California Driver$--Be Careful...

[BB]

Just want to let everyone who drives in California know that there has been a huge change in traffic citation policies across the state in the last year or two...

From somebody I know who just attended Traffic School, California in the last year or so has gone from ~1.xx million Traffic Tickets (~2006) to approximately 4.7 million (~2007). They are doing this by strict enforcement of the California Vehicle code...

Changes include tickets for going 1-2 MPH over the speed limit (i.e., 26 in a 25 zone, 67 in a 65 zone--up until a year or so ago, there was a 5 mph buffer), if a pedestrian is anywhere in a crosswalk--cars must stop, if the car could have stopped before entering an intersection on the yellow but did not--a ticket (i.e., entering an intersection on the yellow is no longer an automatic OK), etc.

This is second hand information so I don't have all of the details--but state and local government is obviously out to get the driver$ here.

-Bill

 

[gorn]

Traffic citation policies are set at the local level not by the State. It depends on each city as to how laws are enforced. I've seen nothing to suggest that there has been a State wide move to enforce the laws strictly. There have always been officers that would cite you for 1 mph over.

 

[jtr1962]

Set speed limits at the 95th percentile as any decent transportation engineering text says they should be. That solves the problem of excessive numbers of speeding tickets, even when ticketing for only 1 mph over.

Also, I would think such a ticket would be fairly easy to beat. Car speedometers can be off as much as 20%. That's 13 mph at 65 mph. I don't know the percentage error of radar. Even if radar is dead accurate, that still means the police shouldn't even think of giving a speeding ticket until you're over 78 mph in a 65 mph zone.

 

[jzmtl]

Not gona work, they'll simply say it's your responsbility to keep vehicle equiptment in working order.

If the judge is not wearing the same pants as the ahole cop, he'd toss the 1 or 2 over ticket if you go to court. But there's always the instance of everyone's in on it to make money.

 

[dudemar]

Set speed limits at the 95th percentile as any decent transportation engineering text says they should be. That solves the problem of excessive numbers of speeding tickets, even when ticketing for only 1 mph over.

Also, I would think such a ticket would be fairly easy to beat. Car speedometers can be off as much as 20%. That's 13 mph at 65 mph. I don't know the percentage error of radar. Even if radar is dead accurate, that still means the police shouldn't even think of giving a speeding ticket until you're over 78 mph in a 65 mph zone.

I thought it was the 85th percentile.

 

[jtr1962]

Not gona work, they'll simply say it's your responsbility to keep vehicle equiptment in working order.

It has nothing to do with keeping your equipment in working order. From the factory speedometers can be way off. And even if they are calibrated, changes in tire diameter from temperature or wear will throw them off. Granted, most speedometers are within 10%, but that's still a 6 or 7 mph margin at expressway speeds. Now if vehicles had to equipped with ground-sensing radar-based speedometers (similar to what the NYC subway now uses), then they can use smaller margins of error.

I thought it was the 85th percentile.

It's the 85th percentile for local streets, 85th or 90th percentile (forgot which) for two-lane highways, and 95th percentile for limited-access expressways, all rounded up to the nearest 5 mph.

 

[daveman]

Not gona work, they'll simply say it's your responsbility to keep vehicle equiptment in working order.

If the judge is not wearing the same pants as the ahole cop, he'd toss the 1 or 2 over ticket if you go to court. But there's always the instance of everyone's in on it to make money.

Yes siree, that is absolutely correct. Most cops will not cite at less than 5 mph over the speed limit as that would be too "challengable" for the driver; most judges will toss out tickets that cite at less than 3 mph over the speed limit. But then again, with continued weakening of the economy, particularly the housing market, local and state governments are scrambling for ANY extra income they can find...we would be wise to keep this in mind.

 

[nerdgineer]

There is one useful provision of CA law which defines a "speed trap". It says basically that the speed limit on a stretch of non-local road must be justified by a traffic survey (at the 85 %ile of the surveyed speeds) or else the speed limit is invalid. Might help you if you get tagged by radar someday (might not, too...).

 

[dano]

Yes siree, that is absolutely correct. Most cops will not cite at less than 5 mph over the speed limit as that would be too "challengable" for the driver; most judges will toss out tickets that cite at less than 3 mph over the speed limit. But then again, with continued weakening of the economy, particularly the housing market, local and state governments are scrambling for ANY extra income they can find...we would be wise to keep this in mind.

The income from citations is, for the most part, a myth. Most local municipalities lose money on citations, mainly through processing costs, personnel costs, etc.

Speeding isn't always related to how fast the driver is going in relation to the posted speed limit. I've written speeding tickets where the driver was going slower than the posted speed limit, but was driving too fast for the conditions present.

 

[adamlau]

9 MPH over the limit (except when crossing through school and construction zones) is usually good to go across Los Angeles County. But don't quote me on that one as I tend to drive at, or below posted speed limits

 

[jzmtl]

It has nothing to do with keeping your equipment in working order. From the factory speedometers can be way off. And even if they are calibrated, changes in tire diameter from temperature or wear will throw them off. Granted, most speedometers are within 10%, but that's still a 6 or 7 mph margin at expressway speeds. Now if vehicles had to equipped with ground-sensing radar-based speedometers (similar to what the NYC subway now uses), then they can use smaller margins of error.

You are making a big mistake, you are applying logic to law.

