most of the other Regulars know I'm not blowing smoke up their Backsides when a discussion regarding firearms in general comes up. Yes, I live in NYC. Yes, it is very difficult to acquire firearms legally within city limits. But, it is not impossible. A clean criminal record, a great deal of patience, and investing a lot of money in hiring a lawyer who knows every facet of firearms laws here; helps a lot. Including how to properly fill out the forms.

That's all I'll say regarding that one aspect of my life. If you don't believe me, oh well; not like I'll lose sleep over it. BTW, I also believe that the .9mm is superior to the .10mm in quite a few ways. I just acknowledge the fact that in the 1990s it was nearly dead, and now it is an extremely popular caliber. That's all.

 

[orbital]

+

The 10mm was dropped because some women in law enforcement found it too powerful, their accuracy became an issue.

 

[Monocrom]

+

The 10mm was dropped because some women in law enforcement found it too powerful, their accuracy became an issue.

Instead of disqualifying some women from becoming police officers, departments unfortunately lowered standards. I mean, if an officer can't handle the recoil from a .10mm, how is she going to handle a 250 pound man who decides to physically fight her because he doesn't want to go back to jail? Not even a tragedy waiting to happen. It has happened. Will continue to do so as well. Nothing wrong with hiring female police officers. Just hire the ones who can actually pass the physical requirements for ALL police officers.

 

[DRW]

The 10mm was dropped because some women in law enforcement found it too powerful, their accuracy became an issue.

I don't think it was just women LEO, it's a handful to shoot well.

 

[orbital]

I don't think it was just women LEO, it's a handful to shoot well.

+

I have this exact 1911


My Springfield in 10mm is slightly mellower ,, slide/spring balance

 

[alpg88]

A fun debate regarding 9 vs. 10 is one thing.
But I've been on CPF long enough that most of the other Regulars know I'm not blowing smoke up their Backsides when a discussion regarding firearms in general comes up. Yes, I live in NYC. Yes, it is very difficult to acquire firearms legally within city limits. But, it is not impossible. A clean criminal record, a great deal of patience, and investing a lot of money in hiring a lawyer who knows every facet of firearms laws here; helps a lot. Including how to properly fill out the forms.

I live in nyc too, you do not need a lawyer, actually from what i've heard 1 police plaza does not like it, it is better to fill out the application yourself, go to licensing, nypd online, create an account, and follow step by step instruction, It is actually a lot easier now than ever before, you do not have to go there, only for fingerprints if you get approved, you can do rifle and shotgun permit online too, do not have to go to 120-55 queens blvd, anymore, do it from your home. they issue carry licenses too now, without you needling to show a necessity. Funny they only allow black guns for carry, idk why. You do not even have to bring a gun for inspection anymore, just send few good quality pic.
As far as 9 vs 10, 10 is the kicker, 9 is a bare minimum needed to stop, nypd uses .40s&w as well, best of both world,

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Im in PA and I hate this guy

I'm clear in Kansas, and I hate him too.

 

[alpg88]

Instead of disqualifying some women from becoming police officers, departments unfortunately lowered standards. I mean, if an officer can't handle the recoil from a .10mm, how is she going to handle a 250 pound man who decides to physically fight her because he doesn't want to go back to jail? Not even a tragedy waiting to happen. It has happened. Will continue to do so as well. Nothing wrong with hiring female police officers. Just hire the ones who can actually pass the physical requirements for ALL police officers.

Have you tried 10mm? the gun jumps much more than 9, and follow up shots are not as rapid and accurate, no difference for the 1st shot. glock used to make them with ported barrels, which makes the muzzle jump a bit less, but not anymore.