The income from citations is, for the most part, a myth. Most local municipalities lose money on citations, mainly through processing costs, personnel costs, etc.

Speeding isn't always related to how fast the driver is going in relation to the posted speed limit. I've written speeding tickets where the driver was going slower than the posted speed limit, but was driving too fast for the conditions present.

Not really. I can't remember which town was it (I want to say rome, NY), but there was a highway pass through town and they were giving out so many citations it generated as much as 60% of town revenue, and 30% of the town works for the PD. It was so bad the state passed a new law to make them stop doing it.

Also the city of Montreal made over $100M in in tickets last year, it was in the news a while ago.

 

[dano]

You are making a big mistake, you are applying logic to law.



Not really. I can't remember which town was it (I want to say rome, NY), but there was a highway pass through town and they were giving out so many citations it generated as much as 60% of town revenue, and 30% of the town works for the PD. It was so bad the state passed a new law to make them stop doing it.

Also the city of Montreal made over $100M in in tickets last year, it was in the news a while ago.

Maybe, but let's breakdown the fines and costs:

Average fine for a moving violation is about $350.00 (for a red light violation, as a starting point). Now pay the following people:

--Traffic Court judge
--Court Clerk
--Court Security (Deputy Sheriff)
--Data input and research
--Ticket printing and processing
--Citing Officer if the ticket is contested (just for this, I'm mandated 3 hours minimum in court time at O/T rates which equates to about $80/hour)

If the driver is eligible and chooses traffic school, the fine is reduced. If the driver contests the citation and wins, there is no fine. If the driver contests and loses, the fine is usually reduced. I think the state will take 87% of the collected fine--if the fine is ever collected, as an inability to pay is very common, and the driver will choose to do "community service."

 

[jzmtl]

When you have all those people work on a couple of tickets only yes, the labor cost per ticket is high. But when the city give out so many it takes a year and half delay just to contest the ticket (as is the case here)the per ticket cost is much lower. The numbers doesn't lie, they do make money off it, a lot of money.

 

[scott.cr]

For a few years I was driving a Civic with lowered suspension and a bolt-on aftermarket exhaust. Got popped constantly by the cops for "modified exhaust" and "headlights too low." It was a crock on both counts, I was never found guilty in court. BUT, I still had to pay a $10 administrative fee per court visit, plus $40 to the California BAR for the exhaust noise test. The BAR gives you a noise cert at the end of the test, but the police never considered it when citing me.

 

[AndyTiedye]

Maybe, but let's breakdown the fines and costs:

Average fine for a moving violation is about $350.00 (for a red light violation, as a starting point). Now pay the following people:

--Traffic Court judge
--Court Clerk
--Court Security (Deputy Sheriff)
--Data input and research
--Ticket printing and processing
--Citing Officer if the ticket is contested (just for this, I'm mandated 3 hours minimum in court time at O/T rates which equates to about $80/hour)

See, now you have provided employment for half the town. (It isn't a very big town).

 

[daveman]

Maybe, but let's breakdown the fines and costs:

Average fine for a moving violation is about $350.00 (for a red light violation, as a starting point). Now pay the following people:

--Traffic Court judge
--Court Clerk
--Court Security (Deputy Sheriff)
--Data input and research
--Ticket printing and processing
--Citing Officer if the ticket is contested (just for this, I'm mandated 3 hours minimum in court time at O/T rates which equates to about $80/hour)

If the driver is eligible and chooses traffic school, the fine is reduced. If the driver contests the citation and wins, there is no fine. If the driver contests and loses, the fine is usually reduced..."

So if no citation is given out, the city doesn't have to issue pay checks to these people?

The tickets are, and quote me on this, will increasingly become an indispensable source of revenue for municipalities nationwide for the next decade, all brought about by the misfortunes of declining propery taxes and other taxes related to real estate.

I once again recommend everybody to drive with excessive caution in years to come.

 

[65535]

Only thing I think I have ever seen anyone in my area of Socal ever get pulled over for is running a stop sign or a red light (very common along with speeding 30mph over the speedlimit)

 

[fieldops]

If it can really make money, watch out. I always think of that "Dukes of Hazard" show where they had portable speed limit signs and fire hydrants just so they can ring you up.

 

[VidPro]

speaking of california traffic laws.

now you can drive barefoot, but not with flipflops. before you couldnt drive barefoot, and had to have shoes or even flip-flops on for safety reasons, they analised how a flipflop can get caught up between the pedals, and changed the law.

If your windshield wipers are on (rain) then your lights have to be on. another new one.

Blocking an intersection, is now a problem, if your stuck in horrible traffic, and you get the Green light, but CANT make it to the other side, because everything is clogged up, and you are stuck in the middle of the intersection, they can burn ya. This is of course a terrible one, because you got 5 people behind you who are going to keel you if you dont get IN the intersection, even if you cant get across it.

and, the driving TEST now is very explicit about the speed limit is the speed limit, reguardless of everyone else speeding around you, so if you get that question on the test, dont be fooled by the "flow of traffic" stuff, or you will get that question wrong.

 

[tygger]

Forget about moving violations, the real money is in parking tickets. All they need to do is post more 'street cleaning' signs, paint more red zones, install more 1hr. and under meters, and thats millions a year right there. To this day, every time I hear that sweeper I panic for a split second trying to remember which side of the street I parked on.